Real whiff punish in SFV


…I mean, so many guide/ tutorials talk about a neutral game situation where both of players can move back and forth: player one walk forward, then walk back , opponent normal whiffed, punish.
Ok , but this never happens in real matches in street fighter V.
99,9% of the whiff punish are someway induced at the end of a frame trap or after a single normal blocked, either in advantage/disadvantage on block situations : for example, Ryu clp Shp on block from max distance, than crouch back for an istant, if ken tries cr mk than whiffs and Ryu punish with sweep.
Or Ryu clp cmp on block , microstep back, after the adv on block of cmp, Ken whiffs cr mk, than punish.
In the neutral game where both of players can change distances any time is almost impossibile because whiff punish is knowledge of what button at what distance the opponent will land, but if the opponent can vary distances any time we can only try placed moves/prediction moves in the hope of stuffing an opponent button .

Only after a situation where we know exactly for a bunch of frames that the opponent will not move his pg ( again , after a block situation , rarely in corner ) we can setup a whiff punish . Imho

What do you think guys


yeah pretty much u do a block string that has pushback on it


I think you should see more high level matches and work on your footsies.


dude check out yamadataros chun, his whole gameplan is playing footsies and whiffpunishing


I don’t think so, can you give me your point of view about neutral game whiff punishes so I can change my opinion?


[quote=“nozarex, post:4, topic:182271”]

dude check out yamadataros chun, his whole gameplan is playing footsies and whiffpunishing


thanks but that proves my opinion . Almost the whiff punishes are induced by an action , string, or normal on block.

0:13 = after a tech throw yamadataro knows that any normal of necalli whiffs so he waits that sweep and then punish
0:16 = chun sweep on block , necalli whiffs again , punish with c mk
0:33 = chun make whiff necalli sweep because he’s in the corner, he can’t go back, so yamadataro knows exactly the range where to land that Shp.
…and so on

any other attempt from neutral ( both of players can move back and forth ) comes with a placed normal in the hope of stuff something, there’s no whiff punish in these situations imho.


Well, the fact that walk speeds suck in SF5 contribute to what you’re saying. Older games with faster walk speeds were more conducive to this kind of play, but in SF it’s much harder to do this kind of thing because walk speeds are so slow.


They are harder than in previous games but totally possible. Cammys punish with st. HP all day long, same as Mikas with st. MP and same for many other characters. With Laura I find myself whiff punishing with st./cr. HP in many situations.
Ryu has a harder time punishing simply because his normals are stubby and he gets nothing off his longest range pokes.

Also the examples you give show that you don’t understand very well whiff punishing in general. 0:33 is a perfect example of whiff punishing in neutral, as he had to put himself in the right position to bait the sweep, make it whiff and punish it with st. HP. He also whiff punishes the sweep with cr. MK (0:17), b+MK with st. HK (1:35), st. MP with st. HP (8:17). The video is a bad example however because the youtuber picked mainly matches where she was always on top of her opponent and there was almost no neutral at all.


0:33 and 0:17 like I said, are “setup” whiff punish , the opponent doesn’t move (first example after throw pushback, second in corner ) so chun can stand at the right distance to make whiff that normal because he knows the opponent position and probably the most common normal he can land from that distance ,so there’s a pure reaction .
8:17 is the only whiff punish in true neutral situation in ten minutes of video , but is really character dependent ( chun li st hp is godlike for this purpose ) , most of the cast can’t punish a normal that way.

I think that 90% of whiff punish in sfv are someway induced by a block situation because you know opponent position and probably the best poke he can land from that position , you made a situation where the opponent can throw only 1/2 normal , with the help of a fixed position that YOU spaced with normals pushback or a corner situation.
10% in true neutral game (no corner no block situation ) but is really character dependent ( chun li st hp and a few others ) .
Other whiff punish situations from true neutral game come from a read, not a reaction , because the variable of position (opponent can move anytime back and forth) can’t give you the opportunity to react in time or expect a precise normal, so most of the time you go back and forth and press buttons ( st hp os spiral arrow for example ) but is a casual whiff punish , you don’t react , you think that he could press that normal.

Sorry for my english guys


You think but you’re wrong. All whiff punishes implies such setups. You just don’t get the fundamentals of it.


Ok I’m open to dialogue with a more experienced player I suppose. I explained my point of view and I analyzed a casual video . Even chun li that is more footsies oriented 90% of time whiffpunished in that video the way I explained.
Can you explain better where I’m wrong? Thanks


What He’s trying to say is that SFV plays like MKX minus the overly long juggle and stupid vortex elements it is. Theres a lot less fluidity, because everything is being played off of commitment options that either worked or didn’t.


What can I explain more? I already told you that EVERY whiff punish is in reality a setup and you keep saying that she isn’t whiff punishing because she’s setting things up… Whiff punishing is not just “he pressed button A, I press button B”, it implies to 1. choose a button you want to whiff punish with 2. wait for the opponent to do something at a specific range 3. position yourself so to make him press buttons that you can punish on whiff. Denying that the punished sweep is a whiff punish because the enemy is in a corner position is just being oblivious of the entire work of positioning that lies behind whiff punishing.

I get it, but it is just wrong. Whiff punish exists in this game, it is just harder than in other games. Every person saying this game has no whiff punishing just likes talking through hyperboles.


You don’t just whiff punish, you have to proactively nudge your opponent into whiffing a normal at a time and space when you’re ready to react. Whiff punishing random normals won’t happen unless you’re lucky with an empty buffer, the reaction window is too slim to catch unpredictable stray pokes. When you can use your movement and pick up on tendencies, then it’s a good time to go for a whiff punish. So in a way, the situations in neutral are almost exactly like the example you mentioned, but without having to use blockstrings to coax out a whiff. It can be nothing but movement, walking forward and poking to nudge your opponent to attempt an interrupt, whiffing a jab ect. Replace “blockstring” with any of those examples and it will be successful depending on player tendency.

This video is important for correctly framing your understanding of whiff punishment too


Whiff punishing is always about making your opponent press the wrong button at the wrong time so you can punish it. This is either through some movement or a button press in neutral (e.g. slight step forward or hitting light buttons to bait a poke in neutral), or leaving gaps in your blockstrings (aka frame trapping).


@OceanMachine , @MochaLatte , @d3v , I agree with all of you ( I saw juicebox video and others ) my English don’t help myself .

I’m saying , like all of you , that all examples I mentioned are whiff punish , real whiff punish.

I’m just talking about how often we see a type of whiff punish .

I’m saying that " make your opponent press the wrong button and punish " when he’s in block stun , after a tech throw, or in the corner, is MORE COMMON in sfv and we see often these type of whiff punish, because your opponent has less options or is stuck in a precise position for a few frames and so you’re more sure he will press that button.

This is an example of what I’m saying , the most common whiff punish situations

More rarely ( in sfv ) we see other examples ( when both of players have all the options and can move back and forth ) like " ryu bait a jab in the neutral, ken whiffs s hk , ryu punish with s lk os tatsu " because in these situations there are more variables, both players have all the options.

Can we agree with that?


Because that’s simply how the game is designed with its stubbier hit boxes.


Yup, there’s more variables in neutral. Anything can happen, neutral is really hard, and whiff punishment is hard. There are a ton of things to take into consideration, and at the end of the day the best you can do is make an educated guess sometimes. The many variables can be simplified with situational awareness and muscle memory, but even then it will never be as simple as your example in neutral.


This is either completely wrong, or you are misusing the word “setup”.

Whiff-punishing is traditionally part of the Rock, Paper, Scissors game of Footsies. Offensive Poking beats Whiff Punish strat, Defensive Poking beats Offensive Poking, Whiff Punish strat beats Defensive Poking. There is no setup here. There is just spacing, movement and reactions. This is what I think OP is talking about. No spacing on block situations.


@ilitirit Yes but I’m trying to explain , in sfv , in neutral game when both player have all the options, you cannot count only on spacing and reaction and try whiff punish, I mean is still possible but is very rare and character dependent , it’s more common and guaranteed ( in sfv ! ) set your space ( you decide that space ) after a block situation , in the corner when opponent can’t go back, etc , and try to whiff punish , like the video I posted above