Rear Flip Kick (DF + LK) Best Uses?

chun-li

#1

Hi fellow Chun-li players, I come bearing a couple questions. Namely, in what match ups and in what situations do you find read flip kick (df + lk) most useful since the change to it in ultra? I never used chun prior to ultra, so I have no idea how good or bad it may have been in the past, but I’m struggling to find uses for it and rarely see it used in videos I watch online. Is there a trick to using it to not get it to trade with so many things? It seems to only hit directly in front of her head, so anything deep on her head or crossing up doesn’t seem to work against it, also it seems like it does work against anything that would hit her feet, like a well place dive kick, and that it isn’t very useful against most jump ins after knock downs since they’re either aiming for her head to stuff ex bird which also seems to stuff this move, or they’re just too meaty for the long start up for rear flip kick. The absolute worst is when they actually come int at the right angle that I think I should hit, but I guess I activated it too soon and the extremely brief 2 active frames expires just before they move into range.

Obviously, like all of Chun-'s anti-airs, spacing plays a huge part, so there’s no one go to move in any match up or against any specific move, but are there certain match ups or specials/jump normals you find rear spin kick most useful against and thus always keep it in the back of your mind, ready to throw out?

Also, do you only activate it when you’ve got ultra? 40 damage if I get the timing just right to clean stuff a jump in that would have scored them a heck of a lot more damage if I miss time it or mis judged the distance is pretty unimpressive, but I don’t seem to have any good follow up outside of ultra, or maybe dash forward ex legs if I got them high enough, and even then I’m not sure the little extra damage that adds is worth the meter. And adding further insult to injury, quite frequently I can’t even combo ultras off it since holding df to do the move gives up your charge for ultra 1 meaning you gotta hope they’re not to low to the ground by the time you have charge for ultra 1 or you go right over, and often times it knocks them too far to even get caught by the normally extremely reliable ultra 2.

I don’t know, maybe the move is just really specialized in its use, but figured I’d ask as I remember watching streams of early builds of ultra where combofiend was constantly complaining that the chun playesters at the test site weren’t using this move, as if he believed it was much more useful now so wanted to make sure I’m not missing something, and if I am, have a better idea of what match ups I should be looking to use this tool in, and in what situations or against what sort of jump ins/specials.


#2

I’ve never seen U2 miss when I anti-air with df+LK, but that’s my experience personally. I guess I can see how it COULD miss, though.

I’d say df+LK is a pretty reliable anti-air again. It’s not as good as it was in Super, but it’s still pretty solid.

It combos into headstomps or EX Legs (usually with a forward dash first). Headstomps do surprising amounts of damage actually, so if you can pull that off it’s a decent chunk of meterless damage to punish someone for jumping in once.


#3

I dont really use it, I probably should though.

I feel like its a lot more character and spacing specific than it was in super, so if someone could share some insight on that, it would be good.


#4

Well I’ve been trying to find a good video or even just screen shots of the various hit boxes and hurt boxes it has from start to finish in order to better understand how I should use it. I’ve had no luck finding videos or multiple pictures at various stages, and none that I’ve found seem to suggest she had any upper body immunity despite previous patch notes I found suggesting it used to, but from what I can tell from the pictures I have dredged up, it looks like the hit box uses to be much wider, going out quite a few pixels past the end of her knee and lasting all the way back to her mid torso, with the same bottom (maybe lower to, hard to tell) but slightly less height on the box overal, on chun in arcade edition (though I’m not sure if the pictures I found were improperly listed and actually super’s hit boxes), while in ultra the hit box is a little higher, but much thinner, only just going out to the edge of her knee and ending about half way through her thigh.

Because of this change, her overall hitbox size and range seems to be decreased, resulting in her needing to wait until nearly the absolute last second to perform the rear spin kick, or the brief active frames will whiff and you’ll eat a fat combo. It also is theoretically a little worse against cross ups and attacks from above (the ones that would stuff an ex bird), but if you can catch them with the extra height on it prior to them getting to the newly vulnerable middle section of her body, you can call that a wash. The fact that you do you have to hit them sooner and that the hit boxes you’ll be hitting them with are always in front of you may be why its more common for your opponent to get launched way out far in front of you where its difficult if not impossible to follow up with anything (aka, the situations where I throw out ultra 2 but they arc safely over the outer edge of the hit box), but I’m not entirely certain about this since the thinner hit box also means you can’t hit people from as far out in front of you as you used to be able to as well.

Even though I can’t find a single document stating this, I strongly suspect the upper body immunity she apparently used to have was secretly nerfed, from frames 4 to 12 as it used to be, to… something else. What that something else is, I can’t say, 4-10? Maybe it was removed all together? Not sure, but do to the plethora of trades I find myself having when I use this move, I’m almost positive she has no upper body immunity during her active frames, which are currently 11-13, which would have put it during the upper body immunity it supposedly has.

I think the increased recovery on it might also be making comboin’g off it ever so slightly harder, but its just 1 frame so hard to say, perhaps in the situations my ulra 2 is wiffing I just need to do a dash forward ultra 2 or something, will have to test more in training room.

Anyway, thank you all for the feed back so far, hope to hear more!

Edit: Also just wanted to mention that I didn’t know you could combo into heel stomps (I’d tried a few times before in training but couldn’t get it to land so held off on trying anymore until I learned if it was even possible), so I’m definitely going to be practicing the heck out of that. In theory, if you can consistently land a full trio of heel stomp off it, that bursts its damage from pitiful to hp DP levels, and could easily make this her best anti-air. st.hp and st.hk would still have better range, but seems like it would nearly obeselete my current stample anti-air, st.mk.


#5

seems like its pretty reliable against Ken, who is kind of hard to anti air in my opinion. If you’re zoning and he jumps, it usually catches him clean.


#6

I’m going to go ahead and confirm what Necrotrophic said, I just faced a wide range of various ken’s on ranked, and made it a point to read flip kick every jump in, and I don’t think I failed to stuff him even once, multiple times I was able to use it to combo into ultra. I feel like making this one move a core part of my ken match up game plan really improved the match up for me.

On a flip side, I spent probably a good half hour to an hour testing it against cammy’s cannon strike in training lab and it seems to be very lack luster against it, getting stuff except with extremely precise timing and near perfect positioning, and I was only using it against regular cannon strike, not even her much more formidable ex version. She also happens to be one of the characters that its very hard to combo into utlra off of. From pretty much every range and height that rear flip kick can actually beat or trade with cannon strike, it launches her too far to go right to ultra, for some of them I was able to still get ultra by walking forward and then ultra-ing, but a few seemed to be just a little too far for even that to catch (though its possible it was just execution errors on my part and if I’d done everything faster I would have made it).

So my opinion, based on my tests with it so far today, is that the rear spin kick use list is:

Rear Spin Kick
Good vs - Ken
Bad vs - Cammy


#7

Don’t forget df+lk hits -> dash -> EX leg


#8

So after a couple more hours of tests I’m definitely much better at dashing into ex legs after a rear spin kick, which seems like in theory it would make up the space gap issue for ultra 2 and give more damage (and though I haven’t tested it, probably give enough time to charge for ultra 1, which it has a lot of carry between the spin kick and the ex legs so from mid screen you could probably land full ultra 1 on everyone but poison), though reliant on you having ex meter.

Unfortunately, however, I can not seem to do anything with out meter. The best I’ve done was against zangief, if he goes for a bod slam really deep, because his hurt box is huge, its possible to hit him with rear spin kick even though he’s practically crossing you up, then, because he’s so deep on you, its possible to immediately jump and get a full 3 heel stomp chain. In all other situations, however, I can not get heel stomps to land. Even on gief, off a dash forward, the stomps always seem to wiff. Not sure if I’m just doing something wrong or if the situations where you can heel stomp off a rear spin kick are really really limited. Any advice on when you can get a heel stomp off this (or what I’m doing wrong if you should almost always be able to) would be greatly appreciated.

Edit: So keeping at it against gief specifically since I figured with his big hurt box, if I could heel stomp anyone, it would be him, I finally got it to land off a dash. Seems like the attack has to still be pretty deep, but not quite as deep as the distance from which you don’t even need the dash. There does still seem to be a cross up depth at which gief can by pass your rear kicks hit box and hit you though, so I’m not sure if any of this is even going to be useful against a good player who is jumping at your back shoulder or diving at your feet, both of which places are left vulnerable by rear spin kick, but still good to know I suppose.

The more I test it, the more I’m starting to feel like that if you don’t have the ultra to convert into, you’re probably better of just going for a jump throw or FA back dash. With out meter, I’m not really seeing stomps as a reliable conversion, and while if I wait till the absolute last frame to get my ex legs out after the dash I can get a solid 200 total damage off RFK dash ex legs, most of the time I get 160 or even 120, yet in most of the situations where I have 10 frames to get out a RFK I could have done a jump throw and gotten 150 for no meter and very little chance of execution error, or better yet jump target combo into almost guaranteed heel stomps for 236 damage off no meter.

Still I’m gonna continue to try it against different things and different match ups and see if anything else shows up that seems useful, definitely still hopeful to hear more match up or counter move advise for RFK from the vets as well.

Edit2: Well that was unexpected, so trying the same set up (RFK -> Dash -> jump -> heel stomps) against Poison has resulted in much more consistency in getting the move out. I was expecting the situation to be worse do to Poison’s wonky hurt box, but some how stomps seem much easier to land, Able to get the full 180 damage off quite a few distances and angles. This is very hope inspiring. Now I’m wishing I’d have started practicing against her first (or maybe I’m just better at timing things because I’ve been sitting here practicing this for something like 5 hours now X-D ).


#9

Yes, back before EX Kikoken caused knockdown I used to do this stupid unnecessary four-bar style combo in training mode:

In the corner
cr.HP xx HK Legs ~ MK Extension > cr.MK xx EX Kikoken xx FA Level 2 [Crumple] dash cancel forward > Wait > df+LK [Launcher] > Dash forward EX Legs > Ultra 1

So yes, you can definitely charge for U1 in the time it takes for you to dash EX Legs. It can be kind of hard though.


#10

RFK VS M.Bison (Dictator)

To start, and I admit up front this is probably not exceptionally helpful, since I feel like the best response to a dictator head press is probably just walk forward (or backward) and then punishing the recovery on his landing, but as it always annoyed me that head press stuffs ex bird I did some tests with RFK and it apparently stuffs head press clean and because he’s so deep (or because bison is so floaty) its really easy to just walk a couple steps and jump heel stomp him, which is probably more satisfying then it should be since he was trying to stomp you but got stomped instead. As a side note, if your only getting 1 or 2 stomps to land, your not walking far enough forward, you’ve got to walk until just before he’s touching the ground, then jump instant heel stomp to get all 3 stomps to hit. Since the attack counts as a counter hit you get 190 damage off it for 0 meter and a knock down. Even with the speed buff to his devils reverse descent in ultra, as far as I can tell he can’t use it to punish you, in fact if he tries to glowing hand you, you actually have enough time for another RFK to beat that clean too. The timing is strict though (you need to have wiffed the first pretty early), and if he angles it right it seems like he can dodge the hit box and cross you up with it, so probably still better to just block and punish that when he lands.

At point blank you can beat his double knee press (scissor kicks) with RFK to, but because of the start up you basically have to predict it, and if you predict wrong, you’re eating his fattest combo (or at least the very knee press you were trying to stuff), so not recommended, but was kind of cool to see that it was possible and that I could combo to ultra from it off a read if my opponent is being too predictable with his double knee press pressure. The best I could see to get with it against psycho crusher though was a trade, and it was in his favor as he recovered before I did. Similarly, you can technically stuff his pyscho punisher ultra 2 with RFK, but only if he actually drops down right in front of you, which he doesn’t actually need to do and unless he’s awful, he’s not doing pyscho punisher in a situation where you’d be able to RFK, but was fun to do in training none the less.

As for his actual jump in, if he does j.hp from far away, and your not recovering from fireball he predict jumped over, RFK does stuff him clean, though obviously its harder to get the full stomps off since he’s naturally going to fly further away. If he does j.hp deep, not even cross up deep but just like right on your head, j.hp actually seems to beat RFK clean, looking at shots of his Ultra hurt box on this move it looks like this is because his hurt box becomes really small and moves really far forward, so definitely not the be-all end all of anti-airs in this match up as j.hp seems almost tailor made to exploit RFKs new skinny hit box. Having said that, bison’s jump is really floaty (not unlike Chun’s) so I don’t typically have them jumping at me a lot unless its a cross up attempt on wake up. Jump target combo and jump throw seem to beat j.hp pretty well, but you have to watch out that he’s not baiting you into his own target combo as its one of the few ways he can actually combo into his ultras. Also, this probably shouldn’t come as a shock, but his j.mk he uses primarily as a cross up stuffs RFK… when used as a cross up. You can beat it clean if he uses it in your face since its hurt box is much bigger then j.hp’s, but I’m not sure why a bison would ever do that other then as the result of an execution error.

Final Verdict: Doesn’t seem like its really needed in this match up, if you want to get fancy it can beat head stomps, but if you have a enough time to RFK you have enough time to just walk out of the way and give yourself a punching dummy from which you can get a potentially larger combo, and its only really reliable against j.hp from a distance. Personally I don’t really feel like I need an anti-air all that much in this match up anyway, but its good to know what my options are.

Edit: By the way, thank you SnakeAes for the confirmation on that, ultra 2 is already a pretty solid anti-air on its own but comboing into ultra 1 from RFK seems like a good way to turn ultra 1 into an anti-air tool in its own right, albeit with the usual air ultra 1 caveat of requiring they be backed up into their side of the stage.


#11

RFK vs Dive Kickers (Cammy)

So after more tests this morning it seems to me that RFK does still have some upper body invincibility, not sure when the first frame of the invincibility starts is, but it seems like it once again goes right up until the frame before the first active frame of the attack. This is important because I’m finding, if your going to use this move at all against dive kickers, you generally want to do it later then sooner. The reason being that their ability to alter both their arc, and timing, allows them to play mind games on you and often stuff RFK, but if you do it a little late, at worst you trade since their attack goes through your upper body immunity, then hits you at the same moment RFK also hits them, and depending on the hit stun of what you traded with might still have a chance to combo to something, and if your lucky they delayed their descent and you actually beat it clean.

In an unrelated note to dive kickers but relevant to RFK in general, I’m finding that the trick (for me) to consistently get an ex legs after the dash is to start mashing for the ex legs immediately upon doing the RFK and through the dash. Maybe its just the rate at which I’m mashing, but it seems like the dash takes priority over ex legs, so the dash comes out instead, but you’ve got all the kicks you need buffered so that after the dash you can hit the last 2 kicks together with whatever timing you need to get ex legs with the full damage off it based on where your opponent is in their descent.

On another cammy related note, I’m not sure if this is true for all dive kickers but it really seems like she flys much further away off a stuffed or traded dive kick then her jump normals, seemingly making it impossible to stomp or straight ultra 2 her after them. She is definitely reachable with dash ex legs though which can obviously then convert to ultra 2, if only just on the outer edge, and there were a few times I thought I almost landed stomps off a double dash into them but it seems like she always hits the ground just before I can get the stomp out. Double dash into ex legs of any of the extra long launches seems to consistently get the full 200, which is nice, but seems a bit dangerous since if I build that into my muscle memory I can see myself double dashing right under a stuffed normal, missing the punish and probably wasting a meter. Anyway, as far as the stomps, not sure if I’m just not fast enough with my instant stomps, or if its really just not possible. Either way, in a live match against a Cammy I think I’m only going to even try RFK if I have the meter for an ex legs as that seems like the only thing I can consistently combo into off a RFK against Cammy.


#12

I don`t have anything to add, but I wanted to thank you for this work, much appreciated!


#13

it probably wouldnt be a bad idea to start an anti air thread with each character listed and to display notes which anti air is good for them and in what situations.


#14

That was actually what I was originally looking for in this forum before I made this thread, but as I couldn’t find it, and I lack the experience and match up knowldge to make one myself, I decided to reduce the scope of my question to just RFK. If anyone’s willing to put in the time to make such a thread, I’m certainly willing to add in whatever I can discover in the training room to help out, but I definitely lack the experience of the vets here to know what the commonly used air attacks and set ups are which are really what determine the best anti-airs in a given match up I would think.

Edit: Also I appreciate the thanks Bilerot, I may be new, but I hate just asking questions and want to do whatever I can to provide useful information, even if it takes me several hours in training room to confirm what probably most of the vet’s already know off the top of their head.


#15

most of the time I just use st.mk so im sure other people here have a lot more to offer. Maybe start a thread? we will all contribute.


#16

RFK vs Poison

So I mentioned in an earlier post that I was shocked to find how easy it was to combo into heel stomps off RFK on poison, and that remains true. In fact, if poison takes to the air, RFK seems extremely solid at stuffing EVERY normal she has at her disposal. Having said that, she does indeed have that wonky hit box, so there have been plenty of weird situations I’ve found in training where it visually looks like I should have hit her with the rfk but instead we both wiffed despite being close enough to kiss. On the plus side, most of those situations seem to be when she does her normal extremely late, meaning more recovery for her on her landing, and less likely hood she’ll be able to punish you for your own wiffed RFK.

Now, having noted that RFK > Poison in the air… that is NOT true for love me tender, her instant over head. The hit box on love me tender is pretty much tailor made to stuff RFK, with its hit box shooting out far forward while her hut box is up and away, allowing her to go over RFK’s hit box and smash chun on the top of the head. Even on trade things aren’t exactly in chun’s favor since it also results is a hard knock down, preventing any combo out of the trade, and LMT does a base 90 to RFK’s 40. RFK WILL stuff love me tender if you do it REALLY early though, I’m talking immediately on reaction to seeing her do it, since the actual active frames don’t come out instantly but she begins moving herself toward you right away. But because of the 10 frame start up of RFK and how quickly LMT both becomes active, and just in general gets on top of you, there isn’t a whole lot of fudge room, so I don’t know if I’d even try it online unless you’ve got a really good connection.

Because of this… I’m not sure how viable RFK really is in this match up. Obviously once she’s in the air RFK to your hearts delight, its pretty much a guaranteed 190 damage with the stomps for 0 meter from anywhere against anything she has in the air. BUT… how often do poisons actually jump at you when they can love me tender you instead, and as already discussed, unless you do it on almost immediate reaction, LMT > RFK.

I did all this testing all in the training room, so its very possible I’ll change my opinion once I try it more in actual matches. At the very least its good to know that there is a timing in which RFK can stuff LMT, in-case you’re facing an opponent whose getting predictable with it do to how obnoxiously safe it is on block (-1 like bisons double knee press). And again, for whatever reason, Poison has remained by far the easiest person to RFK into head stomps from anywhere, so it would behoove Poisons not to jump at any chun who knows what they’re doing.


#17

RFK vs Cody

The simple answer is don’t use it in this match up… but thats not really true. More like you better REALLY know what your doing if your going to use it. I don’t know what it is about Cody’s jump-ins but the timing to stuff them feels much tighter then against other characters I’ve tested RFK against. Use it too soon? You’re getting stuffed. Use it too late? You’re probably getting counter hit stuffed, getting a trade if your lucky. But there’s a very brief window of time in the middle, when Cody and his goldy locks are just right to be RFK’d. Even then, however, I find it exceptionally hard to get any stomps off a clean RFK, usually dash ex legs and ultra 2 or dash ex legs to ultra are your only ways of actually converting this into anything meaningful.

Counter intuitively, however, I’ve found that RFK is actually BETTER against Cody when he has the knife. Looking at the hit and hurt boxes between Cody’s j.hp with and with out the knife, with out the knife he pulls the lower half of his body upward and comes down at angle, shoulder (hit box) first, creating pretty much the ideal hit and hurt box to beat RFK, while with the knife his body and consequently his hurt box remains horizontal to the ground, allowing RFK to catch his hurt box before his hit box can reach her, even on surprisingly deep jump ins. If you can get him deep, combo-ing RFK into whatever you want after also becomes a heck of a lot easier.

Final Verdict: Personally, based on my tests, I don’t plan to use RFK against cody when he’s knife less, but plan to ALWAYS go to it if he jumps while holding the knife. As such, how useful RFK is in this match up will be largely effected by how frequently your opponent encorporates the knife into his game play, as well as if he actually jumps in while holding it.

(On a side note, I HATE double posting, should I be packing these all together in a single monster post, or is breaking this stuff up into separate posts the most reader friendly way to share this sort of information?)


#18

RFK vs Kikosho

So one thing I’ve been battling with is why should I ever RFK into ultra 2 instead of just ultra 2. After all, RFK to U2 does less damage then just straight ultra 2, ultra 2 covers a much wider range with its attack, is active longer, and has more invulnerability. For a while the only reasoning I could come up with was if you combo RFK to ex legs to ultra, you get more damage then just straight ultra, not a ton more, but in the right situations it could certainly be worth it. However, upon comparing RFK to U2 more closely as anti-airs I’ve found something that most of the vets probably knew but I did not.

Kikosho causes chun-li to step forward. That might not sound like a big deal, but it actually is. If you just compared the hit box and hurt box of RFK and U2, U2 looks vastly superior, but what you don’t see from screen shots is the characters current location relative to where they were when they started the move. I don’t know about the rest of you, but I’ve lost way to many matches where my opponent jumped at me, I was certain they were going to hit me in the face, I ultra 2’d, and some how they went right over me, then did a max damage combo on me during the U2 recovery. For the longest time I thought I was just bad at judging distance or something, but as it turns out, if your opponent is jump kicking such that their foot should hit your face, if you U2, you’ll step under the kick prior to doing the giant kikoken. To get kikosho to anti-air they either need to be coming down at your chest or lower, or coming down in front of you (such as via a neutral jump). As a side note, I learned that the distance from which I can punish an empty neutral jump with ultra 2 is actually much better then I realized.

But what this means for RFK is that, if your opponent is coming toward your head, RFK to U2 IS better then straight ultra 2 in most situations, since it does not move you forward, and its directly in front of your head where the hit box is. Same thing with on the end or cross up distances, depending on the hurt box of the attack RFK might get stuffed or wiff, but neither of those is going to be as bad as the punish your probably going to face from a wiffed U2.

RFK vs E. Ryu

So Ryu with a dive kick, its a thing, and I’m not a fan. Especially since the dive kick almost seems to have been custom made to stuff ex birds. But fear not, RFK is actually okay against it. Just like other dive kicks, I recommend aiming for later then sooner, both to make sure that the timing doesn’t throw you off, and that maybe if he doesn’t go for the kick but a cross up normal, it misses your back shoulder do to the upper body invulnerability. Now the angle of the dive kick is another one of those that means he can get over your hit box and stuff you entirely, but its a very precise spot where this is possible, a little further forward or backward and he either wiffs, or you can stuff him, so unless he’s doing it after a knock down, simply taking a step forward or backward can be enough to allow RFK to work.

As for his jumping normals, I didn’t find any were particularly bothersome for RFK, I was stuffing them all with ease, including with the slightly delayed timing. Pretty much all of his jumping normals have extremely wide, flat, hurt boxes, usually lower then the actual hit boxes, making them pretty much ideal for RFK to stuff, even on deep jump ins.

The biggest issue RFK has in this match up, however, is actually not stuffing the move, but what to do after one. Most of the time off a trade you can ultra 2… but who uses ultra 2 vs evil ryu? And if you can ultra 1 off a trade, I haven’t pulled it off myself and not for lack of effort you can be certain. Depending on how deep the trade was you might be able to get a little ex legs damage off a trade, but more then likely only just enough to come out slightly better then even on the damage trade overall, which is not good when you have to use a meter to trade evenly with a free command normal. On pure stuff you can easily combo to ex legs with out issue, so there’s always that, but I still haven’t managed to ultra 1 after a legs despite effort there as well, obviously if you can this becomes a heck of a lot better, but so far it seems impossible based on my skill and tests. You can some times land some stomps, very rarely all three, usually 1 or 2, and at some distances it seems like 0. Unlike poison, where you almost have to not be trying not to land stomps, e-ryu’s fall speed and arc mean you basically want to keep walking forward until just the moment before he’d hit the ground and then instant heal stomp, any sooner and you’ll almost always wiff the stomps from my testing.

This basically means your often not getting more then 100/110 damage off a stuff, which isn’t awful, but its questionable if the risk outweighs the reward here, especially considering how difficult the stomp timing is so you might even get only 40/50. Having said all that, 160 damage off a RFK dash to ex legs isn’t that bad for a meter (ex kikoken only gives 100 if lands, after all), and since his dive kick does stuff ex bird as well as it does, you could use this as an ex bird anti-air replacement. While corner carry is rarely a huge point of emphasis for me vs Evil Ryu, it does count for something as well that it does carry him a little bit.

Final Verdict: The only real negative I have for RFK in this match up is the lack of potential to turn it into big damage. Simply put, your probably not going to scare your opponent out of dive kicking or jumping at you with RFK in this match up… but that doens’t mean its still not useful. Even if you only get 1 stomp, its still more damage then st.mk, and it doesn’t raise the height of your hurt box like st.mk does either. I don’t see it as an essential tool in the match up or anything, but not necessarily a bad thing to have in your back pocket in case your e ryu opponent trys to dive kick your ex birds.


#19

No, multi posts are okay at least for this part of the forums. It’s kind of quiet anyway, and useful posts are always appreciated. :3


#20

Good to know, happy to hear some one else is finding this useful. Anyway, now to share the fruits of my time in training tonight.

RFK vs Ibuki

So just looking at Ibuki’s hit and hurt box on her aerial options you’d think RFK would be amazing here. Pretty much everything has a wide flat hurt box, which is prime pickings for RFK. And against her jump normals, this holds true. Everything I tried this against, including her target combo, I was able to stuff easily and convert into big damage. Unlike poison, you can’t really just walk forward heel stomp to get all 3, doing so will only get 1, however, unlike e-ryu, Ibuki does fall slow enough that you can dash forward and usually get all all 3 heel stomps after the dash to land. So different technique, but same result, solid meterless damage off an rfk. Obviously all the usual ex legs and ultra 2 stuff works too.

So where’s the problem? Well the first is jump forward kunai. RFK can deflect the kunai just fine if you time it right, but that timing is really early, meaning you almost have to predict the kunai, if you wait to hit RFK till the timing when you’d have stuffed a jump in normal the kunai will knock you out of the RFK resulting in a knock down. If you do deflect it, you do recover before she does though, so you do get a free cr.lk to legs combo, maybe better, didn’t test it beyond seeing if I could cr.lk before she could block. Now because of that recovery I don’t get a ton of ibuki jumping at me with kunais, but still worth noting.

Second and more relevantly, is Hien. Despite a hit and hut box that seems like it should be good for RFK, this move just gets on top of chun to fast. Even in training, knowing the move was coming because it was the only thing I had queu’d up, Hien completely stuffed RFK on my quickest reaction EVERY time.

Final Verdict: I feel like this match up is very similar to Poison in that Ibuki has an instant air special that completely destroys RFK, but all her actual air normals lose to RFK, with the extra wrinkle of a possible kunai to worry about. In the event ibuki is actually jumping at you, its worth keeping RFK in the back of your mind as you can stuff any jump normal and easily dash into full heel stomps (or just ex legs to ultra 2… or even just ultra 2). If you see Hien coming though, st.mk still seems like the best option.