Rear Flip Kick (DF + LK) Best Uses?

chun-li

#21

Before I start with today’s character (and sorry this aren’t in alphabetical order or anything by the way), just a correction I wanted to make to a previous post, RFK does NOT keep you in the same location, but actually moves you back slightly. This is important because it helps catch people who would have other wise crossed you up and in some cases can give you an extra frame or two before they reach you that is needed to compensate for the 10 frame start up. Anyway, with out further adieu…

RFK vs Fei Long

So lets get the chicken wing out of the way right away. At first I was really struggling against this move, but once I got the timing down, it was almost trivial to stuff every time. The trick is to find that timing right before you think you should want to RFK, and let the momentum of his chicken wing move his hurt box into your hit box. Perhaps a little counter intuitively it feels like its a little easier to stuff from close or mid range then long range where you have the time to really get the timing down, but I think it has to do with the fact that he has 3 very different hit and hurt boxes at start, middle, and end, and the end one is the one that gives RFK the most trouble. Still, I stuffed it in all 3 phases pretty consistently, so while I would do a little testing on the timing before using this in a match, certainly seems like a good tool to remove chicken wings from fei’s arsenal if you’ve got good reactions (obviously its easier for me when thats the only thing I’ve recorded him to do in training).

Vs his normals… this was more of a mixed bag. Most of his stuff has the use big flat hit boxes rfk loves to stuff, but his j.mp actually has an exceptionally good hit box that makes it extraordinarily difficult to anti-air with anything, RFK or other wise. Ultimately, after spending quite some time trying to find a good timing to stuff it with out success, I decided it seemed like the best option was simply to low profile it with cr.mp or cr.mk. In theory, after looking at the hit box and hurt box, there should be a very brief window, like maybe 1 frame, where you can hit him with rfk before he can hit you with j.mp, so maybe if you’ve got better physical dexterity then myself this is something you can RFK, but the room for error is so small I don’t know that its worth the risk.

Outside of j.mp the only other normal I found worth even mentioning was j.lk which has the sort of reduced hurt box that can give RFK’s new slim hit box fits, so as far as cross ups go, this one’s pretty much fully immune to RFK, but I guess you could still try to use that upper body invincibility to make them pass through?

As for punishes, I have yet to get even a single stomp to land on anything, seems like fei just moves too far and his hut box becomes too compact while falling. EX legs to ultra works fine as usual though.

Final Verdict: I think RFK is a fantastic tool to have in this match up. If you’re on point with your timing and reactions, fei can pretty much never chicken wing you. Unfortunately its not especially useful against j.mp, but you can’t win em all. The lack of heel stomps off it is also annoying, but the fact its so easy to stuff chicken wing clean easily makes up for it, as even with out meter its a low risk low reward, which is acceptable, while with meter its a low risk high reward, and that is my favorite combination.


#22

if you can just list the characters with a few bullet points where RFK is useful that would be better IMO

Even if you include the longer info afterwards, a lot of people will be able to use this as a quick reference tool in between matches


#23

You can edit the first post… or make a new thread with the Cliff Notes if you really have to.


#24

If I ever complete all the characters, or at least reach a point where I don’t see myself doing anymore, I’ll try to make a cliff notes version and edit the first post with it in alphabetic order.

RFK vs Ken

So never actually did a full break down of Ken so thought I would.

Vs Normals, RFK destroys all of ken’s kicks, only j.lk even really has a chance of giving it trouble. Ken’s punches are another story. I’ve beaten them all, but the hit boxes on them are much better, so its much more common to trade with them. Rarely does RFK get fully stuffed, as their hurt boxes are still pretty wide, but its much harder to beat them clean. In all cases, they’re pretty hard to combo into heel stomps, but depending on how deep they were its very doable. This is one I recommend dash to stomps for, if you can catch him at all, its usually off a dash to stomps. Some times you get, 1, some times 2, some times all 3, really seems to depend on the depth of their jump in. As usually, dash to ex legs to ultra 2 seems to work in all cases though.

Vs Tatsumaki Senpukyaku (hurricane kick). I wouldn’t recommend using RFK against it on the ground, period, better punishes that aren’t nearly as hard to time, but I did stuff it here and there when the stars aligned. More relevantly though, is whether or not to use it against air tatsu. In the case of normal tatsu’s, the vast majority of the time I found one of two things happened, I either stuffed it, or we both wiffed, so I’d say its easily worth trying to use it against them. Ex air tatsu was a different story. In most cross up situations it stuffed me clean, or at best, traded. The only times I really stuffed it were really badly placed Tatsu’s at my face such that I could hit the lower foot before the extended one got to me. looking at the hit box and hurt box on both versions of tatsu, they seem to be the same, with the main difference being that the ex versions is almost always active, while the other versions are only active for a few frames here and there, so presumably it was easier to get the hit box of RFK to his hurt box during a non-active frame and stuff it. For what its worth, if you do stuff tatsu of either kind, it seems to be really easy to get the full 3 heel stomps off it.

Final Verdict: RFK actually isn’t as good against Ken as I thought based on my online experience earlier in this thread. That is not, however, to say its bad, and the hit boxes that are going to be difficult for RFK are just as likely to be difficult for her other anti-airs to handle, as its less about the size of Ken’s hurt box and more about how much deeper his hit boxes go then his hurt box, so it may still be the best anti-air in this match up. The punishes you get off RFK aren’t always great, but I wouldn’t call them bad either, most of the time you can get at least something. I’ll probably keep using RFK in this match up as my go to anti-air, but there are definitely situations where its probably better to just block or low profile to dodge.


#25

This thread is godlike.

I live to combo into headstomp. It’s probably my favorite move in any FG.

Actually I like judging how they are jumping by seeing if they are going towards my shoulder, head or chest, it gives a nice metric instead of me trying to just eyeball it.


#26

RFK vs Rose

First the good news. RFK stuffs EVERY air option Rose has clean. In fact the only one that even should be a little tricky is j.lk and even that ones still well in RFKs favor. All her hut boxs are wide and much deeper then her hit boxes, making her one of the easiest characters to consistently stuff so far, if not the easiest.

Now the bad news. Stomps off a RFK are excruciatingly hard to achieve. I don’t know what it is about her hurt box on knock down but time and time again I was certain I stomped her yet my foot passed through her torso with out achieving anything. I occasionally got 1 stomp, and once even got 2, but I never got 3, and even the 1 stomp wasn’t connecting from most distances with walk ups or dashes into the stomps. EX legs, however, does still connect fine, and every RFK straight to ultra 2 connected with out the need for ex legs to pull chun-li closer, so its still worth doing if you’ve got meter or ultra 2, but other wise…

Final Verdict: This ones short but there’s not much to say, if you want a mindless anti-air vs Rose, RFK will do the trick, but because of how hard it is to stomp her out of it, if you don’t have or don’t want to use your meter, one of her normals might suit you better, st.mk for instance should still be able to beat most of her jump in atacks, with less start up and while getting you a little more damage for your trouble.


#27

RFK vs Sakura

I’d like to start by saying thank you to whoever got the nerf to Sakuras J.hp pushed through. While the move is still quite solid, and every now and again it would cause a trade or even stuff my RFK, for the most part I’ve been able to stuff it cleanly. I think the trick is to hit it either before or after those 4 frames of lower body invincibility it has during the start up. I’d actually say her j.hk gave me more trouble then her j.hp, if only because of its thinner hurt box and the fact it pushes the hit box so far forward, giving it the potential to dodge the hit box of RFK. In any case, other then deep j.hk, I faired extremely well against Sakura’s jump ins, including the infamous j.hp and even her ex otoshi was no match for RFK (infact it was even easier to stuff then j.hp, never hit me once in all my time spent trying to combo full stomps off it).

On the punish side of things, she’s kind of medium difficulty. Sakura seems to be another one of those characters that I find doing walk forward into stomps instead of dash into stomps works best against. Not really sure why, but I struggled to get stomps off a dash, while quite frequently I could get all 3 stomps off a walk forward into stomp. As usual there’s a lot of factors that go into if you can land the stomps, mostly how deep she is when your RFK her, the deeper the better, but ex legs and ultra 2 seem to work plenty solid from all ranges so if you’re worried about whiffing the stomps there’s always that too, but I could definitely get 2-3 stomps relatively consistently at quite a few depths so don’t be afraid to go for the stomps if you want to keep that meter.

Final Verdict: Wow, this was way better then I thought, I expect j.hp to give RFK fits, but it really didn’t. You’re probably not going to use it against an otoshi cause they’ll likely be doing it either in a combo or ex to punish a fireball, but if you think their punish was really late you can even RFK to punish the punish and I admit its pretty satisfying turning their wasted meter into a meterless 190 damage on them. Definitely highly recommend RFK in this match up based on my testing today.

Special note: Dash to EX legs actually misses sakura on j.hk if she’s deep enough, going under her… so… watch out for that.


#28

RFK vs Rolento

So Rolento’s j.hk looks like it should be great against RFK, its got just the right shape (hit box/hurtbox) and angle that tends to give RFK fits… yet for reasons I can’t explain RFK seems to beat this move quite well. This is exactly why I test everything in the training room instead of just eye balling things in the USF4 bible based off its frame data and hit box shots. Similarly with j.hp, RFK, when timed decently, seems to consistently win the day. Both of Rolentos light jump ins have terrible hurt box and hit boxes that RFK gobbles up, same with j.mk… but then theres j.mp. This is the one jumpin Rolento has that RFK has to worry about. With good timing I could still beat it most of the time, but its got a HUGE hit box, a decent hurt box, and perhaps most importantly, it seems to get on you fast. One second rolentos up above you where your rfk will wiff, the next the active frames of his j.mp are in your face or on top of your head wrecking your buns. Still, it can be beat, and most of the time all it results in is a trade, which you can often convert into ultra 2 if you’ve got it.

Rolentos air knives are from a neutral jump only, so RFK doens’t really make any sense against it, but you can deflect the knives with perfect timing if you roll like that I guess. Same with Rolento’s air pogo, he can only do it from a neutral jump, but obviously he’s more likely to do that when actually on top of you. If you can do the RFK early enough, you can stuff the pogo, but if you have to think about it, its already too late, so don’t even try.

As for punishes, dash to stomps seems to land 2-3 almost every time, so he’s pretty easy to punish. At certain depths walk forward into stomps also works, but I think I find dash to stomps the most consistent. Dash to ex legs went under him one time when he was super deep on me, but for the most part that always hits, and he’s very easy to go straight from RFK to ultra 2 off anything including trades so it would be in a rolento’s best interest not to jump at you when you’ve got ultra 2.

Final Verdict: The only real issue I found was against j.mp, but even that can be stuffed with good timing, so RFK seems quite good in this match up. Combine that with fairly consistent conversions to both stomps, legs, and ultra 2, and I’d say RFK is easily chun’s best anti-air in this match up and proper use of it should really make Rolento think twice about jumping toward Chun-li.

Special Note: At 5 AM tomorrow I’m leaving on a 2 week business trip that will leave me unable to play any USF4 during that two week period, so I will not be able to add anything to this thread during that time, but I won’t be dead, just half way across the country in Wisconsin with only a business laptop that may or may not even lock me out from lurking this forum. It sounds like at least a few people are finding this information useful, so feel free to continue to add to the character evaluations in my stead.


#29

RFK vs Abel

The TLDR version of this is simply that RFK > Abel’s every option. All 6 of his air normals have hit and hurt boxes that makes RFK’s mouth water (if a command normal could have a mouth), while his instant over head axe kick special can actually be beaten with RFK on reaction (though you’d need really good reactions and eyes to see it was an axe kick and not something else in a live match). It will obviously work on a read as well, just don’t do it too early for the obvious reasons (RFK isn’t active very long). As for the actual follow ups, Abel also happens to have an especially stomp friendly falling arc, allowing me to walk forward stomp off deep jump ins and dash stomp off shallower ones and in most cases get at least 2 stomps, quite frequently all 3. From most distances you won’t be able to get a stomp off a stuffed axe kick, but you can go straight into ultra 2 or dash to ex legs (and then to ultra 2) quite easily. In fact, for whatever reason, Abel seems exceptionally easy to get the full 200 damage of a RFK dash exlegs

Final Verdict: Despite being rusty from my business trip, I had my way with Abel in the training room today. If you are late on the axe kick reaction usually you still get a trade, which is in Abel’s favor damage wise, but might be worth the risk if you’ve got meter or ultra. Also of note, if your holding down forward in anticipation of a jump in or axe kick and he rolls instead, you’re primed to punish the roll with ex bird do to down charge (though probably still better to just throw it) Regardless, RFK seems really good in this match up… albeit against things I rarely see Abels do against me.


#30

I was using RFK to AA a sakura’s brainless heavy jumpins, but then he started using a tatsu to change his trajectory, making him land behind me and punish RFK’s long recovery :frowning:

I’ll have to try mk to AA Sak I guess. It seems like Sak likes to jump too deeply to try to use cr.mp as an AA.


#31

Thank you for the feed back Dayman! This shows the inherent flaw of all my information, which is that there’s only so much you can get from the training room and canned set ups, to do a truly thorough investigation of RFK in each match up I’d really need a sparring partner for each character to spend some time against, and even then there’s bound to be tricks he or I wouldn’t think of. Anyway, as a beginner with Chun myself, none of my info is intended to be the be-all end-all for RFK in that character match up, simply a rule of thumb resource based on the one thing I can do, which is spend a couple hours in training room testing RFK against things.

I’d be interested to see exactly what your opponent was doing, trying to use the training dummy to tatsu over Chun-li so far hasn’t given me much luck. Seems like every situation where the tatsu gets over me, she was jumping so deep nearly any jump in, including an empty jump, would have gotten over me, so there was no reason to try to RFK, but maybe I"m not tatusing at the right height or something. Either way, still good to know to look out for this in the match up, so thank you again.


#32

To be fair I’m a really bad player so I wouldn’t take just my word for it. I could have just been flustered and making bad decisions. I did eventually stop playing because of saltiness that night lol


#33

for Sakura you need low profile moves like c. mp and c. mk. Especially if she starts doing air tatsu

You can also try to nail her earlier with something like j. hp target combo


#34

Just found out, by mistake, that the rfk will best El fuerte’s body splash special. First time it was a mistake and it beat it clean, tried it a few more times and it either traded or beat it clean. I have to confirm what happens if he does the air grab special but that might be another use for it. I didn’t try this but I’m wondering if it’ll keep you from his running sweep since your airborne. If it does then it’s great in this match, if he runs and does the body splash overhead he loses and sweep wiffs.


#35

Pretty sure if he tries to cross up body splash it will still win, no?

That’ll require some testing, but if this is a consistent option against Fuerte that’ll make the matchup a lot easier.


#36

That’s what caused me to do it by mistake. I was holding db and hit lk but he splashed me and it crossed up so flip kick came out and beat it clean.


#37

is not reliable tho