Red Hadouken question

So, I just spent the past fifteen tiring minutes looking through all fifteen pages, and searched throughout these boards, eventhubs, and frame data, and yet, i’ve yet to find my answer.
Of course, any typical Akuma player online who don’t really understand how he works, throws a fierce punch red hadouken, but some more skilled players and above seem to avoid doing this. Why is that? The start-up is the same, and they’re usually thrown out from full screen or FADC’d into. The speed isn’t all that different and it seems like the only real difference is the amount of hits. I figure it’s all about the mindgames and keeping your opponent from either focusing, but is there something I’m missing?

I’m not 100% sure on this, but I believe recovery time is shorter for weaker red hadous.

Mind games yes due to the fact that the lp version has less recovery time. Jumping on reaction can lead to a dp at the correct range also good for fireball wars to keep em guessing

Always use the HP Shakunetsu Hadouken in a juggle.

The LP Shaku is useful in fireball wars with characters because it will force them to jump or block, meaning you can gain and advantageous position and control space.

Strong shaku is REALLY GOOD vs Balrog

Yes, exactly what Scrub said.

What I’ve found out recently using light/med/heavy shaku’s is that you can play a lot of mind games.

What happens is when I’m in a hadoken war across the screen, they throw a hadoken, and i throw a light shaku, making them jump after the two hadoken’s collide, making them think i threw a medium/heavy, and with short recovery using the light, I throw a medium shaku, hitting them before they hit the ground

But yes use heavy during juggles :]

The fireball speed is the same, but the lp shaku recovers quicker than hp (13 frames earlier), so it has all the psychological effects of a red hado (multi-hitter, jump rather than focus…etc) but without the recovery. Any decent Ryu will tatsu over hp shakus on reaction, theyre not safe even at full screen (from tatsus).

Personally, since my execution sucks, I usually start with an lp shaku in a fireball war before throwing an hp shaku. If I mess up the motion, I’ll whiff a jab, so I can recover/focus in time. If I messed up and whiffed a fierce, I’ll eat the fireball. After the motion is established in the lp shaku, I have 99.99% confidence that the hp shaku will come out.

Just a slight correction on your terminology. It bates them into jumping or blocking not forces.

I know it seems small, but it is all the difference.

Yes, the main thing is that weaker red fbs recover faster.

Another important point is that some times you do not want more fbs. The option not to have them adds to your mind games.

For example, they throw fb, you throw red. Because they know your fb will absorb theirs, they neutral jump over the remainder. All well and reasonable. BUT, now you throw LP red. They THINK there will be more fbs coming, so they jump, but since there was none, it was a pointless jump. You can now throw another fb and pull ahead in the race. If you had thrown an HP red fb, then even if you EXed it or FADCed it, you could not throw another fb since you are not allowed to have multiple fbs on the screen at the same time.

Hm, thanks, I figured it had something to do with the baiting certain reactions. I don’t main Akuma, but I’ve used him enough to know that start-up is all the same. As a Chun player, I’m guessing the fp red is the one most punishable with her ultra. thanks again.

At mid-screen is lp.shaku still punishable with a j.HK in?

I have a serious tendency to love all over my fp.shakus. They’re mostly safe (but not the way I spam them) deal +36 chip to ALL of your knockdowns and they capitalize against a careless player who will eat the other 2 hits.

I think my playstyle relies too heavily on reds. And if I can successfully bait them into blocking or eating a shaku in any situation, id throw it out. and id want 3 hits and not 1. Need to break this habit…

1.Throw A LP shaku so the opponent jumps into your Raging Demon.

Any attack needs a recovery of ~53 frames before human reaction speed can punish it with a jump attack.
Red fireball jab has 50 frames of recovery, so human reaction is incapable of punishing it. (Except Gen and Dhalsim, Gen is at about 48-49 frames, while Dhalsim is at about 44-46 frames)

Medium and Fierce have 57, and 63 frames of recovery.

hp shaku recovery is ridiculously bad (i’m pretty sure you can jump and punish it in reaction, but than again that’s when mind-games come to play and they can get punish if you actually did lp shaku), you should only use mp version imo, cause at worst it will trade and go even with other characters EX fireballs, I usually only use shaku hadokens when playing against sagat and ryu, or against anyone who’s putting up an annoying fireball war -.-.

As Thomahawk said, LP/MP/HP Shaku for me is the perfect setup for AA Demon when my opponent is at less than half their life bar. At that point, if you haven’t been trying to land the AA Demon and missing it, they won’t be expecting the AA. Being as they don’t want to add chip damage to their already dwindling health, they will jump the flying red ball most of the time. The recovery on Shaku makes buffering the AA extremely easy.

I didn’t realize that the recovery time on the lighter shaku’s was less than the HP version. This should up my Akuma play a bit. Thanks for the info.

Recovery times go like this

HP > MP > LP

The EX also has the recovery time of the LP version with the 3 hits and 30 more damage than the HP version.

wha what about human reaction time? Gen’s have quicker eyes?

I don’t want to open an new topic for this question. and its a bit like this so,

What is the difference between LP palm strike and HP palm strike.
I think the HP is stronger. But how is the reaction time and the priority. Does the LP version have more chance of hitting/winning?. They all will have the instant recovery i guess.

Recovery times and as for Palm Strikes I’m honestly not sure I’m not a Akuma player but I think damage wise theres no difference at all . Its just whether you press a punch button or not .