This. Just to add a little more explanation, delayed wakeup adds 11f to a character’s wakeup timing, and Sakura’s cr.LP takes a total of 11f. This means that adding it in perfectly adjusts to DWU timing, assuming of course that your timing is accurate.
Actually, Sakura’s cr.lp is 10 frames total. It’s still her best frame kill, she does not have a perfect 11. But you will need to be aware of that one frame.
Not really. At least not against a really solid Hugo that really knows the character. He denies crossups with EX backbreaker, zoning, EX running grab or EX lariat, spacing game. His normals do high damage and her HP is low, and his HP is higher, and the armored normal which denies a lot of her 1 frame link combos. He can straight up deny her game at range OR up close.
People don’t take Hugo seriously and he’s generally thought of as a really weak character. But once more of his tech develops he will get more and more dangerous.
I’m not talking about players who kinda decided to just play around with him every once in a while. I’m talking about Hugo players who are actually maining the character so they KNOW how to make him dangerous, and really deny the opponent their game.
My main reasons Hugo CAN win the matchup
- His normals do high damage, her HP/stun is low
- He can deny her unblockable/crossup shenanigans
- He can deny fireballs
- He can deny her 1 frame links
- His HP is higher
Just a few.
I think the MU comes down to the skill of the Hugo.
I played Jibbo’s Hugo online, and CCG|Air’s Hugo in person before if that counts as high profile players. That match up is insanely in Sakura’s favor, it’s so easy to just maul Hugo. Now with that being said, the match up is considered in Sakura’s favor by both most Sak and Hugo players alike. With that being said; I am not saying that the match up is unlosable; I’m sure I’d get bodied by RB’s Hugo. It’s just the match up is a favorable one for Sakura since it’s very hard for Hugo to get in on her; but once he is in, it’s very scary. But on the same token, it’s also not that hard for Sakura to get out, even after she loses 1/3 of her health in the process.
Yeah I agree with that a lot. It is just that the matchup has gone both ways for me. Either I bear him senseless or he denies me every which way and twice on Sunday. lol.
Just sharing reasons why the match has gone both ways for me. Chalk it up to my still being inexperienced likely.
Um I was talking about playing against Hugo mains… who the hell would base match up numbers on random people who barely picked up the character.
Then dont cross him up when he has meter
EX running grab is ridiculously slow, if he starts doing EX lariat just be smarter with fireballs and bait it out.
How can he deny her links? That doesn’t even make sense, you can only link when you already got a hit in. If you’re getting hit during the combo by one of his normals it means you dropped the combo, which means your execution sucks. This isn’t killer instinct, you can’t just mash out armored normals in the hope to stop a combo.
I think he means the fact that going for 1f links is so much more dangerous against grapplers that other types of characters.
But yeah, that matchup is really not bad at all. EX lariat/meatsquasher are both super easy to OS for or even just react to with throw. EX backbracker does wreck a ton of potential oki…but really you shouldn’t be going ham on a grappler anyways, especially one who has a massive struggle overcoming even Sak’s mediocre zoning game. Just focus on keeping him out, collect some free damage and a knockdown if he fucks up, then go back to keeping him out.
So, fuerte. How do you deal with him? Q bomb is just disgusting.
I never had fuerte mu knowledge before (who did?) but i kinda just did wakeup focus a lot until i noticed them going for that running jump grab. Then i’d mix it up with forward dashes or ex dp if I’m desperate. Now, fuerte can just run-stop and do nothing, waiting for my focus and just q bomb it away. Or just q bomb my backdash. Or a normal. or a jump pretty much. So I feel forced to block, but now that just opens up fuerte standard mixups.
Even in footsies range, you can’t throw fireballs or throw reckless st.hk. It just feels like it is in fuerte’s favor at all times.
EDIT: I’m gonna experiment with stuff in training when I’m done with work today.
Knock him down, bait him/mixup, punish hard. You can mixup throwing him/lk tatsu on wakeup, be wary that he can ex guacamole leg throw (DP air grab) you if you lk tatsu. The winner of the match is determined by who gets the knockdown first, imo. In the neutral, you can react to his splash by doing a jump back MP to beat it. Even if you get knocked down and get put into the Fuerte mixups, Sakura has reeeally good options to get out of them. Here’s a quote from something I posted months ago.
I actually have a massive amount of experience thanks to having a competent local Fuerte (@speedbrkr aka Reyart).
QBomb is not as bad as it seems, you just have to take a bit more care with your buttons when they have meter. On his wakeup, you can throw out a meaty cr.lp and recover in time to block, all versions of QBomb are easily punishable with reveal H.Shou.
The biggest issue is the spinning grab move out of neutral; try not to commit to ground pokes, wait until he leaves the ground and you can preemptively neutral j.hp him out of press/whatever the twisty throw is.
If you get knocked down just stay calm and watch closely what he’s doing, while his vortex feels shitty to be stuck in, remember that he has to guess right 5-7 times per round to win, if you hit your links he only has 900 stun so you only have to guess right twice; this is the trade-off for it feeling like neutral game is in his favor, if you have 2-3 bars you’re just one block and punish from being in full control of a round. If you block a press you can cr.mk xx shou punish very consistently.
Mix up your oki between throw, meaty cr.lp, and meaty l.tatsu. If you cr.lp and see yellow/armor absorb do neutral or jumpback hp.
A minor aside, I almost always use U2 but in this particular matchup a lot of things that seem like you can U2 go straight through it (walljump moves, f+mk overhead, run press/grab), and he’s slippery so having the extra damage from U1 when you finally get ahold of him is nice.
Good stuff. I’ll work on them soon.
I never felt too bad when I did manage to knockdown fuerte. Getting that first knockdown tho was really tough, since he won’t stay still.
Those options to deal with the mixups are interesting. Probably first thing i’ll work on.
Random question I was hoping someone might know offhand: Can you reliably AA Juri’sv dive kick with U1?
Haven’t played with this extensively, but my instinct is that this will be hard to pull off in a match because you need to know which divekick she is going to use in order to space it properly. U1’s hitbox is outside of Sakura’s hurtbox while Juri’s Shikusen is the opposite, so in theory you should beat it if you’re at the right distance.
The problem is that with variable dive angles and the fact that a good Juri player is always going to know their spacing, you need to position yourself such that Juri will land on top of Sakura’s outstretched leg (essentially in front of where she was standing instead of on top of her), which is going to be difficult without a godlike read. If Juri lands on Sakura’s upper body during the U1 you’ll either trade or get beaten (and EX shikusen combos into ultra easily, so it’s a risky proposition).
(EDIT: Also the fact that Sakura’s hitbox isn’t there for all active frames makes the timing tighter still.)
Some things worth trying out in training mode:
- Perhaps backdash then U1? Shikusen has 14-28 recovery frames after landing depending on the strength or EX buttons used. This should be plenty if you dash early enough (U1 has 11f startup but you gain extra frames the earlier you react to the Shikusen before she lands, so the timing shouldn’t be too strict), and Juri should land within range.
- Something else I forgot
Sakura, in my opinion is ridiculously easy to play. I was playing a Sakura the other day with sever amounts of lag and he/she managed to pull off every single one of her combos, while I (Akuma Player) couldn’t even connect my S.HP into L.Tatsu. Damn.
There is more to a character than their combos. Sak’s combos are good, but she has her own weaknesses to make up for that.
Her standard combos (basic loops and extension after cr.MK hitconfirm) use 1f links as well, so it’s hard to argue that they’re easy. If the lag was as bad as you say your opponent was either a) good, b) lucky (lag not at critical moments or fluking the correct timing) or c) somehow cheating.
Akumas combos are easier then sakuras by far, if we’re going by frame data.
I tried it out and yeah, a lot harder than I thought it’d be because the dive kick comes at a shallower angle than I thought, I thought it was more like Adon’s
You couldn’t do a simple cancel, yet the sakura player was doing 1frame links as if it wasn’t lagging… this nigga serious? LOL
Anyway, I got a question that has has stumped me for awhile. Sakura’s DP safe jump and corner fireball setup don’t work against Guy’s EX hurricane kick. I do the proper timing, I even recorded it against another character, yet Guy’s reversal just goes through it. I remember doing it without problem in the past, but for some reason I’m not able to it anymore. Can someone else chime in and help me out? This is the only character I’m aware of that does this.
I’ve never gotten a safe jump to work on Guy that wasn’t Otoshi x3 > tapdown > nj.hk
Yeah the fireball corner setup doesnt seem to work against Sim either, he’s always able to throw you out of it, because the fireball never seems to hit him.