Redesigning and Redefining a Individuality of Shoto Clone to be played as a Shoto Clone


Post your ideas on how to make a shoto clone not play as a clone.

[] The goal is to make the gameplay experience unique but keeping the same nostalgic and iconic identity intact.
] They should play unique but keeping the essence of being related and connected to previous design
[*] Viewers should be able to define the character personality with animation only even without the knowing and understanding the plots, origin and canon stories of that character

Final Version : **

I’m redesigning shoto to play to different from the rest of their counter part. beginning with Sakura.

Yes Gouken and Sean aren’t the same play style but we just include them.

Her SP Moves has fast start up but can be charge by holding the button on execution.
The boost is not for multi hit but for heavy/bigger 1 hit damage…


If that would be the case then Sakura would be someone that excels among the likes of karin, ibuki, elena, mika and makoto because of the accidental and luck to successfully do a variant of a known deadly martial art technique through extensive efforts and focus of doing the likes of hadouken, tatsumaki and shoryuken but without the proper discipline and training. Making her dependent… which would be also good on making why Karin thinks she better than Sakura not by resources but skills and training…

If Sakura would return definitely she should have at least Dan’s influence in her special moves…

Yuri is a good design of a someone aspiring to become as strong like her brother and father giving all her strength that can be seen and reflected in the animation of her special moves.

She could have empower her version of hadouken as special moves similar to Dan in svc, A quicker version a more delayed recovery when fully charged also in close range that can also shield her even from air borne attacks but the longer you hold/charge the button the more it damage(not a multi damage)… the lenght of the time the projectile stays depends on the button that is pushed/the stronger button the more active frame… it’s also inspired from SFA2 and MvS version of her but not upward. The no hold/charge or just tap version is similar to her CVS2 hadouken.

doing dan or yuri projectile stance but the effect is similar to KOF’s bao

Shoryuken could be interesting variant of Yuri’s Chou Knuckle that can be charge a similar fashion of a quick leaping attack but instead of a straight punch it change into a LP/light shoryuken… the stronger the button the farther it gets.

like the alpha generation sakura… I kinda like that fight choreography of sakura againts Ryu… it something i always think how Ryu is better than her…

It’s a slight like of the MvS Sakura but instead of Running and Multi-hiting it becomes leaping, dashing and chargeble for bigger damage…

while the Tatsu is also chargable to a masive damage overhead spining kick… the stronger button the farther the arc.

Take the Ingrid or Kula Version…

Making her unique with chargable specials by holding attack buttons tto boost damage han just another shoto clone…

Next is Dan to be differ to Sean in future updates… he also learn some new stuff and ways from being together with Sakura? or even someway from Blanka not literally special moves but things like practices from patience and cunning ways on applied on his special moves.


His fireball gadoken could evolve into something more innovative and refined by simply making it like KOF’s benimaru… adopting some influences from blanka’s shave roll for it’s multi direction.

LP gadoken as an overhead downward fireball

Hacked version of SF4 idea and credits to error1

The MP gadoken would be the something like the movie version

which is similar to Andy in 2001

SP gadoken is similar to benimaru an upward gadoken as anti air…

Pushing the button rapidly from MP and SP gadouken would make it stay longer

His Dankukyaku

Is evolved into more tactical version of the previous
So that if he would appear together with Sean it be similar

Feilong’s Rekkaken as “special special move”

like the tatsumaki senpuu kyaku of Ryu in the SFEX series

making Dan’s version advance than Sean…

And can be also canceled up a version of Tenmakujinkyaku

somewhat a his SP Moves are mashable version

Dan’s Shoryuken is changed into him “jumping state” with the blocking arm in gesture rather than the traditional fist.

The stronger button the higher the jump upward.

Sean to be not conflicted and differ than Dan he retains his hyper tornado


The goal of this Sagat is to solve the called out problem by just altering his play style away from Ryu, Akuma and Ken without removing any of his special moves or destroying the nostalgic and familiarity his pop culture references from the past games while bringing better emphasis and new intimidating interpretation of the “lesser version” because some lost a lot of option in technicality and application like the new larger and bigger Tiger Shot that lost the range, the conditional Tiger Blow and the new Tiger Wave that only has one version.

What really I did remove was Sagat’s “instant” shotofied playstyle and it’s zoning advantage that i eliminate all his instant ANTI-AIR the same with all his instant PROJECTILE that made him stay in shoto haven’s comfort zone. My Sagat’s normals will play the same way with his previous counterparts but now it will have more importance in close ranged and mid-ranged distance. Because my Sagat will lose the “instant” functionality and technicality advantage of the previous shoto relevance defined moves.

I justify Sagat as a Mu Thai fighter only in his plot and slightly inspired in visuals that they don’t need to compromised with the realistic counterparts or modern interpretation of their martial arts with just the same name because they are not traditional and known to be far more advanced and ahead in their universe to establish such powerful techniques beyond than those we are familiar with and accustomed into the same way I see the fictional counterpart of Yoga in SFverse.

Turn his Upper Tiger Shot as the only Tiger Shot with “special special move” features like Karin’s Guren Ke or K’ Dash’s Ein Trigger from KOF series… cancelable special into a plethora of follow up specials… The faster it comes out and longer active frames depends on which button is pressed.

Now his Tiger Shot is more intimidating because it’s not just a larger version of the previous but much bigger than the version of Wolfgang Krauser’s Kaiser Wave in Fatal Fury but it is change as a close range large projectile that can hit crouching opponent like how Ken’s Hadouken worked in MvSF & MVC2. Successful hit makes the opponent blast into the other corner of the screen same how Ryu’s Hurricane Kick successful hit.

Then removing his low Tiger Shot is a tribute to his SF1 and SF2 movie counterparts that never used a lower version Tiger Shot which is awkward. Imagine Sagat doing lower Tiger Shot in a live action battle or anime it feels like a weird stance despite it’s in game’s usefulness.

New Tiger Shot EX version is SF4 Tiger Uppercut EX version

The K Dash Ein’s Trigger that I commonly used as an example and reference is to describe the execution and somehow functionality is only for describing the follow up option with the my new larger Tiger shot but they differ in usability, properties and especially the follow up possibilities. While his play-style is definitely brand new and nowhere from the likes of Geese, Krauser and K in visual or playability to compare with not even close.

The K Dash Ein’s Trigger that I commonly used as an example and reference is to describe the execution and somehow functionality is only for describing the follow up option with the my new larger Tiger shot but they differ in usability, properties and especially the follow up possibilities. Because the overall design of this Sagat has the same Sagat vibe and flavor from the movesets but without the shoto advantage, shoto goodness or playstyle.

1st SPECIAL - follow up (A)
Sagat can keep his Tiger Blow but not as an “active executable special move” by turning it to a conditional state just like a follow up move to the new Tiger Shot that function like K’ Dash’s Ein Trigger to Second Shell in KOF not as a regular anti- air to toned down it’s responsiveness and effectivity. Whatever button is used to pressed Tiger Blow has all the same ark/range, recovery, speed and damage to it’s SF4’s HP counterpart.

1st SPECIAL- follow up (B)
Another new move is also a follow up to Tiger Shot the “Tiger Slash” with a similar visuals to Reppuken that travels longer to the other side of the screen but on lower part inspired from Geese move Reppuken and Double Reppuken also seen and done by Sagat in the SF4 Viper aftermath movie. Whatever button is used to pressed Tiger Slash has all the same range, recovery, speed and damage to it’s SF4’s HP Tiger Shot.

It’s like K Dash of KOF follow up move to Eins Trigger, The Second Shoot but in a Reppuken style.

Now Tiger Knee into a quick knee charge dash leaping attack like Gouken’ Senkugoshoha instead of an anti air. The faster it comes out and longer active frames depends on which button is pressed.

EX move is Level 1 Tiger Raid from Sagat SF Alpha.

3rd SPECIAL (New)
Tiger Breaker -a quick blockable command grab that he stretches his arms and reach to different direction LP- Front, MP Ground and SP for Upward.

I choose the back breaker to emphasize his intimidating height, body mass and long arms than traditional grabs two hand hugs or grabs then putting a simplified action but with epicness to his knee like how the many see the Ryu Shin-Shoryuken or how Bane did to Batman.

EX version grab is for any direction.

Angry Scar- Give additional follow up “kick” to every non-projectile specials and EX finisher like Tiger Uppercut, Tiger Knee and Tiger Breaker.

When Angry Scar is activated the next Tiger Blow, Tiger Breaker and Tiger Knee will have THAT kick the same finale ender shown in the GIF above. The GIF shows Starlord performing a “Shoryuken” style uppercut with a kick ender. It’s like the bonus follow ups in Spiderman’s Spider Sting and Sean’s Dragon Smash in SF3NG but very different.

My preference of Sagat in SFV will lose his zoning skills effectivity in projectile means to make his play style far from the usual and the likes of Fang or Dhalsim in the game, but keep all of his normals and specials with alteration like the new intimidating Tiger Shot visually similar in Wolfgang Krauser’s Kaiser Wave but different in terms of functionality because it works in a similar manner like K Dash’s Eins Trigger. He may also have the vibe in play style like K Dash a lot in specials minus the DP and teleport but he is unique than ever even if a K Dash alike will be in SFV because even his new only projectile Tiger Slash is never an independent move and turned into a follow up move only as a ground/lower based projectile that loss its overall technicality and application because of the lack of speed control even whatever button is pressed.


Just a slight change on stance* on Hadou Burst…

Shoryuken of Sean known as Dragon Smash of two fist somehow weird and ineffective method with two clench fist than both open palm if its intended purpose was to push away, fend off and hurt. I known it should represent a parody to basket ball maneuvers like “rebound” or a “jump shot” in basketball but it still feel wrong, it should have been more of a body blow because it wasn’t meant to catch or throw his opponent like a ball but instead to “box out” them with the weight of their body. Even in real life basket ball your force in jumping when doing the rebound* and box out to fend off successfully lies in your body, back of shoulders and both of your elbows when doing a jump shot for a ball. It’s should be more of a double cross formed elbow attack like a blocking gesture that pushes the enemy backward.

He doesn’t need to emphasize alot of Ansatsuken Principles in his normals and specials he just only need influence or optional part because he need to be stronger tied to his tradition IMHO. Sean is never the likes of Ken, Ryu, Gouken, Sakura and Akuma that requires very strong devout traditional ties regarding Ansatsuken Principles unless… I prefer the mix.


Difference in terms of visuals

Akuma normal mode has no aura shadow/fog shaded face like Dio in Bandai game. This would brings back that nostalgic feel of spectator and mysterious into Akuma.

Akuma shin mode aura surrounded purple and red with less fog or shadow in the face.

Then making his Oni counterpart as a true “BERSERKER” by starting adjusting his hands gesture to someone who literally throws fireball across all places like a Raging Saiyan by turning all his hadouken into gohado agyo like the above picture.

How to Un-shoto - I made his ground game less responsive with poor ground zoning tools and more start up but gives more multi hiting combos. Seperate every version of akuma from their Aerial Zone Game.

Normal Version has

a) Hyakkishu - not in shin version
b) Tenmakujinkyaku - not in shin version

Shin Version has

a) Dual Aerial Zakuu Hadouken - with the same properties of how Yuri Sakazaki of KOF/AOF Kuuga (Yuri Chou Upper) in “C” button that can be followed up by another version Ura Kuuga (Double Yuri Chou Upper).
b) Shin Tenmakujinkyaku - multi hitting works like MvSF or XvSF counterpart
c) No Hyakkishu and Tenmakujinkyaku

Oni has

a) Gohado Agyo replace Gorai Hadouken and Oni’s Gohadoken- has different from Gouken’s Gohadoken angle

[] LP version works similar like Yuri Sakazaki’s Rai-Oh-Ken in KOF 2000.
] MP version is forward
[*] HP version has the same properties of how Yuri Sakazaki of KOF/AOF Kuuga (Yuri Chou Upper) in “C” button that can be followed up by another version Ura Kuuga (Double Yuri Chou Upper).
The Gohado Agyo EX version same with normal Akuma is an auto 3 hit.
c) No teleport

single agyo

double agyo

Normal Akuma (Non-Shin) Zankuu Aerial Hadou

First we should change his traditional Aerial Hadou … to less exploitable zonning advantage that is not healthy for SFV… Then the range, arc and adjacent is toned down like SFA akuma is changes in SFA2 akuma. The speed of the projectile depend on which the button pressed.

Simple adopting by his SFEX type of Aerial Projectile/Zanku Hadouken but not adding the cancelable the tenmakujinkyaku instead as a *follow up *move. Making it like Bison’s Head Press but instead can be followed up by two moves depending on button pressed.

Down + Punch Button it is followed by a lighter version of Tenma Shurettou/Oni’s Ground Pound

Down + Kick Button it is followed by a Tenmakujinkyaku

Shin’s Aerial Hadouken

Dual Aerial Hadouken - works like to Yuri Sakazaki of KOF/AOF Kuuga (Yuri Chou Upper) in “C” button that can be followed up by another version Ura Kuuga (Double Yuri Chou Upper).

Change his hand to like geese just like throwing fireball

Aerial Hadouken version EX of both is a double aerial hadouken… will not conflict with Shin upgrade during vTrigger mode that is another hadouken is a follow move like Yuri of KOF/AOF Kuuga (Yuri Chou Upper). During EX follow up moves are disabled

Remove his basic ground Hadouken and make Shakunetsu Hadouken his only option to perform ground based projectile. This would decrease his ground zoning advantage and responsiveness. Ex version is a quicker version less start up frames and more hits.

The projectile would have additional frame and an auto 3 hits like SF4 Akuma’s Shakunetsu Hadouken that need 2 fireballs to disperse. The speed of the projectile depend on the button pressed.

Visuals Update is the hand gesture is change/pose/stance is change similar to Demitri’s

EX Shakunetsu Hadouken is a 3 hit tamed version of Messatsu-Gohado Agyo from UMVC3 Akuma.

New Tatsumaki style for Normal and Shin Akuma is using the left to show intentional not a blow hit finisher.

Tatsumaki EX move more hits and juggles state the opponent on last hit.

Oni keeps his traditional Tatsu.

MP-HP Shoryuken differ from before and acts like Mizoguchi or like a quicker version of Kazuya’s lightning screw from Tekken that instead of spining its just doing a mini dash so it’s not as a responsive anti air like it was before but has properties like dodge and dash that stays alot more time on the ground more before going straight upward. The range of dash depends on which button is pressed.

When it connects and near to a an enemy the initial hit then proceeds to multi hit. So it still can do the classic famed Akuma combos like Tatsumaki then followed by a Shoryuken are still possible.

Shoryuken EX move acts like a counter X-Ability in Xmen COTA

  1. In close distance it execute a 5 Hit Shoryuken

  1. In far distance it execute Tenma Shurettou

Shin’s Teleport has Time Pause/Slow



Anti air




Tatsumaki needed some new inspiration new for choreography…

Tekken’s Akuma Tatsumaki Senpuu Kyaku choreography and animation is perfect for Gouken…
The hits and active frame depend on which of the button pressed.

Anti air? in case

Make a similar manner to Shoryuken without closing the fist or using the palm instead.

Another take is using the LEFT instead of the right or the elbows.

**Ken? **

Ken has already interesting versions of tatsumaki in SFV… in the new game the rest i suggest is a minor movement and stance change in future games.

Hadouken? slightly* altered in stance to the version Ryu and Akuma… making his not clench palm with same angle of andy that is more bend lower and towards. Ken is stylish and fashionable in ways but not so relaxed.

or like Ken

Then in Shoryuken

turn it like to Sailor Venus Version in the lower body positioning


Just slightly* change his tatsumaki kyaku stance that is still moving towards not properties since it’s not multi hitting* similar to Cody in Final Fight Revenge and Omega Mode Cody.

Simply by making his other leg lesser stiff* than akuma and sakura why? for him giving more for power and focus on the spinning leg that blow the opponent in the other side of the screen…

Sprites by Kojunho from Mugen…

Ryu’s shoryuken special move has always been either 1-2 hit variants…

the 3 shoto can still have the same version for the LP version akuma and ken

MP SRK the dual hitting shoryuken that start from the lower

Ryu’s HP SRK would be have stronger damage than the rest…


Marco’s/Kashunod’s start up frame when charging his… it looks like its going to dodge an attack then starts charge his hadouken…

Hadouken that is chargeble even in air to Denjin.

When full charge it can be canceled into a special type of shoryuken powered up the hado-Shoryuken from UMVC3.

And make his Super Hadouken like Oni and Gouken or his UMVC3 counterpart that have a homing anti air capabilities…

E-Ryu is the same with Akuma Shoryuken and Tatsumaki

No chargeble hadouken has knockdown close range shakunetsu hadoken from SFZ1
Has shakunetsu hadoken,

Can be the same with demitri hands mentioned in Akuma

Teleport needs to be a different take from Akuma…

Everyone had same command execution while stance and gesture are slightly altered to have their own individuality different takes on their moves but not so far or different that is still keeping the nostalgic and purist feel and influences from their originator.

I believe nostalgic and iconic SF characters should be defined by their devout techniques/special moves as their “branding” or “style guide” like hadoken and sonic boom than their realistic just similar named combat disciplines. Because those are the most frequently used for linking and remembering than their story, name and fictional martial arts as reference but that is a different case when were doing it for new characters inspired by real life persons like Tekken usually does.

Version 1



Other References

Some projectile/hadouken alike stance in other FG

Some shoryuken alike in other FG

some teleportation like Asura warp


I think you’re putting a bit too much thought into how an iconic character should change. I’d start with giving them things the fans liked/wanted then removing something if it isn’t useful.
-Basic set of normals is okay, leans her more toward an aggressive playstyle
-CvS2 was the best version of Sakura, and some shared traits between her there and in Omega mode are a dive kick special and a hadoken-strike instead of a traditional projectile.
-SF4 took her a different direction by giving her the frames and data of a glass-cannon/brawler hybrid. She was effective, if a bit boring.
-What sets Sakura apart from the other shotos is that she always puts 100% of her power behind each attack. This is why her Tatsu and Shoryuken move her so far horizontally.
-Because of the above, the best changes she could get are an even shorter fireball that isn’t for zoning and a dive kick special to make her aggressive play more diverse

-Actually does have some unique animations, and new ones could easily be added as “expanding his style”
-Even from SSF2, Akuma’s defining trait was having more options than any other character, but his poor health mandated that he always play well because there’s little room for error with his defenses
-Thus, to keep Akuma who he is without sacrificing anything important, I would leave “holes” in his moves that increase the opportunity cost of using them. The Goshoryuken is already horribly unsafe, and removing his jump-back fireball prevents him from covering a retreat. The real offenders are his ground hadoken, which in the context of Street Fighter is neither flashy nor high risk/reward, and his Tatsu, which is pretty bland and in-line with what the other shotos have. I would have Akuma throw multiple ground projectiles at a time, with the recovery and start up to prevent it from being useful in repetition. In the MvC games, his Tatsu had purple energy and actually destroyed projectiles. This would be a really fun twist on Ryu’s tatsu passing through projectiles,

The others either don’t need serious changes or just aren’t relevant.


Some were just about animation just trying to picture a different version the same way capcom did to SFV’s Ken or how Snk would handle the AOF team to be applied with the ShotoWarriors

Just a slight adjustment on stance and animation… but mostly his dependent on aerial hadou when use casually unlike the SFEX version…

Wow that a nice idea through its like his parrying projectile with kick attacks

Just minor change of choreography in the stance and animation… so visually not a clone or just the same animation but different properties…

I like how capcom evolve special moves from the likes of Dan in SF4, Dhalsim Sf5, Nash Sf5 and Ken in Sf5(not his art direction)…


Sagat another version

Tiger Shot as a greater than half screen-range projectile like Kaiser Wave

No lower Tiger Shot

Now Tiger Shot Acts like K’

That can be either

Tiger Uppercut…

or Tiger Shot like Reppuken that travels longer to the other side of the screen

Tiger Knee is the same of version 1

Ryu another version

Same with other moves from above

but with new

Hadouken a dodge like feature on start up

Hadouken that is chargeble…
When full charge it can be canceled into a special type of shoryuken powered up the hado-Shoryuken from UMVC3 and SF2V series.

Akuma’s lower hadokens update

Akuma lower hadoken is an auto 3 hits but have slow start up than any other hadokens…

hadouken pose start up crumple or block stun near by opponent

Same with other moves from above


**Unconventional dash type TELEPORT references ** -for Shoto type warriors (V.Ken, E.Ryu, Akuma, S.Akuma, CyberAkuma, D.Sakura and Oni?

1.) Teleports with time delay properties

Somehow K’ HSDM has the same feel with SFV’s Nash

Like the eye imagine it with akuma’s red eyes and time stop feel could combine into one idea.

from proxicide SFxMK flash movie…

Can work like Final Psycho Crusher from SFA3 not as a super with a time stop but as a teleport with a time slow or time stop. Preferred for the likes of Shin Gouki or Oni.

2.) Invincibility passing through dash

A counter activated teleport that is preferred for the likes of those that are lesser than Akuma like E.Ryu and etc.

Amakusa has more invincible and more responsive teleport similar to Akuma. This kind of Teleport would be better with Shin Akuma or Oni type version.

If ever they would have EX version of teleport someday.

Been researching other fighting games stuff and convert some it to Gifs

Other boss, obscure, bizarre and weird related shoto sp moves stuff

Monster Mauler’s Diablo has Hadouken and Tatsumaki feel like a Blanka and Oni in one.

Get Over here!! Black Widow from Capcom’s Slam Master hadouken that pull toward opponents like MK’s Scorpion.

Sheng Long(not sf related) telekenetic hadouken grab… Ermac?


same game Gowkaiser that boss ohga got a similar shoryuken and projectile…


Go hibiki by DarkMasterS from Mugen.

Weird kind of hadouken that push the enemy on the side of the screen and explode.

Goutetsu Update

Tatsumaki… mix robert with kim



Other capcom usual known stuff



and Gene splice…

SFV Character Request/Anticipation Thread

Akuma Update


Update from other threads Sakura, Dan, Sean and Sagat. bonus Haggar

Bonus Haggar[details=Spoiler]


Why you tryin to reinvent the wheel?


The idea is inspired by the changes i have seen lately with Ken’s hurricane kick variants in SFV and the variant of Gouki in Tekken. Just giving insights for Capcom to expand their ideas because those archetype of characters is bound often to be with each other in a single game and they are also bound to be reinvented in time. Many even non-casuals knows Ken play technically different from Ryu but still want desires a different Ken. Because Shoto are known as clone not for the technicalities and properties of their moves but for the animation, pose and stance as well.

The goal is to avoid the likes of Ken’s Hadouken in Omega mode while having individuality, experiences, style and personality in their moves even without knowing their plots and current stories. The example would be like the concepts and ideas of SNK for the AOF team or Kyokugenryu Karate practitioners in KOF series that has variant not from random difference but rather variants based from personality, experiences, individuality and style reflected in to their moves but still rooted to their "fictional"combat discipline except Robert in KOF 2003.

In the end it’s all Capcom’s preference it’s just to avoid something out place that why it’s more on reference and explanation. It’s not to change or be just different in time but to deliver a whole new perspective and bringing a characterization to a fighter rather than just random changing of animation, pose and stance to be different and unique. It’s like making a company branding or style guidelines but instead for a fictional combat practice and discipline of fictional fighters.


only stopping by to say jesus christ that OP is long. :o


I like howoutside of few posts this thread is basically op talking to himself :rofl:

OP needs jesus


i have a feeling what he is saying is interesting but i cant be bothered to read it :frowning: