Relative benefits of circle vs 8 way stick


#1

might be modding a tf2 with one of these and was wondering what the pros and cons of each are

and thanks


#2

If by “8 way” you mean octagon then its really just preference.

Get both restrictors and try them out.


#3

It just comes down to personal preference. The 8 way gate has corners in each position you can feel and put your stick into. The circle gate would be easier to ride the gate since there are no corners.

in terms of joystick movement and how far you need to move for each direction, its almost exactly the same.

http://i.imgur.com/inyhxaf.png?1


#4

Those diagrams are faulty because they assume the neutral zone is fixed between different joysticks (definitely not the case), the author varies the neutral % based on the shapes, and he doesn’t factor in the extra distance into a direction that an octagon provides.

It is certainly true that circles and octagons reduce throw into diagonals versus a square, of course, I’m just saying that the slagcoin diagrams are misleading. Not disagreeing with any advice given so far, try them all and see what you like best.


#5

None at all. Circle you lose corners, so you will never know when you’re in one.


#6

?? Octagonal gates do not give you any extra distance into corners, square still has more distance.


#7

Which is why I said “It is certainly true that circles and octagons reduce throw into diagonals versus a square, of course”

Versus a circle they do, the actuator fits into the notch a bit. I say that because the diagrams posted have diagonals for circle gates and diagonal gates both at 6%. The diagrams are a geometry exercise that has little bearing on reality. Yes, your throw into diagonals is greatest with a square, but there are other variables that they leave out, namely engage distance and total gate size relative to it.


#8

I strongly feel beginner players have no business playing on a Octagonal gate.
Try learning on a Square gate first, especially if/when you have to factor in the times you have to play on a loner stick


#9

I’m told octagonal gates are good for 3D games. I don’t play these games so don’t completely understand why =)

Octagonal gates are also good if you want to reduce the chances of someone asking to borrow your stick.


#10

You don’t take into account that the actuator wouldn’t fit into that notch perfectly because it’s circle, not edged. Jeez man.


#11

I heard the oversized actuator from Focus Attack is the only way to make them work.
I bought a circle gate without one, and corners were literally not possible


#12

You heard wrong. People were using circle or octagonal gates since before those were being sold. What on earth. If the throw is too short and stopping the actuator from engaging the switches, then that’s the fault of the gate being designed shitty.


#13

The original orange color octagonal gate been designed by Sanwa it self for use with their own JLF joysticks, it was intend to be used with the stock gate.
And at least 2 of the circular gates are also intended to be used with the stock gate, I can say with certainty that the original GT-C Circular Restrictor by Toodles and the Paradise GT-O Circle Restrictor was designed with the stock actuator in mind.


#14

You’re right that it doesn’t fit perfectly, but it does go out a bit more. Trying circular gates on the Hayabusa with its stock actuator, good diagonal function required circle had to be so large that it felt like a square due to hitting the limits of the microswitches. Not so with an octagon, even the gt-y gate mod will work (not that great, but it does work). Anyways, my point here is that the engage zones in slagcoin’s diagrams are inaccurate- use an octagon on a 56 or a circle on a 32 and you’ll find your diagonal reach to be much more than 6% due to the tight engage zone. The neutral zone assessment is really my big beef with those diagrams being taken as gospel.


#15

Looking at the title I want to clear up a misconception, Unless you set your gate for 4-way play the JLF, and JLW stock in its stock configuration, all Seimitsu Joysticks and the Hayabusa are 8 way joysticks despite having a square gate.


#16

Yes, corners =/= number of directions. A stick is only 4 way if diagonals are blocked.


#17

Did the circle gates have the same diameter as the width of the octagonal gates? When both are the same, it doesn’t matter if it’s circle or octagon, it will be the same for the corners. The Slagcoin diagrams are not wrong when you look at the gates being the same size. Jeez man, I know slagcoin isn’t always accurate but on those diagrams they’re correct. Neutral is just an example, of course different sized actuators will give you different neutrals. That should be a given, and the points of the diagrams is to illustrate diagonals vs cardinals when using those setups.

Are you comparing different gates on different sticks? That’s another flawed variable you have there. You’d need the same size gates on the same stick using the same actuator, and you’d see circle and octagonal will be the same for the most part, possibly even less on the octagonal because the actuator is round and won’t fit into the corner perfectly unlike the circle.


#18

Looking at slagcoin’s diagrams of circle, octagon, and square, we see listed neutral zones as 19%, 18%, and 11% (http://slagcoin.com/joystick/restrictors.html). A lever’s neutral zone does not change when you use a different gate. Again, I get that the point is that diagonal throw is by far the largest on a square, I’m just saying that there’s a clear hole in slagcoin’s diagrams regarding the neutral zone (or deadzone, as SC calls it). His descriptions are fine until he starts talking about deadzones.


#19

I’ll give you Slagcoin is full of shit and a mess and I’ve always said that myself, but I was pointing out the diagrams are correct as far as showing corners being the same on circle vs octagonal. None of his descriptions in the paragraphs below the diagrams are correct, but those diagrams do a good job illustrating corners. Neutrals aren’t really a factor when looking at those because like I pointed out earlier, actuators are not square, they’re round.

Back to your comment, octagon will not give more distance for diagonal throw for a number of reasons, as I pointed out actuators are cylindrical so they won’t touch the edge of the corner. For an octagonal gate to have the same distance to a circle gate you’d have to design the octagonal gate to have a little more width than the circle gate’s diameter, and this is because a cylinder actuator won’t rest in the corner of the octagon all the way like it would rest on the edge of a circle.

The neutral being right/wrong doesn’t even matter because depending on the gate design, it would be the same if that was the intent of the gate design. Otherwise, the design of the gate could have a different intention other than simple shapes, such as longer throw, shorter throw, and so on.


#20

Yeah, the total width of the gate is the critical thing really. Guess I was thinking too much of the 56 “octagon” and kowal’s 56 inspired gates where the points are rounded so that the actuator fits neatly into corners.