Remembering Beeshu, the best maker(?) of pre-Street Fighter II joysticks

#1

I don’t know when fight sticks took off as a competitive cottage industry and small-mass-market company that Mad Catz became. I guess Mad Catz is RIP. Now Hori is the big joystick multi-console maker.

But before there was a Mad Catz, even before Street Fighter 2, there was a company promising the competitive edge. They aligned themselves as the Official Joystick of the US National Video Game Team.

The were Beeshu. They promised better scores or your money back. Why?

Pads are cheap, and there is a reason why the saying “being all thumbs” means “clumsy” not being dexterous. I remember the Intellivision joystick being one I wouldn’t want to play with. The Coleocvision was better than the INTV, because I found a technique for that that works well. Enough people assume it’s a thumbstick based on cursory non-specific Colecovision searches. You will not get good reflexes thinking of it as a thumbstick. I pinch the joystick with my thumb holding the south rim, and the index finger holding the north rim, and moved the joystick decently in a 2 finger claw. Atari 5200 had a misunderstood innovation, an analog stick. Unfortunately the game design of those arcade conversions made more games suffered from the analog than benefit by it, and Nintendo learned on their N64 pad to offer a digital option built in, because they read about 5200 joystick complaints, including it’s non-self-centering (which did play well in the analog 5200 games at the time, like Missile Command, Super Breakout, Kaboom, and Star Wars: The Arcade Game).

Then the NES came along and reinvented the Home Market. It used a d-pad. I, doing what comes naturally, put the NES pad on the floor, and used my index and middle fingers on both the D-Pad, and had the index finger on the B button, and middle on the A button. I never knew you were supposed to hold it. And the way I “held” the controller I was fairly accurate.

Then came the Genesis controller. The cardnials were less defined and if you see your fingers tend to “roll” into the diagonals, so with the pad, I was making unintentional Diagonals. The final straw for the way I held it was the SNES controllers which had the audacity to make you reach in front of your controller (my perspective on shoulder buttons) I tried to rearrange the controllers so I don’t need to press them in a dire situation.

During the NES days, Dad went to a local video store, (which had a fire within 24 hours of Blockbuster breaking ground in our neighborhood.) and rented NES games. That was the only place we saw Tengen Tetris. (Unfortunate that had to go up in smoke.) They had NES Pac-Land, which I did decently at but said I’d do better with a Joystick. So next time, he rented a Beeshu Jazz. I played it and had my best score.

I did not know that Tengen Tetris, Pac-Land and a Beeshu Jazz were all unauthroized accessories. Remember I was used to the Colecovision, where there was no such thing as licensing, and Nintendo was marketing their hysteria about all 3 will break your console. Based on what happened, my score improved and I played games that were better than 75% of the NES authorized games.

This thing is only tangentially dealt with licensing, but I noticed the Joystick gave me power. Dad saw it and decided to buy an NES advantage. We tried it at the store, the turbo and slo-mo were not displayed well with Super MArio Brothers as the demo game for the Advantage. The worst part was it was Left Handed. At the time, before the NES, most games offered mirrored buttons on both sides. The arcade scene was competitive, and even though there were longer credits, those longer credits were exhibitions to increase sales in the game. So despite having longer games, the showing of a great game generated more quarters and made the arcade more social.

This was before Jamma, this beofre the deliberate left-hanidng of joysticks as a standard> The quesiotn is why do that? Who is the arcade game’s direct customer, the player, or the operator? Since Operators pay for a machine and make money back in proportion to credits played, the Operator would usually want to shortened credits, especially on a new game, (Cleveland arcades didn’t do that until the NES games, when NIntendo had their own cabinets) S o beciuase the operator pays the biilll, and most places notice higher revenue from left-hand only machine than right-hand-only or ambidextrous machines of the same title, plus Donkey Kong being the first big game to cement that idea. (their reason was not calculated. It was they werer recycling Radarscope machines, and Radarscope was a shooter, so the fire button was more emphasized, hence on the right.) The funny thing about Donkey Kong was that most of the playesr I witnessed in the top 10 for the local location crossed their wrists. It may be anecdotal, but that’s what I saw. Maybe it’s a Cleveland thing.

Beeshu realizing this made a bold claim. Better scores or your money back. How could they make that claim? 3 reasons.

  1. The wrist/arm movements on stick and fw2 independnet fingers on 2 separate fcire buttons were quicker and more exact than a thumb on the stick, and a thumb shared between 2 buttons.
  2. Compared to the NES advantage, which has a circular restrictor and a rocker stick, Beeshu had square restrictors, and higher quality “clicky joysticks”.
  3. Most of their models were right-hand exclusive, except for one model, which was Ambidextrous, the Superstck

They had to get noticed, especially in the licensing hysteria of Nintendo asking for their “protection money” almost guaranteeing your nintendo will break if you don’t use official Nintendo stuff, (plus the fact they were looking for ways to actively “shut out” games and controllers that weren’t licensed to the point of causing a fire if you dare buy a NON-official NES game, so it seems apporporiate) so they put an “Official Seal” on it, but not the Official Nintendo seal. Instead they had US National Gaming Team, and after my experience I believe that a real good video game player gets better scores on a Beeshu.

I never owned a Beeshu in the day, (remember Advantage) but I have a story in the Street Fighter New Challengers era for SNES and Genesis that is believable. I was one of the worst at Street Fighter. But I played pretty well when they had the “lefty vs righty” machines, and I chose the right handed side. I knew what to do, but was all thumbs in pressing it on a pad. Then I was all thumbs trying to press a Dragon Punch command on a left-handed stick in the Arcade. My will-to-execution ration was less than 5%, and the few times I was able to will myself to a dragon punch, it was telegraphed, blocked and countered.

True story where right makes might

Since there were no 6-button right handed sticks for the SNES or Genesis, I decided why not. I worte to Nintendo and Sega. Nintendo told me just to practice and beat the left-handed people. Sega actually offered a solution: KY Enterpirises as a custom Joystick maker. I thought they were col because they were recommended by Sega.

First KY Enterprises is not Beeshu, the buttons were in right hand countour, despite being left-hand buttons, and the joystick broke down after 2 weeks.

But despite that I went from Zero to Hero when playing new challengers on the Genesis. There were two 6-button pads. But I brought my own stick. I was beating everyone. I got so bored I quit, I was perfect that day.

One of my friends asked why I did so well, I said it was my right handed joystick that made the difference. he didn’t believe it. So I asked other firends if they’d like to try my joystick. Seeing that I improved, they were glad to try.

He said a joystick might give someone an improvement, but not a right handed one. So I asked tem to sometimes play rigth handed, sometimes left. You think a left handed person would improve people… not as much as you think. My cocky friend shut out a few people, and some of the better people were about the same left stick vs left pad, maybe slightly better.

But give the non-bragging friend a right handed stick, despite the wrong contour, they all beat mny bragging friend 100% of the time, even those who went 0-for against hi with a left stick were perfect when right handed.

The proof that one of my friends that we all beat later became a gaming pro / star

And the funniest thing is that braggy friend went on the become a 2-time all-around televised gaming competitor. Winning Life to the Power of X on Spike TV, and he parlayed that victory into an appearance on WCG Ultimate Gamer. He came in 3rd, and there is a possible conspiracy theory that they wanted him to be eliminated as soon as possible for the first nationally televised teabagging of Dante. Lisa Leslie made him the last place dunker by giving him terrible marks. Thankfully he tied for first among 7 in NBA Live to avoid an elimination game. He lost because there was a surprise elimination in the game of 4 Halo players, where he came in third. This was a strange surprise. In the second year, after the round of 4, there is was a round of 3 of playing a never-released-yet game and seeing who is best in figuring out a new game.

He is Jamal “Zophar321” Nickens. A firend of mine since before high school, and a neighbor in my old neighborhood. One time he signed up on Shoryuken just to deny this story. I asked why he said I was lying, he said “that never happened”, a bold face lie, that all my friends know he’s lying about.

I’m not accusing my friend of being a bad player. He explains that big loss, and I agree with the reasons.

So we talked in private, and I asked him, and he told me in privately that he knows that happened, but has a reputation in the fighting game community, and doesn’t want to be trashed. So I asked, what caveats do you want me to add that will explain it better and make it sound like he wasn’t a scrub player.

I told him the exact reason why I tell this story is because it’s a great sales pitch of the advocacy of an ambidextrous stick. I want him to even sponsor it if a company wants to use my story to sell sticks. The fact that the only thing separating a champ from becoming a chump was the equipment is a great sales pitch for the equipment. He probably couldn’t remember each individual win because they were so frequent that the losses stick out.

So He told me to say that was a moment in time. If we try to recreate it, he’d probably do better. I agree. I admit he’d no longer take a knife to a gun fight. He knows if he’s competing in fighting games bring your own fight stick. He won’t use a default Sega Genesis 6-button pad.

Remember this was New Challengers days, where the internet wasn’t big, so there was not much news of people buying custom sticks. I did something considered radical back then.

He has said I’d be most competitive in Street Fighter 2 era games, where the special moves did lots of damage compared to standard moves, and combos weren’t as important as hitting specials at will and as a surprise, except if you have a combo that ends in a special.

Games since then weakened the specials, and instead of small natural combos that were a side effect of the game engine, games were built, nay, engineered, with ridiculous combos, so much so that games since SF IV tell you the combos, you just have to execute them, with no guides on timing issues, so you have no idea how the combo works until you discover it, and then you “just get it”, with Marvel games being hilariously combo-centric games.

And on a personal level, Jamal was 3 years younger, and got better at games, so much so that he later appeared on TV, while I went to a psychiatric hospital and got a medicine which slows down my reflexes. And never got my competitive yen back until Pepsi Max. My SNES Smash TV performance went WAY down after my medicine, and that’s when I realized I lost my skills, at least until Pepsi Max came out.

Finally, Jamal wasn’t a scrub even them. Among our 8 friends, we played a multi-game all around tournament, we played about 50 some games, and he LITERALLY NEVER got worse than 3rd out of 8 in 50 Plus titles. Guaranteed Bronze or better. That’s probably why he shines best in multi-game tournaments and surprise tournaments. The funny was the best I ever got was second, and each of the times I was second, Jamal is the one who gets first, so I have never in 50 games been better than Jamal. A few other people got first in some games. So Jamal is not unbeatable, just unbeatable by me.

And you see why I remember my rIght-handed fight stick story so well… “Dog Bites Man” is not news. “Man Bites Dog” is front page headlines.

Back to Beeshu, Nintendo was unwilling to license a Beeshu stick, despite the fact they were high quality sticks. Nintendo didn’t want hep making third party accessories when the Beeshu came out. They were rightly concerned. Does anyone actually prefer an off-the-shelf joystick that was neither the NES advantage nor a Beeshu model? And anyone without using google NAME such a stick? They thought scare tactics would discourage sales.

But Beeshu stuck around. They made a Master System and Turbo Grafx version of a Beeshu Superstick. Sega didn’t have a licensing program in the Master System days, and Beeshu got the NEC license. Later Beeshu made the Gizmo, a 3-button ambidextrous joystick, and because Sega had a licensing program, got a Genesis license. Originally Nintendo wanted to protect the market against cheap knockoffs of inferior quality. But calling Beeshu inferior quality when it passed NEC and Sega’s quality controls made them look greedy and hypocritical. So the NES-licensed Supersticks were made.

A couple questions. I have a Beeshu Jazz as well as a SMS and TG16 Superstick. I may consider buying an NES Superstick. Like it matters at this point, but is there a way you can tell the difference between an NES-licensed Superstick, and a NES-non-licensed Superstick? Were all Beesh controller considered retroactively licensed and approved by Nintendo, or only the models with an NES seal on the box didn’t violate licensing?

I believe that there are 3 reasons that make a Beeshu joystick a performance enhancement: better joystick, square gate, and ambidextrous/right-handed.

But Beeshu had a problem: With an ambidextrous design, if they followed the logic of the Superstick and Gizmo design, they’d have to have 12 buttons on a 6 button stick. Plus there’s an issue that’s rarely discussed in right handed sticks: Mirror mapping vs Shadow mapping. The buttons on the right side are easy, but the left leaves a couple of questions. If the right hand button arrangement is ABC, what should be the left handed one?

For most games, I’d say CBA. This is what I call an Index-to-index mapping. If A is the trigger you have to hit rapidly, then you want your index finger to do it, hence CBA with the left hand. Sega didn’t realize that an when their right buttons on the pad were mapped 1 2 their left hand buttrons were also 1 2, so if you need instant access to the 2 button, you’d have to rapid pump your middle finger to rapid fire 1. I know why Sega made a right handed fight stick, but not why they didn’t mirror map the buttons.

However there are 3 games I can think of (maybe more, let me know) where the eography of a left and right action are more dominant than the concept of main and aux. Tutankham for Colecovision has left and right fire. 2 Turbo rafx games also have this geography based layout, Side Arms and Pac Land. In the TG16, when use the Beeshu and I play with a right stick, I have to flip my thinking, always thinking right to fire left and left to fire right, but moving is left to go left and right to go right. Becuase the stic is normal but thebuttons are

II I S i II
which is
R L S L R

This confusion would have anyone double guessing their moves. And focus is vital, and double guessing takes you out of the game. If the controls aren’t intuitive, then that’s an extra layer of brain cells taken off watching the TV and concentrating on your arms in space.

That’s one of the secrets, with moves coming naturally when using a right handed stick, I use less brain power in controlling the stick. It’s more instinctive. With less brain power going to my arms trying (and usually failing) to do dragon punches, more brain power could be used to watching the TV and formulating a strategy. Also specials in addition to being more accurate, are pulled off a lot quicker with less telegraphing and more surprises.

And when your specials are as natural as thinking in less than a frame you want a special, in a Street Fighter 2 era game, that goes a long way. It’s less powerful in newer games for the reasons in one of the spoilers.

When a joystick becomes as natural as thinking and reacting, that’s when you get your best moments. Ever notice why no one replicates the “Defender Layout”, except those trtying to world record Arcade defender and Stargate, and most emulators and home versions use instead of thrust and reverse buttons, use left and right on the stick, even back in the 2600 and 5200 days at home. That was a good looking game, that part fo the challenge was learning the exotic control scheme. I don’t know if that game did well BECAUSE if its controls, or DESPITE its controls. Also would Twin Galaxies consider the Arcade version a separate score and home and emulator versions, and for that game would the original layout be a requirement for the Arcade score.

1 Like
#2

Hori was always big, and they made amazing arcade sticks before Mad Catz decided to jump in onto the FGC. All Mad Catz did was make Hori realize there competition and Hori reacted by stepping up their game.

Beeshu was never good, I had some of their products back in the day. They at best was passable and thats mostly their game pads. Their Sticks were junk, especially their ambidextrous sticks. They also made a bunch of silly shit that just didn’t need to be, like this clunky space fighter toy that happens to be a SNES game pad. It was hard to hold and it was not that responsive.

If you spend half the time and effort getting used to Proper joysticks as you spend trying to convince others that ambidextrous sticks are needed, you get used to it and play normally.

#3

+1

Hori have always been big

MadCatz done a good job, and they came in at the right time got the licence for sf4 and rode the wave that was the rebirth of fighters on the new generation of consoles

1 Like
#4

@darksakul I agree. The spaceship SNES pad is both offensive to both me and you. That was the last product they made. It was so unlike everything else Beeshu did. Did Beeshu have a corporate philosophy change between the SuperStick era and SNES Spaceship era? They probably changed, because it was cheap to put 2 buttons on both sides, slightly more expensive to go a Genesis Gizmo with 3 buttons, and ridiculously more expensive to do a 6 button Genesis and SNES on both sides. So they either had to re-engineer the ambidextrous design, or abandon the partner that got them to the dance. They chose the latter.

All right @darksakul, if Beeshu ambidextrous joystick were the worst joystick, then can you name some better Pre-Street Fighter 2 era OFF-THE-SHELF joysticks? I know with enough money, talent, and other resources, you can custom make what you want, so I’m not talking the ideal but actual mass-produced off-the-shelf varieties.

Is the Beeshu joystick a worse quality joystick than say the NES Advantage with its rocker stick, circular restrictor, and forced-left-handed design? I’d be be willing to defend to the hilt the advantages of the Beeeshu SuperStick vs the Advantage. Even Nintendo eventually agreed it was quality and not a cheap cash-in rip-off by letting Beeshu buy a license.

By the way, what criteria are you using to judge a stick. You always poo-pooed my idea of a right handed joystick being a big performance enhancer. And I agree a quality ambidextrous joystick is better than a shoddy ambidextrous joystick. The question is, are the features you list by themselves a better performance enhancement than ambidexterity by itself?

And probably some would say yes, others no. I guess it also depend won where you start from and where you end up to. If you start losing to your friends all the time, to never losing against your friends (at least for 2 weeks, before the custom joystick broke down), and one of your friends is a famous pre-Twitch 2000s gamer, and he’s the one that poo-pooed right handed sticks (just like you) and went 0-for vs right hand you could see why I spread the right handed gospel. I’ll even admit some caveats that make it less like to happen with today’s games, like “button dancing combos” and moves with “chording”. But during New Challengers, where specials had to be earned and were not guaranteed, and specials were way proportionately more powerful than basics, he who executes specials bests wins the most games. SF1 was even MORE SO that way.

What about the joystick was inferior? It was refreshing to me to see right handed joysticks, and they were the only ones catering to that market. That’s why they were bold enough to offer a “better scores or your money back” claim. They put their money where their mouth was.

I’m not saying the difference will be that big for everyone. But what do you lose by making it ambidextrous? The main thing I see is a button contour has to be optimized for ambidexterity as opposed to individual comfort for one hand.

For a custom joystick that may be bad to design it that way, but I have beaten SF IV one credit with E Honda on a left handed stick, and based on my gameplay, rapid firing Hundred Hand Slaps with a left finger is slower for the mediums and heavies with buttons on left than right. So there are times I want left stick. So ambidexterity is handy for me.

If you want to ask why most joysticks after the crash were left handed, ask yourself, “Where do the game companies get their arcade revenue from?” Operators pay the game companies. How do operators make more money, by shortening credits. This was discovered by accident due to Nintendo being frugal.

Donkey Kong when it was first released was not considered a bargain for the player. It had punishing difficulty for when it came out. At the time I seen people die all 3 times on level 1. I was one of them when I was 7. Half the reason is getting used to the Nintendo-mandated left handed joystick. (Remember, they were recycling Radarscope machines, so left handed wasn’t a diabolical choice for Nintendo, but one of necessity.) If succeeded despite its bass ackward controls. It had a story, it was colorful, The Mario running “tricks” of suspenders and a hat made for good gaming character animation. It was like Dragon’s Lair in terms of animation, but a deeper game play than just reacting to a movie. Plus it invented the “run and jump” genre in the arcade. (Space Panic is technically considered the first platformer, but there was no jumping, DK was going in a different direction. Also Pitfall invented it in the home market and that’s the best selling 2600 cartridge of all time.)

So if Donkey Kong wasn’t THAT revolutionary of a game, we’d still be buying right handed joysticks, and enough third parties would make lefties and ambies. That’s how powerful Nintendo was back then. They single-handedly imposed the lefty standard at home. Atari fought it, Sega went along with it with the pad, but fought it with their arcade joystick. Both failed.

#5

@darksakul say the Beeshu joysticks were junk. I say they were the best at the time. How could we get 2 very starkly different opinions about the same thing? He says it’s trash, I say it’s the best legal performance enhancement.

Anyone else want to talk about the NES Advantage, the Beeshu Superstick, or some other NES fight sticks that are too obscure to remember today unless someone brings ti up?

I haven’t seen him give evidence otherwise, but until he does, it seems like he’s hating on the very concept of a right handed stick, in almost an “ableist” way, akin to making fun of people in wheelchairs. Every time I make a right handed comment, @Darksakul is quick to refute it. I said the Street FIghter 15 should be given some points for “easy right-hand-moddability” No other off-the-shelf PS2 stick has that feature.

#6

All right @darksakul I understand this is a free world, and we make choices that make sense for us individually and/or societally.

For the sake of this question, let’s ignore ambidexterity as a feature. Since Ambidexterity ALONE helped be get better scores simply because of right handed play (Why do I say that? The KY Enterprises SG/SNES joystick I had was an obviously inferior joystick, with a rocker mechanism, and buttons drilled to be button-right contoured, plus there were other problems with the spacing, very large gap between both rows, and between columns. It was in a lot of aspects inferior to the 6 button Genesis and SNES fight sticks at the time, but the one thing it had was ambidexterity, Despite all those obstacles, I shut out everyone at Street Fighter 2 NC, and everyone else shut out the cocky one who later appear twice on national basic cable TV playing all-around gaming competiitions, winning once, and had a controversial third place elimination, simply by using a right handed joystick.) let’s assume for the sake of discussion that all the NES joysticks had ambidexterity. I’m willing to take that concept off the table and focus on other aspects.

The NES had a rocker mechanism joystick, while the Beeshu Superstick has a more Clicky input system. Hey @darksakul, I don’t know whether you prefer rocker sticks over clicky sticks, but if you do, that would be a perfectly logical explanation to why you prefer the NES Advantage over the Beeshu Superstick. I’ll take your word for it, but if you want to prove your history on SRK, you can link to an earlier conversaiton where you prefer a rocker over a clicky.

Both have adjustable turbo, both have slo-mo, and in some game tournaments and world record hunts that would be considered cheating, so that’s not a factor.

Both buttons have a similar diagonal layout. So it’s not the layout. Both buttons are mashers, and have a non-metallic non-clicky contact that sounds more plasticky, so there is no difference.

I’ve come to one of 2 conclusions, looking at it objectively, unless you see something I don’t see, you either prefer rockers over clikcy joysticks, or you’re being a sinister (in the Latin sense of a left handed joystick) dictator who wants to standardize the left-stick style. You want to be like Polo, where all riders are right handed.

Of course, there may be a practical reason why you want to impose unidexterity. The main reason for that rule in Polo is to prevent horse head-on collisions and prevent spooking your opponent’s horse. In the arcade, it’s practical to have one standard layout to economize the layout table, and remember, the arcade’s purpose is to maximize money coming in, so shorting their credits by making it harder to execute is a legal way to do it. But in the home market, what’s the purpose? If it’s legal to optimize your custom layout in one fashion, like a more optimized button arrangement, or a Hitbox/ABC, then it should be legal to make it sinister.

Some sports use different handedness as parts of their strategies. Baseball players have obvious advantages being of different batting and pitching hands. Football defenses are based on the “strong side” (hand of opposing quarterback’s throwing arm) or “weak side” (the opposite side), meaning a quarterback with a different hand flips the defensive players and plays horizontally. Some boxers have different strategies when facing a boxer of the opposite hand, and you can defeat that kind of defense by changing your main hand temporarily, as demonstrated in movie form in Rocky 2.

And even though people chase the new, some forms are frozen in time and immortalized. For example of all the Smash Bros examples, GameCube Smash Bros is the most popular of the non-current Smashes used in tournaments. Some people play what’s considered the most balanced form of SF2 (Hyper Fighting, Grand Master Challenge) and SF3 (Third Strike) in tournaments, hence why they’re online in SF30th. Heck once a year they had an Original Naismith Basketball championship game where the 2 most obvious changes are no dribbling allowed and enclosed in a cage or low wall to prevent most out of bounds. That’s the equivalent of being a SF2GMC champion or Smash Melee champion in 2019. I understand the Street Fighters beyond number 2 utilize button dancing and button chording more, which makes it less optimal to “go sinister”, so my right stick would be mitigated by less powerful specials and more emphasis on combos. So Maybe, if I aspire to be something I can most reasonably achieve, I’m a competitive SF2 player, not necessarily a world class player, but I climbed my neighborhood mountain and both I and other common friends toppled someone who would later be the most famous Basic Cable “Jack of All Games” from 2003-2009 just with my Sinister Stick.

So seriously, @darksakul if you prefer rocker sticks, I understand why you hate Beeshus. If there’s some other technical or mechanical reason why you prefer NES Advantage (or some other NES-era joystick not mentoined yet), let me know. Otherwise, I believe you’re taking the Arcade Owner’s stance that the game was meant to played with a certain layout, and deviating is grey-area cheating. Seth Killian gets away with it because he crosses wrists, not gets special equipment.

And that’s a perfectly cromulent position. If playing on an arcade machine, no one wants to tamper with the equipment. And in some games, like Williams’ Defender and Stargate, the layout is half the challenge, despite the fact they simplified it for the Atari 2600 and Atari 5200 versions. That’s part of the game maker’s intent. Half the challenge is navigating controls. Soccer would not be soccer if all players can use their hands. 2 things (among many) define a competition, objective and limits. Change either, it becomes a different sport.

I admit my fighting strength is SF2 era games, so call me a Naismith BBall player. I take that as my skills are timeless and will only diminish when my body fails.

Currently, Xbox Live legal controllers have no multi-button macros, no rapid fires, and no slo mos. They standardized them for the purposes of Achievement Scores. if you use one of those to gain an unfair advantage, they boot you off. I asked specifically about right handed sticks, and they said if you follow those other rules, then it’s legal. Heck, they make the Adaptive Controller so people who have worse physical problems than being “goofy handed” can play.

#7

Dude stop tagging me, Thnx

#8

Sorry for tagging you, but I am curious why you think Beeshus are inferior. If you like rocker sticks over Clicky sticks, that’s a personal preference, and a principled, self-consitent reason why you think yours is superior. By the way: What’s your choice? NES Advantage, or a third unmentioned brand? I’m talking off-the-shelf, so don’t talk about your NES custom.

By the way, one important question about Nintendo Licensing and Beeshu sticks? At first Beeshu sticks were unlicensed. Then they later made licensed versions of the Superstick. 2 questions.

  1. Are only the specific ones with the Nintendo seal licensed, or does the license apply retroactively to the old copies of the stick which had the US National Video Game Team Seal of Endorsement?

  2. If there is a difference as far as Nintendo is concerned, what indicator on the stick itself would indicate it’s a Nintendo licensed version, other than the box? Anything would be nice, a model number, a stamp, something. If not, does it really matter today anyway since all warrantees are expired by now?

#9

Almost all the “joysticks” of this era are hardly joysticks.
They used rubber dome contacts for the buttons and Joystick.

Only controller I found clicky mechanical switches in them was the Quick Shot “Flight” stick.
Yes I prefer actual clicky joysticks over what you call the Rockers.
Rubber done contacts tend to fail, often too quickly in 3rd party controllers.

NES Advantage was also cool till you realize they cheap out on the construction as well.

Best NES Stick I seen was the Famicom ASCII Stick

Metal Body construction, actual Arcade Parts (they are Seimitsu parts made for this particular controller).

#10

Yes that looks like what most people consider to be a good joystick.

I understnad there are different stick models frm Beeshu There was a Beeshu Pad. There was a Beeshu Zoomer which was an attempt to make a steering wheel/flight yolk out of digital controls. If that describes the joystick you’re thinking of, then we are taking different Beeshu models.

Beeshu Zoomer: (I’m surprised to see an official NES version. I guess it beats constant tap-tap-tap of a “digalogue” pad especial if there’s circuitry to convert analog movement into virtual digalogue tap-tap-tap.)

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The most famous Beeshu model, one that won licensing approval for the NES (after a long shutout period becuase Nintendo origianally wanted to do it all themselves, accessories-wise. As soon as their general policy shifted to allow third party accessories that either directly, or indirectly competed with Nintendo’s offerings, as long as they brought something new to the table that Nintendo found quality and/or what gamers wanted, that’s when the Beeshu Ultimate SuperStick was licensed.) the Turbo Grafx 16, and (at least in terms of ambidexterity, not sure about construction, because they are Red Sea Crossing rare) Genesis Gizmo is the Ultimate Superstick. Those are like the Advantage exactly except it does 2 things better. One is an actual Clicky Joystick, I have the SMS and TG16 versions, and a right-handed only cousin, the Jazz and THEY all have clicky sticks, why would the NES version be different? And the thing that made them fly off the shelves, because they were LITERALLY the only ones offering it from the NES’s start to this very day as an off-the-shelf stick, was ambidexterity.

This is the model I’m referring to with a click stick:

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Nintendo Licensed version:

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There were also Zingers, which were 2 button ambidextrous Atari-2600-style joysticks, with a thumb button on base and a trigger, which had the ergonomic mentality of an Atari 2600 stick rather than the Superstick. I never tired them, but unless I know otherwise, I assume they probably didn’t skimp on the clicky joystick?
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I don’t think I was that special and ordered a custom clicky stick verison. I believe if the model was available tio me as a clicky sitck, it came standard with a clicky stick.

And if Clicky sticks are 80% of what defines a good stick, then in 80% of the score, the Beeshus are better with its click stick compared to the NES Advantage rocker stick.

I certainly hope you’re NOT familiar with the Ultimate Superstick, and you passed on the Jazz just because you didn’t like right hand only stick, so you never touched one, (welcome to the other side of the shutout equation) and that you’re basing your opinion on a different model. So if someone else besides me can tell you that the Ultimate Superstick, the Jazz, and maybe the Zinger had a clicky joystick, maybe you’ll rethink Beeshu, at least those models.

#11

Yeah and it’s garbage.

And they do use Rubber dome contacts, they just happen to have metal springs

#12

As I said before, the Beeshu had one thing no one else had, ambidexterity.

How important is that? Well the KY Enterprises was not exactly the best joystick, especially ergonomically where the button holes were drilled both with a wide finger stance, especially wit an extremely wide gap between punches and kicks, as well as a contour drilled for right hand button operation, and I could have sworn I had a rocker joystick with no clicks. (not to sure, but that’s the best I remember) Yet, despite these handicaps, a right stick layout alone turned me form a zero to a hero, and brought a future famous gamer from hero to zero among all my friends. It’s not to disparage the famous gamer, it’s to show how powerful the concept of right handed stick are to not just me but all my friends.

It’s obvious I’m talking at a skin deep level, and you’re taking apart the joystick. It may not be the ideal, and if that Ascii is a Famicom stick and it won’t work on a US NES (I see the Japanese characters in the picture) what would the best off-th-shelf US NES joystick be, if not the Advantage or the Superstick?

Also the US had a Joystick culture grown by Atari, so it makes sense Beeshu makes joysticks with an American mentality, and had what’s now considered fundamentally different joysticks than the Japanese did.

And just because it’s made for Japan doesn’t mean it’s better. The Xbox Controller S ruined fight games on the Original Xbox. Those awkwardly placed 5th and 6th buttons are not good for most games.

#13

Which no one cares about other than you. Seriously.
Its a dead end. Ether make a custom for your self or learn to play Left handed like every one else on the planet.

But there no market, people have tried making ether Right handed sticks as a product or a reversible stick with little success. There honestly not enough demand form Right handed players who insist on playing “Right Handed” as you put it.

Skin deep is worth nothing, the real value is inside, especially if you want your stick to last a few years.
Beeshu made alot of cheap plasticky junk that breaks easily.

Again you speak about things without knowing anything about it.
There a easy to wire adapter to make a Famicom controller into a NES controller.
The Famicom is 100% electrically identical to the US NES in terms of games and controllers.
Yes the controller ports are shaped different and the cart slot is different, but with a cart adapter US games play on Japanese consoles, and there adapters to make Japanese games playable on US consoles.

None.

No it didn’t

Make it cheap? Beeshu isn’t well known even in it’s heyday. They went broke like dozens of other early US peripheral manufacturers who made a bunch of terrible junk no one asked for.
Most of the Beeshu products I seen are rebranded as Archer the in-house Radioshack brand.

Xbox is owned by Microsoft a American company, and your analogy here require some really server mental gymnastics to find a connection. I don’t see the relevancy of this.

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#14

It’s kind of weird to say there’s no market in it when the only one who literally tried as an off-the-shelf model authorized by a console maker is Beeshu, at least as far as I’m aware of. There may be one USB Qanba I’ve heard advertised that might have been unauthorized PS3, but not 360, and there may have been one other unauthorized separable one announced (I forgot whether it was Nuby or Nyko, and it was during the 360/PS3 era) , but never released.

Other than contours (which may be copyrighted each by one company), what do you lose with Ambidexterity? I’ve shown I can do ambidexterity for only one more button than a one-handed model and have a decent two-sided contour. Or if contour is more important, mirror the sides. Seriously, I’ve never seen a mass-market model TRY ambidexterity other than Beeshu. What does someone have to lose to offer it? You sound like people are “offended” by ambidextrous models.

I was not justifying anything by that quote, I was saying that based on what I see, it looks and feels quality compared to an NES advantage. Name one other NES fight stick other than a Beeshu or NES advantage that was licensed by Nintendo. (There may be others, but I don’t know. I know some people believe the NES seal of quality, others are more skeptical. and still others say the NES era was self-serving, but when Sega was outselling them, they reformed and made it mean something.)

Seriously, if you’d like to name the best US of-the-shelf NES joystick, I’d like to hear it. Is the NES Advantage better than the Beeshu Superstick? Is there one better than both?

America, regardless of the pros and cons, were shaped by American joysticks. It took time to ween people off the American mentality, but there were still holders on. The main reason why joysticks were left handed was the MACHINE OPERATORS wanted it that way to SHORTEN CREDIT LENGTHS therefore adding more money to their coffers. One time I tried to play an Nintendo Arcade Excitebike by using the buttons on the left player and the joystick on the right player. It wouldn’t let me do that, even for a 1-player game. So much for user friendliness.

I figured there COULD have been an aftermarket way to do it even during the NES heyday. Before it was DIY. Now I see an example of it on Raphnet. https://www.raphnet-tech.com/products/fc_to_nes/index.php I’m not saying it was impossible, it’s just one of the things you need a “secret handshake” of either your own knowledge or someone like the good people at SRK, and SRK wasn’t around in the NES days, because Al Gore in the Senate and George Bush Sr as president didn’t “invent” the internet yet. (all they did was open it for commerce and deregulated it, but it didn’t happen until after the Genesis release)

Finally, as I said before I had a cheap right handed joystick which is definitely worse button contours for a right-anded than typical American Street Fighter panel, and even despite that right handedness alone was enough to turn me from zero to hero in Street FIghter, and facing others using a righty stick made an eventual famous gamer go from hero to zero, at least for that moment in time. Now he knows not to bring a knife (pad for all) to a gun fight (right joystick for everyone all the time).

I know what I saw, I know what I did. I swear this true story would sell the concept of an ambidextrous stick. People like testimonials of improved gameplay. That’s what sells sticks. Not art, but results.

And it’s not just me, but 4 other friends who all beat a then-future game champion. (He was even the best Blockbuster Genesis Champion for stores in a 50 mile radius.) So this was no slouch. He was good. The right-handed stick made 5 of us better 100% of the time. The right tools for the job helps a lot.

#15

By the way, I never got a question answered because of the sidetrack debate.

There was both an unlicensed NES Beeshu Superstick and a Nintendo-licensed one. Were all Supersticks retroactively licensed? Or were only the ones with the Nintendo logo on the box licensed? If so, what was the differentiating mark on the stick, or if you faced one in the blind at a garage sale with no box, would you not know whether it was licensed or not?