Reversal vs Cross up question


#1

What determines which way a reversal (or close to reversal) attack goes on an opponent that’s crossing you up? It seems like sometimes they turn around and hit their opponent, yet at other times they attack (and whiff) in the direction they were originally facing.


#2

When they cross you up.

So if you dragon punch before they’re at the apex of your sprite (where you turn around), it goes behind them… if they do a meaty crossup where they’re already on the other side, and you successfully DP, it will go the right direction.

If you’re having problems executing a DP on crossups, try the uh… reverse ochio motion -

:l: :db: :d: :df: + punch if you’re on the right side. The idea is that you get forward, down, then they cross you up, and the d/b becomes d/f and voila, dragon punch.


#3

Python, are you asking about down charge moves like a Flashkick, or Boxer’s headbutt?

I pulled this directly from NKI’s write up on the SRK ST Wiki. This example is more for the horizontal charge moves, and in the example he specifically discusses Vega’s flip kick. This should apply to all horizontal charge moves.

Cross-up Charge
If your opponent knocks you down and goes for the cross-up, it is always possible to keep your charge. You simply need to switch the direction exactly when your opponent switches sides. It’s an amazingly simple concept, but it’s somewhat quirky and hard to do, so not many people utilize it. A practical example would be with Claw:

Chun is on the 2P side (right side), and she knocks down Claw and tries to go for the cross-up. Claw already had a charge (charging left) before he was knocked down. When Chun is directly overhead, Claw switches the direction of his charge from left to right, so now he’s still holding back, but instead of holding left, he’s now holding right. He only holds right for a split second before he gets up, then hits left (which is now towards) and RH.

This works with all charge moves (even supers), and it is especially useful for characters like Chun, Claw, and Dic whose only good reversals are horizontal charge move

–NKI 14:45, 7 January 2007 (UTC)


#4

No, I was asking what determines which way you end up attacking against a cross up when you do a reversal. Mechanica, I’m not sure what you said is correct, because when I do a reversal super with Guile, I end up attacking away from my opponent. The same happens when I try to reversal flash kick as well…

This happens with other characters as well. Yesterday I crossed up a Fei long with a meaty or near meaty attack, he got a reversal, but the flame kick attacked away from me.


#5

The Fei player would have had to input the flame kick similarly to what Mechanica posted, only in reverse since the motions is essentially a backwards DP.

In the case of Guile’s super, assuming that you’re in the P1 position, I’m thinking that you’d have to switch from the :db: to :df: as they cross over you in the air to maintain your charge, and then continue the motion as usual.

For a regular flashkick I’m not sure how you’d do the motion to make certain that it goes in the correct direction. Maybe going from :d: directly to :ub:???


#6

I was not aware that you could pick which direction you do reversals… but again, how would you choose your flashkick direction? Unfortuneatly, I think it always goes away from your opponent. Btw, the super motion begins at down, so you dont have to worry about losing your charge when they cross over.


#7

The direction it goes depends on how early/late you do the move. If you do a flash kick early it will go the original direction(away from the guy that crossed you up). If you do it late it will go towards them. All moves work this way. You just need to wait until your character turns around.


#8

unless it’ll be too late lol.

new games will auto correct it SF4, CVS2 and 3s for sure do this. And I love ST cause it doesn’t. If I time a SAFE JUMP against your reversal I shouldn’t have to put up with you facing the right way and being much safer afterwards.


#9

I’ve turned myself when something like ken hp dp crosses me up at the very top of the arc, its possible that uf/ub would give u the correct fk. Just experiment with it. Are u sure a crossup doesnt give a free down input? I know that sounds stupid but ive supered crossup tatsus with guile by pressing f,uf after they crossover. Unless d,db stores the super? Maybe d,df could store it? I’ll test this at some point.


#10

How long after you stand up does it take your sprite to turn around? Is it 1 frame? If they don’t do a meaty attack and you don’t do a reversal, you should be able to turn around and hit them every time, provided that this turn around time is relativly short…


#11

Alright, there are 2 conflicting answers to my question. Some claim that you decide which direction to do your reversal by doing the motion one way or the other.
Example-
:r: :d: :df: or :l: :d: :db:

Others claim that if you get a reversal, you will always get the reversal in direction you were facing when you got knocked down. However, if your opponent doesn’t do a meaty attack and you don’t do a meaty crossup, their sprite will turn and face you and the dp (done with the appropriate motion for the new direction) will hit you out of your crossup. Which one is right?


#12

Both. You can be player 2 do a f,d,df(towards left) as an opponent crosses up and by late timing get a reversal going in player 1s direction(to the right). In the same scenario its possible for P2 to wait and do a P1 motion f,d,df(to the right, or with respect to P2 thats b,d,db) reversal after the crossup and get a crossup in P1s direction(to the right).

Was that clear enough, or did I explain horribly just now.

It happens to me against claw. Its all timing.


#13

What do you mean by late timing? Does that mean not actually getting a reversal attack?


#14

Bad word usage sorry, it depends on the crossup timing. Specifically which motion you do relative to them being on P1/P2 side. Are they still above you that’s P1 side, or crossed over thats P2 side. That scenario is crossup attempt of P1 jumping from P1s side.


#15

Ok, so if I understand you, the following scenario is correct:

I knock down ken with a flash kick, and go for an ambiguous cross up with my jumping short. Ken is on the left, I am on the right. While I am still on the right side of ken, ken inputs a srk to the right. I cross him over, and his reversal srk hits me going left. As long as your opponent doesn’t switch sides after your reversal, you will always hit them with every character’s dp (if they don’t safe jump). Is this correct? If so, this means that provided my opponent can hit a reversal, he doesn’t have to play the guessing game with which side he has to block my ambiguous cross up. If your opponent does switch sides after a reversal, you could have just waited a second before doing your dp because it must not have been a meaty in the first place. This allows your character to turn and hit them with their dp.


#16

Basically yeah, it depends on where you the crossup is as the opponent is waking up, timing wise, you do the motion with respect to where the crossup is. There is a very thin line where you will get a backwards crossup reversal.

Also for example. If dj jumps over me, and I do a f,d,df motion, and then he crosses over and I press punch, there is a very small blind spot where my reversal will not turn around. However, if he crosses up soon enough, then my punch button will activate, and my sprite will have turned around WHILE I WAS GETTING UP.

That’s from my own experience. It just seems timing relative to position. Of course trying to stay out of this is the best goal. I’d say just reverse when the time comes and if it happens alot, maybe you’ll get a feel for the timing.

Its usually safer to block the crossup, then go for a reversal. However, then your giving them tick options.


#17

If your opponent can reversal meaty crossups just as easy as meaty jumpins, where’s the incentive to cross them up? Sure, crossing up puts you at point blank, but I think it might also be more difficult to safejump on a crossup. It seems it would be more logical not to do a meaty jump in at all, but a delayed one that is at the center of their sprite on wakeup. But again, it what your saying is true Cloth_x, they could just wait until you cross them up before doing the dp and it would go the proper way


#18

Wow, this is definitely not true (just tested it frame-by-frame), and I am really surprised that I published that. My apologies. I’ve updated the Wiki with this:

If you have a horizontal charge and the opponent crosses you up, you will lose your charge. The three exceptions to this are Chun’s stored super, Honda’s stored super, and Honda’s stored Ochio. With those moves, you can switch the direction of your charge as your characters switch sides. (Side note: Claw can not do this with his stored flip kicks.) In general, if you’re being crossed up while you have a horizontal charge, you can still perform the charge move at the moment of the cross-up, when your charge is forcibly removed. For example, Guile knocks down Honda and goes for a cross-up. Honda is already charged, holding the back direction. When Guile crosses up Honda, the back direction turns into the towards direction, and if Honda hits punch, he will get a Headbutt.

This makes sense from a programming standpoint. However, after doing some quick testing, this doesn’t really seem to be the case.

Unfortunately I don’t have time to do a thorough test, but my guess is that it also has something to do with “turn around” frames. When in neutral state, it takes a few frames for your character to turn around and face the other direction, which leads me to believe that the actual switching of sides might have some overlap. (This is probably related to why it’s so easy to switch the direction of Chun’s stored super.)


#19

How would the input go for a flip kick with Vega on a crossup? Please advise. Thanks.


#20

I think your right, NKI. I notice in training mode that if you cross your opponent up late enough, they stadn up facing away from you before turning around. If you cross up too early, they stand up facing you right off the bat.