This could possibly be posted in a more broad forum, but it stems from watching the vids of Vangief.

Whenever I think of tourney play, or am ‘going’ for itt myself, I play more reserved. Not necesarily defensive, but I go with the safe options, I do the combo that may net me 10 to 30 points less damage, but puts me in the same reset situation and is easier to execute. I avoid unsafe moves as much as possible despite hte possible, as the possible retaliation lingers in my mind (not as bad as vanilla…fuggin trade -> Ultra BS :rofl:

When I watch other people in tournament situations, they are similar, sure they typically have better execution so doing c.lk x 4 to EXGH will come out more often, but they typically play similarily to me…more ‘dancing’ than usual, more ‘safe’ moves, fewer risk.

But watchin Evo, and most notably Vangief (becuase I understand Gief’s nuisances better than say Ryu) - he was IMO extremely risky in the vids that are posted. Is this a good thing or bad thing? This isn’t about him, don’t get it twisted, this is simply me trying to understand the ‘art’ of risk/reward and ho it applies to gief. In Vanilla, with hte stamina difference - I felt better against certain characters ‘going for it’, but now…well it hurts a bit more…and I don’t necessarily get as much damage out of it as I used to…

But I’m watching the clip and see NUMEROUS GH…at various distances, GH is punishable on hit…so I avoid it at all cost, yet this guy who placed ALOT higher than I could dream of placing…almost seemed to spam it. So, how do you sorta gauge using moves like c.mk/rh as pokes, or using a normal GH, even wake-up games on say Ryu?

  • :bluu:

I wouldn’t say Vangief was playing terribly unsafe, but part of playing a high-health grappling character is taking more risks than usual. There’s a certain psychological advantage that you get when Gief is in the other guy’s face, so in some situations you have to use some potentially risky methods to start that pressure.

Vangief looked like he used a lot of O-Ss to alleviate some of the risk (lots of s.lk o-s EX hand from what I recall). He tried whiffing a green hand to get in on a few players, but at the level these guys are playing at, that’s not going to be a reliable way to get in. I’d say he played exceptionally well and not recklessly.

At high level, you need to bear in mind that the opponents know what you are SUPPOSED to do, and will expect you to do it. So if you play completely safe all the time and don’t offer any surprises, you will potentially have a harder time. Also you can’t just play the character, you play the player as well.

perfectly said.

I really don’t see what he means by random green hands. I mean, one or two was psychic but shit that comes with knowing your opponent. If anything he played really fucking solid. he was able to get in quick and stay in, most gief’s can’t do that especially vs wong or ricky o . I personally think that he didn’t play reckless at all. I mean , he barely went for spd set ups but more so guaranteed damage. I know what you mean by going to less riskier combos but let’s think about this for a second, what complex combos did he go for ??? The only combo i seen him go for that could have been kind of difficult was the cr.lk far.stmp st.lk ex hand and maybe j.mk cr.lk cr.lk ex hand. For the most parts those are hit confirmable combos and aren’t that difficult. stmp to st.lk is a 2 frame link but linking into cr.lk is the only difficult combo that i see here. All in all if you want max damage in combos it’s going to cost you some execution and at high levels of play, considering the fact that gief barely does damage outside of commmand throws, it’s really needed to get the edge over on your opponent .

Naw, I wasn’t talking about the player, so I’m not really trying to break down his matches or anything, its just more than anything he used normal GH ALOT more than I do - and I avoid the fuck out of it because of the easy retaliation, and he jumped a significant amount in say the Chun fight. I’m not trying to look at it as anymore than ‘why, it worked for him, but I can’t get that to work for me without getting disgustingly punished’…there was some psychicness with some of his stuff which I admit is normal, just seemed as though he left himself open alot a bit more than I do - and he succeeded where I would fail.


  • :bluu:

I kind of think Super Gief has to be played a bit riskier since a lot of his footsie trades aren’t in his favor anymore. I did think that Vangief’s GH for meter after trade Lariat to EX-GH juggle was really ballsy.