Rock Quick Notes

rock

#1

Is anybody else here a newbie like me and just starting out with Rock? This character is so good because he’s just so brain dead simple. You just need good basic mind games and JD skills that’s all.

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Useful frame data:

close s.LK 500 +2/+2
2/6/9

d.LK 200 +6/+6
4/4/7
The 360 grab is good after this move. Remember the grab has surprising range.

d.LP 300 +6/+6
4/3/6

d.MK 800 -6/-6
4/8/20

close s.MK 800 -3/-3
2/9/16
Rock doesn’t ever have to attempt tech throws. He can always use close s.LK or close s.MK instead. 2 frame attacks always beat throw attempts.

far s.MK 700 +1/+1
8/6/15
29 frames total

d.HK 1200 knockdown/-9
5/3/30
38 frames total

close s.HP 1100 -10/-10
4/3/31
Hits mid on all characters

far s.HP 1300 -12/-12
7/3/33
Not much range, but this move is super cancelable. Far s.HP xx Shine Knuckle for punishment.

close s.HK 1200 -2/-2
4/8/20
25 frame stun move, whiffs on the majority of crouching characters unfortunately, so close s.HP is better much of the time

far s.HK 1300 -2/-2
8/9/19

d.MP 700,600 -11/-11
3/6/25

j.HK 1200
7/8


qcb+HK

As soon as the “blur” part of the special move starts, Rock have full body invincibility for 12 frames. Anytime from frames 30~43, Rock may cancel into the 360+P. So unless Rock canceled this special move from a normal (like the high block stun close s.HK), there at least 18 frames of vulnerable recovery after the blur.

You have to wait until the blur FULLY recovers before you can do a normal. By logic, it’s obviously better to attempt a cancel on frame 30 into the 360+P every time.

Although the blur part of the move itself has totally invincible startup, the startup “run” animation does NOT. If you stand point blank next to an opponent, you have to wait at least 2 frames of the “run” animation to finish before the “blur” starts.

This basically means you can’t use qcb+HK to avoid meaty attacks (unless you’re in roll cancel groove of course).


360+P (all strengths are the same)

1200 damage
8/1/35
72 pixel range (!!)
44 frames total (ie. you’re screwed when you whiff this move)
Can be canceled into break (tap PPP) or laser (hold PPP) from frames 10~24.

Use the shortcut input method whenever you want this move. f~d~b~u+LP. It’s really only a 270, not a full 360 degree rotation. Buffer this move from a run as well. f, f~d~b~u+LP

Don’t bother ever canceling into the laser, unless you’re throwing your opponent into the corner (more on that later). Always “break” the throw, then juggle with one hit of the qcb+HP move instead. You get more damage that way.


qcf+LP 800 -12/-12
14/45

qcf+MP 900 -12/-12
15/45

The MP fireball travels a little faster than the LP one. Stick with using the LP ones almost exclusively as they stay on the screen longer.


qcf+HP 500+900 -4/-4
17/23/37

The stupid trick with this move is that not many people know it only has -4 recovery. Do this elite tactic as follows. It’s called “Rock’s corner trap and it’s counters”…

-knockdown into corner, meaty double reppuken, (charge down), do HP rising tackle if the opponent hits you, HP throw if they block. Repeat indefinitely until you win.


qcb+LP knockdown/-10
16/8/26
airborne 13~24

qcb+MP knockdown/-14
16/12/26
airborne 13~28

qcb+HP knockdown/-28
16/18/26
airborne 13~34

These moves are really important to use properly. Jab version has deceptive recovery when done from max range. Potential -3. Always go for a low Just Defense after the jab version of this move.

Cover tech roll attempts with the MP version of this move.

Example:
You do far d.HK knockdown, opponent mashing on PPP, qcb+MP gives you a free hit and another knockdown


charge d, u+P

I don’t feel like writing down the data. Just remember to always use the MP version for anti-air, and the HP version hits in 6 and has 8 frame total body invinciblity.


qcf+K counters

All of these are really fast and low risk to whiff. Only 35 frames total each. All of them don’t grab until frame 3 though, so unfortunately you can’t use these against perfectly timed meaties.

Countering is an important part of Rock’s game. It’s all about how well you know CvS2 in general and your ability to read your opponent.


Moves I have yet to experiment with (so don’t ask me how to use them, as I have no idea):

close s.MP +4/+4
3/5/13
This move MIGHT be good. I don’t know because I think it hits high though. Somebody test it out…

f+MK 900 +2/+2
27/3/18
This looks like the slowest, most worthless overhead attack ever created. I actually wish Rock didn’t have this move. It messes me up whenever I want to do regular standing medium kicks. The only noteworthy thing is that it actually gives +2 frame advantage.

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close s.LK follow-ups

You usually land your close s.LK’s by either 1.) doing them meaty on a fallen opponent or 2.) using them defensively when the opponent is attacking you (ex. he tries d.LK, walk up throw).

When I think they will block:
-close s.LK, 360+LP

When I think they will jump away:
-close s.LK, d.LK, d.MK xx shine knuckle super

When I think they will attack me:
-close s.LK, qcb+HK, 360+P

When I think they will try to throw me:
-close s.LK, tap forward, close s.MK xx qcb+any punch or qcb+HK

========
Ground Game

Damn, talk about CvS2 Easy Mode… Rock has a fast 5 frame sweep like Mai that’s 95% safe on the block too. Only -9 when blocked. (Watch out when this move gets JD’d though, as Rock is going to get messed up…)

-run up, sweep x one million
-jab reppukens
-qcb+LP from far
-Low jump straight up, j.HK a LOT

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Meaty attacks

Jab reppuken is all you need. Use double reppuken if you’re in the corner.

Close s.LK can be timed meaty as well. Rock is almost never going to get close enough to use this move unless he gets a knockdown anyway. Against charge characters, always use an empty low jump or qcb+HK to switch sides first. It messes with which way they need to charge and the likelihood of you eating a reversal attack.

==================================
What to press after a successful JD

d.MK, d.MK, d.MK

Either do d.MK xx jab elbow or d.MK xx super when you have it. Don’t try JD, 360 grab until you really have your opponent freezing up. It’s not guaranteed like Zangiefs 360 grab.

Oh, I guess you could probably try using JD, d.HK too. 5 frame startup is pretty fast.

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Anti-air

Whoever says, “Rock’s s.HK beats EVERYTHING!!!” is a scrub and needs to stop playing Rock. Against far jump-ins, use far s.HK. At close angles, use the 3 frame d.MP. Against a full metered A-groover looking to blow through your anti-air, better to jump back HK most of the time.

Run up, anti-air d.MP is really good.

MP rising tackle is totally invincible for 6 frames, then has a bunch of upper body invincibility. Even when done deep, it cannot be air-blocked by C-groove. Unlike Guile’s Flash Kick… So Rising Tackles as anti-air are actually quite good. Use them in reversal situations where you otherwise might not be able to use s.HK. (ex. Akuma does one of his tiger knee, meaty LP fireball setups)

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Combos:

-360 throw into the corner, early laser, d.HK xx Raging Storm
Goddamn it! Oww…

-close s.HK xx qcb+HP
ONLY for when the opponent misses something obvious like a hard DP. You don’t want your close s.HK to be whiffing on a crouching opponent

-360 throw midscreen, break, juggle with level 3 Shine Knuckle
The second hit of the super whiffs, but no big deal.

-d.LK, d.MK xx level 3 Shine Knuckle
2 frame link. Pretty easy. Make sure to hold down the MK button to avoid negative edge.

=====
Misc.

-Run up, 360 grab a lot. Rock’s all about tossing the other guy around like a rag doll. Granted none of his mix ups are truly 50/50, but he can make you guess pretty good for the most part.

-A lot of people agree that tick throws aren’t so good in this game. It’s why there are so few Zangief players. The reason Rock’s tick throws are so actually GOOD is because he has the invincible qcb+HK move to mix it up with. Rock would be a garbage character if did not have this move. Learn to love it.


#2

raises hand uneasily

Believe me, I’m ready to lose a lot. :slight_smile:

Anyway, I appreciate the frame data and some of the cool tricks that I didn’t know yet. Good thing Rock’s so simple, it’ll help me while I’m learning the game. :smiley:


#3

Man, I knew Rock s.forward was good, but didn’t know it was that good. 2 frames? wth.

I haven’t seen many K Rock players use close s.strong, I’m not sure if it’s because the move sucks, or if it’s because he has a 2 frame close s.short anyhow.


#4

okay…i’m playing on the dreamcast right now, using A-rock

i did a wake up HP rising tackle, and the CPU S-Yamazaki did a level 1 grab that grabbed me out of it.

W
T
F


#5

Rising Tackle is a pretty sorry wake-up in general. And it doesn’t leave the ground immediately, so you probably got grabbed on startup or something.
And if you tried to RC the Rising Tackle… you shouln’t have to ask why Rock would get grabbed in that situation.

Oh yeah, for meaty attacks, I saw Omar Walrond (Troopa) doing close s.short a lot. It’s up to +7 or so meaty, so you get some options off it. And it’s active for 6 frames according to the data kcxj posted, so it’s not all that hard to do meaty.
And it’s a short, if you mess up and do it too early, you’re fine… 17 total frames.


#6

hey I dont kno if this makes me a newb or not but, I dont get what all these numbers are eg 4+/4-

would it really help my game alot?

p.s whats bad about K-rock in tourny’s?
hes one of my main characters, and hes very scary when he gets his rage burst,


#7

More Setups and Mind games

I see why at a high level, Rock is considered so deadly now. Once you can achieve 100% execution rate with the 360+P move (never getting accidental qcb+LP); perfect timing with the d.LK, d.MK link; and never leaving more than a 2 frame gap between close s.LK, d.LK, Rock is a mixup BEAST! He’s easily on par with a low jumping Kyo when you play correctly and with perfect execution. These two characters being so similar mixup-wise, it’s just logical that Otaku plays them both. If you can play one character, there’s no reason you can’t play the other.

================
After a Punch throw…

Rock slams the opponent to the ground, and they bounce away.

Always go for a qcb+HP move after. This is totally FREE when timed perfectly, as soon as possible after the throw ends. For one thing, this covers all safe fall attempts if the opponent tries that. Another is that it leaves Rock at the perfect up close and personal distance, with a huge knockdown advantage, to start his mixup game.

First, let us consider all of your opponent’s wake-up options:
-wake-up DP or super
-wake-up throw*
-wake-up shorts or jabs
-jump away**
-block low (most common)
-parry
-just defend
-roll
-roll canceled special

*Watch out… a lot of people MASH this shit and it can be really distracting.

**Almost nobody ever does this. But when you play Rock correctly, you’ll make them WANT to start holding up-back on wake-up from now on.

Here are your options:

1.) Pressing LK as soon as the whiffed qcb+HP move is finished results in a perfectly timed meaty attack.

DEFEATS
-wake-up throws
-wake-up shorts or jab
-jumping away

LOSES TO
-wake-up DP or super
-parry
-RC special (this is REALLY hard for the opponent to time right though)

FRAME ADVANTAGE (for new mix-up)
-they just block

PUSH (no advantage given to either side)
-wake-up JD

2.) 360+P grab on their wake-up.

DEFEATS
-blocking low
-JD or parry attempts
-roll
-RC special (with exceptions such as Rolento’s RC KKK or Bison RC d, u+P. Those result in pushes. Does anybody know if this beats Chun’s wake-up RC Legs?)

LOSES TO
-wake-up DP or super
-wake-up throw (Regular throws grab in 3. Rock’s 360+P grabs in 8. Plus waking opponents always have the 6 frame “no throwing” window advantage.)
-wake-up shorts or jabs

PUSH
-jump away (If Rock’s 360+P had quick whiff recovery like Athena’s hcf+P or Raiden’s 360+K, then hell yeah, I would say the opponent jumping away gives Rock advantage. I would run after them and kick them in between the legs with s.HK.)

3.) qcb+HK on their wake-up, 360+P.

DEFEATS
-wake-up dp or super
-wake-up throws (they’ll get a whiffed hard attack instead)
-wake-up shorts and jabs (not guaranteed… I’m not too sure)
-block low, fall asleep :slight_smile:

LOSES TO
-block low, wait to punish you

PUSH
-jump away
-wake-up shorts or jabs (again, I’m not too sure)

4.) Just Defend.

DEFEATS
-wake-up dp or super (JD, then mess them up after)

LOSES TO
-wake-up throws

PUSH
-wake-up shorts or jabs
-jump away

To be continued (…if I’m still interested in Rock next week)


To recap Rock’s options:
-meaty close s.LK
-360+P
-qcb+HK
-Just Defend

-counter hit close s.MK xx any special

-go low with d.LK xx combo
-low jump back, instant HK overhead (big characters)
-low jump straight up

-qcf+P counters (risky)

-walk back, walk forward, punch throw again
-walk back, walk forward, 360+P (more range, higher risk, bigger reward)
-walk back, walk forward, qcb+HK (risky)
-walk back, walk forward, counter hit d.LK xx combo

Anybody who says to mix up with the the f+MK or qcb+LK overhead will be shot on sight.

edit: Do the level 3 Shine Knuckle, then whiff the qcb+LK move. Read your opponent then either do 360+P or qcb+HK after. My friend caught me with that yesterday. It was mad tricky.


#8

Yeah, that sensyoudo site is good stuff.

Random thoughts-

In that Rock vid, after a 360+P into the corner, they did all these random resets.
Early laser, c.forward XX QCB+RH, 360+P seemed to pop up a lot. Out of all of the random tricks there, it looked like the most applicable.
They also did early laser, s.jab, lj.RH (hit somewhat close to the ground), land, QCB+RH, 360+P.

Don’t remember if it was the Rock vid, but I remember seeing the QCB+short overhead being stuck in there somewhere… but it was probably after some post-360 reset.

…and is it just me, or do all the OTK matches have him playing K Maki instead of Rock…


#9

cool man another good thread. akuma and rock (i use k exclusively) are amongst my fav characters. it’d be great to play against u. ever thought of holidaying in good 'ol melbourne, australia? :stuck_out_tongue:


#10

yeah, same here. yes sadly my rock is a x-copy version of OTK’s rock. i got some new tricks up my sleeve, gonna reveal them at the next tourney. :cool:


#11

Trust me on this one, I’m the last person you’ll want to play in this game. Probably the biggest reason I write all this stuff down is because I can’t do any of it properly it in the first place. Just go to the arcade and play random people if you want to play somebody who sucks like me.

How’s the beautiful women to ugly men who get to score with them ratio in Melbourne by the way? I’ll put my Swedish vacation on hold if Australia turns out to be just as nice. :lol:


#12

More Setups and Mind games

in low jump…
lj up rh and then do it again if u get it the first time xx shine or c.rh
or after the second one throw, 360… damn got to go but ill be back


#13

I dunno about you, but straight up lj.RH sounds a little risky at point-blank range.
Well, you could go into QCB+RH > 360+P on landing, but that’s only going to work so many times.


#14

hmmm well the only thing taht can beat lj rh is dps and lvl 2-3s but its good and like u said its risky but it wont leave u open as much as say f.mk or dunk
just think of it like kyo’s air c.fierce AND if u do it a second time tahts 2 rh for free and they hurt

anyway… after knockdown u…
empty low jump
…360
…shift
…trip
…throw
…block wakeup(advantage of rock’s invincibility thing)
…ha charge rising tackle to beat their wakeup… never
tried might work
point blank double reppuken (g.crush… actually a good g.
crush combo is a simple point blank s.fierce xx
reppuken
if u can piss them off u can get a high counter when the wake up dp-ish moves and almost always after u counter taht theyll try to throw u on wake up u get a 360 or shift 360 4 free

bait jab hardedge then shift or block possible wakeup
thing taht u can bait…
c.rh
f.mk
c.mk
s.fierce or s.rh
if they have tac recov single reppuken

quick notes for u guys… a super safe block string against jd and parry is c.jab, c.short, S.short no reppuken or hardedge just run up and s.fierce xx reppuken

i wont write what beats what cuz… im lazy and u guys should be able to figure it out…

YOUNG DAYS ARE EXPLOSIVE!!!


#15

I don’t think that’s right. The 360 grab has 8 frame startup. Regular punch throws grab in 3 frames. An opponent jamming on wake-up throw will beat you everytime if you try the 360 right away. In those instances, you need to go for a counter hit s.MK or do the shift first.


#16

Do you guys want to know something that’s quite good? It’s not listed in the CvS2 Guidebook either…

==================================
Close s.MK combos after a low jump forward HK.

There’s always an 8 frame delay after you do an attack off a low jump. Close s.MK comes out so fast however, it doesn’t even matter. It can still combo regardless of 8 frame delay or not. As long as you’re in range for the close s.MK after landing from the low jump, you always have time to combo.

Now remember the 8 frame delay can be bypassed by doing a special move after frame 2. When you do the qcb+HK move at point blank range, it’s essentially invincible instantly. Combine that with being able to combo a close s.MK, Rock has some really powerful low jump mixups.

EXAMPLE:
Rock is in control of the match and has his opponent cornered. From just about the close to mid range*, Rock’s low jumping forward HK is nearly impossible to for the opponent to counter on reaction. So Rock does low jump forward HK. Whether the opponent blocks or gets hit, it doesn’t matter. Rock is now at point blank range and can…

-combo close s.MK xx elbow
-delay close s.MK for one or two frames (so it doesn’t combo), get counter hit close s.MK xx elbow
-cancel 8 frame delay by doing invincible qcb+HK
-do nothing (Rock is perfectly safe after making the opponent block his low jump forward HK!)

*The distance Rock would be at if he did three crouching light kicks.

===================
More low jump HK options:

Any time you connect with low jump straight up HK, or low jump forward HK from further out, it’s good to use the K-groove f, f run.

You can do:
-run up, max range sweep
-run up until at point blank range, qcb+HK
-run up, max range 360+P

Running after a low jump HK is actually one of Rock’s best 360+P grab setups. So really practice those running 360’s!


#17

s mk combos after lj fk?! i will master this. great tip.


#18

What about C-groove Rock? I like holding on to my supers.

peace
James


#19

C Rock has some decent L2 cancels and stuff…
His Dash is nice, too.
Roll sucks about as bad as Cammy’s. He does have halfway usable RCs, though. Just not so good that I’d mess with them much. Even if you RC at like a 95% success rate, that 5% of the time when you mess up will screw you over. Can’t even do random scrub stuff like Roll super to save you from doing Rock’s Roll on accident.

Biggest thing C Rock loses is Low Jump, IMHO. Running is nice, you get some setups and stuff, but his Dash gives him options, too. Losing Low Jump hurts, though.

Any setup that doesn’t involve Run or Low Jump should technically work with C Rock, though. But you’ll have fewer chances to get those setups. IMHO, C Rock needs a bit more patience than K Rock. Less fun, unless you’re into RCing 360s or something.


#20

Is P-Rock worth learning?