Rock's corner trap and it's counters

rock

#1

Well here I am again. Got some decent responses for my Bison trap thread. I’d like to start another one. We all love Rock. He’s just damn cool, especially when you use the KKK costume. He reminds me of Trunks.

Anyway, I’m sure if you’ve fought decent Rock’s, their favorite thing to do is to corner trap you. Specifically: get you knocked down in the corner and stand right above you. He throws a Double Rebuken and you catch the tail end of it. You go to punish him or try to roll through any of his attacks and then all of a sudden, the high-priority Rising Tackle takes you for a ride. In other words, all a Rock player does is charge during the Double Rebuken and throw it out at the precise moment the Double Rebuken animation ends. Rinse, wash, repeat. You start getting the hang of it and just decide to block the damn tackle and eat the chip damage; well then he can just change up and after the Double Rebuken just throw your ass. Since he’s so close, it’s very hard to counter. So what do you do?

Think you’re good? Answer the question.


#2

first of why isnt this in the rock thread? second, you would be suprised by how many rock players DONT use this. The trap works but unfortunate that eventually rock makes a mistake and he eats it.


#3

Rock trap? wtf?

The only Rock trap was in Beta when his Level 3 Shine Knuckle was AHVB like. You threw a jab Reppuken and if they farted you could hit them for free.

Rising Tackle does not have high priority. Cross it up. You’ll beat it every single time. Priority sucks. It had decent ground priority at the very beginning, if you pause for a second and then hit him with a high priority normal he can’t do anything about it.

And why don’t you tech the throw? Or like, use Tactical Recovery? Or Safe Fall? There’s like a million things you can do. DP that shit, mutha fucka. Hells yea. c.fp that shit. c.fp roman cancel c.fp super ownz j00


#4

“Rinse, wash, repeat”…is not the quote “Lather, Rinse and Repeat”?..the idea of rinsing BEFORE washing seems confusing to me and my simple mind …:smiley: :stuck_out_tongue:


#5

Wont a reversal DP or reversal Level 3 beat that?


#6

A dragon punch wont beat it. Level 3 super beats everything but abundances of Level 3 supers to beat a trap that will occur everytime you get trapped in the corner isn’t quite practical.

Yeah sure, delayed getups and quick getups are a way out. But most people who use quick getups or delayed getups use them everytime. The reason being is you have to decide right away when you get knocked down or hit into the air. Most people use them by instinct every single time. THAT, will lead to above average players throwing a hadouken or in Rock’s case, a Shining Knuckle that will cause a quick getup to become a quick way to get your ass kicked.

On the other hand, delayed getups are so easy to predict because, (guess what? they’re delayed, which means slow) so you’ll just end up turtling. I must observe that a delayed getup is much harder to adjust to concerning Rock’s trap and you just may succeed in having hm think twice of whiffing moves.

If you guys haven’t seen this trap you’ll be surprised once you do see it. You’ll be more surprised to see how you’re recovery dp’s and rising tackles mean nothing as Rock takes you for a one way ride skyward. I practice with my brother, who ain’t so bad himself ranking in the high 70’s, low 80’s and we’ve experimented with just about everyone’s anti-air special. You cannot beat it if Rock times it right. Same way as if you’re standing over an opponent with Ken/Ryu and you time a dp to beat his rising dp off the ground. However, even that situation will result in a tradeup 50/50. But I’ve NEVER seen Rock trade hits with someone during this trap. Either you get hit, he screws up the timing or you block it. I’m just hoping more and more people do this in their games because it is a great addition to Rock’s arsenal.

But great try with the delayed getups, too bad only C and P groove are the only grooves that can do it. BTW, rolls are no good from the ground. You can’t roll through the Double Rebuken cuz you catch teh tail end of it and you can’t roll through the Rising Tackle because as the other guy said before, it has great ground priority. You WILL get hit. Sorry, N, S, A, K grooves.

Oh, and quick note, the reason I don’t put this thread up in Rock’s specific thread is cuz it sucks and only Rock players who want to know strategies, rather than players who want to COUNTER Rock’s strategies would go there. Noich.


#7

You can also mix this up with his Raging Storm right off the bat. Although it would require a lvl2 at the least, you should be able to make a pretty great impression.

“Why is he standing over me? Doesn’t he fear my recovery dp? Whoa, hold up, he’s doin Double Rebuken, I’ll just punish him afterwards, ok here we go-”

“RAGING… STORM!!!”

“-waaahhhhh!!!”

Once again, this is a real trap, you cannot get out of it save for your supers/cc’s or just plain blocking it. This trap is great because it’s quite deceptive. The Double Rebuken does not push you far away as a hadouken would, in fact… the pushback from the Double Rebuken is quite minute. Experiment with it, you’ll love the stun damage.

Oh and Mummy, I won’t flame you,… hopefully you’ve seen just how wrong your suggestions are.


#8

This sounds like a dp/throw guessing game.

Using mathematics, we can see that this is a bad game for Rock to be playing, if the other guy has a super. The damage reward for a dp or a throw is not as high as a super. However, a blocked dp will lead to you eating a super.

Therefore, we have shown that this is a stupid trap.

Logical theory shows that my assertion has these parts:

Premise: This is a dp/throw guessing game.
Premise: A blocked rising tackle leads to eating a super.
Premise: A hit rising tackle or a throw leads to at most 2000 damaage.

Conclusion: This guessing game is not in rock’s favor.

Please try to assail this theory by either of the premises stated. Thanks!


#9

:lol: :lol: :lol: its more like.

" why hath he not moved? the fool, ill punish his incompetance!
have at thee! shoryuken!

… **** :wtf: rising tackle? the knave! ill toss the fellow…
… **** :wtf: rising tackle? ive been deceiced! insolent! ill block his cunniness!
… **** a second d. repukken! blast it! :fury: (tries to throw but wiffs the s.f cuz rock shifts and evac into early “money shot” and s.fh and starts the trap again) …:mad: :mad: :fury: … FUCK YOU BITCH… i hate you! AAAHHHHHH!!

hehe oh and nako can roll out of this trap if you dont catch her or the d.reppuken is late cuz she has a long roll. AND sorry to be an asshole but its RAISING STORM not RAGING STORM.

burghy you are right BUT the trap is not limited to being used ONLY if the opposing party has a reserved lvl 3. you also failed to include that rock does have a 3 respectable choice ( aside from the many possibilities ) throw, rising tackle (not dp different priority), AND the rage run type- shift, a move which only rock is in possesion of. different from a warp because of the evac toss…
shinkuu nage… whatever. in respects to your assertion the trap is not invincible but if you use this trap in only one round its is worth the effort. besides if you add the lvl 3 variable to rock then the whole thing changes. to assail all aspects of this trap would mean to use all of the characters against this trap and their wake and or special which would take too much time.


#10

Well said fellow Rock player. Well said.


#11

could you block his stupid rising tackle and the hit him on the way down?

couldnt k-groove be “washed,rinsed,repeated” twice and then lvl 3 your ass?

after a k-groove super im sure you’ll stop that trap.


#12

nerenatwaH, dont waste your time on this one, this shit is dumb because in the end, its a guessing game… anticipation at best. you could argue what would happen and all that shit and itll never be solved for example.

on your replies…
your first reaction to block… ill throw

ill jump away after the second time… starting to get the idea…

why? because im psychic just like the thread starter. when its all said and done you cant type your next move in the arcade.


#13

I wasn’t flaming you.

Try out what I said, espeically the cross up vs. Rising Tackle. A correctly placed cross up beats it out every single time. This is why EX Vice owned normal Terry in CvS1 (among other reasons and other characters). It has ground priority for the first hit. After that, it gets hit out by any high priority normal, or trades with anything else.

I have been playing Rock since Beta version when it came out in Japan. I was posting shit up about him before Buktooth ever did his review (which was more in-depth than me playing random new characters hoping to find out all thier shit and win against Japanese people at my local arcade). The only trap he ever had was in Beta version when his Level 3 Shine Knuckle was twice as fast as it is now. You could jab Reppuken at full screen and if they short jumped, normal or super jumped, countered it with another projectile, or Rolled, you could Level 3 them ON REACTION from FULL SCREEN. They changed that real quick.

All of Rock’s “traps” now have holes in them that allow him to either be:

  1. RCed
  2. DPed
  3. Level 2 or Level 3ed
  4. CCed
  5. In some cases that involve you doing a block string and ending it with a Double Reppuken, characters like Cammy with a “hopping” dash can actually recover and Dash over your projectile and throw you.

What he has are mind games, if you know him well and you know your match up well. He doesn’t have any traps, sorry.


#14

man, you guys are too nice. i’m trying very hard to not post, because if i do, onedumbgook (what kind of nickname is this, anyway?!) will go up in flames, since you guys provided all the logical arguments.


#15

If it is a guessing game, then it’s 50/50 of being successful/failure. Why would anyone use a trap that only works about 50 percent of the time.

If you have learn math and probability, you should understand this. To have this trap work 3 cycles successfully is 1/2 * 1/2 * 1/2 = 1/8. If you can’t do this easy math and have to whoop out of your calculator, it is 0.125. So only 12.5 percent of time will this trap work 3 times in a row. So, precisely, this trap is too sucky and has too low of success rate to be called a trap. In conclusion, it is not a trap.


#16

what

I’m sorry i’m not trying to doubt all of you rock players skills but this trap mixed with level 3 command trow med punch bufferd on and on and on. to make a long story short i seen with my own eyes one of those NC boys own a whole tourney with this trap. And he actually almost upset Autoro with this trap best of 3 (talking between 5_15%). this trap done properly WILL make you feel stupid.:bluu: I don’t play rock at all but the reason i came in here was to see a sure fire way out of it lol. best i can figure is to roll the first time and hope for the best.


#17

On occasion it has made me feel stupid too when I’m on the receiving end of it. Unfortunately, I don’t see too many people use it. Best way out of it, because I always try to go for it; is to delay getup or instant getup. Every groove has one or the other. Most people train themselves to use them. Of course, instant getup can get you very f’ed up in a hurry if someone expects you to do it. Delay getup is great cuz you can do it off quick knockdowns (like Kyo’s jumping d+fp) and even throwdowns (like kyo’s kick throw). But both the delay getup and instant getup screw your timing.

Against scrubs you can use it over and over again, cuz they won’t understand why it works. Some people automatically think they screwed up THEIR timing and will again try a recovery dp or try to hit you after the double rebuken.

Against good people, (if they haven’t seen it before) they’ll see right off the bat that they must block the rising tackle. And lemme tell you, it is so easy to tell who will block and who won’t. If he’s smart. don’t repeat it, just do a double rebuken and walk up and throw. Its just as quick as a tick throw, since most of your double rebuken animation occurs while your opponent is down, and the pushback is extremely minimal.

Oh btw, roll won’t work unless the rock player has screwed up his timing. Yeah… its a bitch…

Oh and as for all the so called holes that stupid fugger Mummy-B listed, I’ll tell you a couple of things:

  1. RC… it won’t work. Why? Remember, the double rebuken animation is a double hit, and anyone trying to roll from the ground will get hit. So the only theoretical oppurtunity to roll is after blocking the double rebuken. So therefore, the only oppurtunity to RC is after blocking the double rebuken. But you’ll always have that first bit of roll animation during any RC and this trap stuffs out the roll from the start. So no dice fool.

  2. dp… it won’t work, fierce rising tackle from the ground has much more priority and it begins INSTANTLY after the double rebuken is finished.

  3. lvl 2 or 3 super… well duh. lvl 2 or 3 super beats out anything ya moron. How observant of you. Oh, btw tell me how many lvl 2 or 3 supers you have during a typical round?

  4. CC … you’d think it’d work but it won’t. Why? Well there are two places where you can activate the CC. One is straight from the ground while getting up. It won’t work because the double rebuken is a 2-stage fireball. So even if you were to CC through the first one, the 2nd one would hit you. Besides, the timing of the trap requires you to start the double rebuken before you start getting up. So you can never do anything but block the double rebuken except a lvl 2 or 3 super. Now… can you activate after you’re done blocking the doble rebuken and maybe hit him before or during the rising tackle? No. Because the rising has multiple hits right off the bat and while the first may wiff, the rest will hit you before you can do a damn thing. And since you can’t block, you’ll get taken for a ride and waste your CC.

  5. i have no idea wtf youre talkin about. Again, the trap works like this: when opponent is knocked down in corner and lying down, you start a double rebuken right above him, since it is 2 staged, the opponent must block upon recovery. While the double rebuken animation is going on, you charge up the rising tackle. You release the fierce rising tackle right after the double rebuken animation. Although there is usually push back after an attack is blocked, the rising tackle overrides it, and you won’t get pushed back at all. There is no space between blocking the double rebuken and the rising tackle in which to get a move in. NONE. I don’t know how cammy and walk over it or whatever you said.

Again, if you’re lying down in the corner, you can not do a single thing upon recovery to beat out the double rebuken (except lvl 2 or 3 super). You can’t roll, you cant dp, you can’t cc, you cant rc. Between the double rebuken and the rising tackle, you can’t even do the lvl 3 super. And that’s it.


#18

good points but from what i gather there is no point in doing the rising takle in the first place. his full command throw will go right behind you and you are in the air. He has the trap laced so tight and is so bad in you head you may eat about 5 dunks b4 you get a rising takle. Trust me the guys he plays are good and half of the time we are begging for him to just do the damn super. I will close by saying i hate rock way worse that honda geese orwho the fuck ever. Just give me some advice on ways to beat that damn sweep and i will be ok. I rushdown-rock sweep-:bluu: I roll-rock-double crapuking:mad: I jump-rock standing roundhouse lp crapukin, there is that fuking sweep again! :mad: :mad: :frowning:


#19

I’m sure anyone else who wants to give you advice on how to down Rock’ll ask… with which characters are you fighting him with?

Also, in terms of the run phase shift into throw. I’ve been poked out of it so many times I barely use it anymore. Yes, since you’re next to him after the double rebuken, the run phase’s built-in invincibility wil protect you, but once Rock is on the other side, you can get poked out of it.


#20

:lol: lol hehehe… fugger… * <----wipes tear from eye…

ok ok i know u got alot of shit from people that dont know what this trap can do ( :sweat: aside from the dicks talking trash) but i play rock, in fact im very good with rock, i can beat cammys and blankas with rock most of the time lets just put it that way with no rc. ( no scrubs either ) but rc blanka elec WILL beat the trap. also the second reppuken dissapears if rock gets hit during the first one last time i checked. the best way to get out of the trap is to keep blocking hoping that rock will still rising tackle cuz that how the trap gets started u can argue all u want about just throwing after the first d.reppuken but no one knows for sure who will do what, i play it safe and only do jab rising tackle everytime im in the trap and anyone that says it is not a trap, is wrong, i know im contradicting myself from the last page but ya it is a trap, a corner trap. :cool: and ummm… :o if i time a roll just right, i could get out the d reppuken it wont hit you from the back unless ur iori or something and even if it does hit him, the trap is foiled cuz u cant do shit while u turn… hmmm well maybe evac toss :sweat: and then throw them back to the corner but… damn u onedumbgook damn u… no no cuz that shit would be too complicated to do and then u would have to have perfect timing AND they can throw or jump away…

j.dp will beat the rising tackle because even tho the rising tackle has better off groung priority, jab dp has invulnerability frames :bluu: besides no one can have perfect timing anyway so if u were to challenge both of them i would bet on the dp

haha “moron”, dude dont get bitter, people talk shit and if u suspect a lvl 3 then shift that shit and let the animation run while they wiff the lvl 3 and sit back and watch rock toss his hair hehe well maybe thats is just me and my cocky bastardness :cool:

i think ur not doing all the math in this, how bout if u do it on akuma and he ccs and then hurricane kicks or cc then roll while rock is till doing the d reppuken. it depends on the character u play against cuz if u were to play against ME ( i play n-groove) i would counter the d reppuken or command roll behind u and start the trap on u :slight_smile:

in mummy-bs defence, he was talking about a block string. most of the time u c. jab, c. short, c.mk reppuken or j hardedge right. but some people try to roll by the reppuken so IN ANTICIPATION, u d reppuken and they eat a double gust fist-sandwich ( for the third time ioris love the double reppuken :lol: )

mr orochi bulldog ill set shit straight

c. groove u alpha counter ( i dont know the exact name go eat an ass! )

a. groove u alpha counter or cc the hell out of there ( the double reppuken that is! )

p. groove u parry the first hit and jab rock!

s. groove ur fucked hahahahahahahahahahahahaha :lol: :evil:

n. groove u alpha counter or command roll ( dont know the correct name either so go eat out a fat chick )

k. jd the the d reppuken and keep blocking the first time rock tries the trap and the second time ur on ur own…

well thats it for me. the trap is not invinsible so let not depend on it. [peace]