Rog's crazy combos; are they worth it?

balrog

#1

I’m not talking about merely using cr. mp in RU loops, but stuff like what R does at 2:30 in this video:

[media=youtube]k4WOhpfpgmM[/media]

That combo requires one to maintain charges, FADC, and hit a series of one frame links all in one go. It also requires two bars of meter.

My question is, is it worth it to seriously work on this? I ask this because the way I currently use Balrog, execution is a total non-issue. When I want to do damage, it just happens without any effort at all, even if I’m nervous or uncomfortable in my environment, because his regular combos are so easy.

Is the higher damage worth the incredible increase in difficulty, risk of dropped combos, and greater meter use?


How to dash punch? - Balrog General Q&A thread
#2

Seems like it’s worth learning to do for the sake of having it in your arsenal even if it’s not worth the damage in a match.

Personally I don’t want to be restricted by execution.
If the situation comes up where I have to FADC a Dash punch to maintain a combo/do that little bit extra to win a round, and I can’t hit the combo then it’d suck.

I don’t think im articulating my point as well as I should be but basically It’s worth learning but probably not worth using.


#3

Two words should stick in your mind when considering such combos.

“Stun” & “Corner”

There’ve been games where I’ll happily quad-RU Loop an opponent from one corner to the other and finish with headbutt - Depending on the characters stun, all it can take from that point is anything from a fierce to a single BnB and say hello to a dizzy opponent and thats just with crappy JabShortEXRU loops, not CSRH, CMP RU Loops which obviously hurt twice as much as does twice as much stun.

For example, Akuma can be stunned in a single JRH CSRH Short EX RU Jab Short Headbutt, so imagine what those ballsy 1f link combo’s do to the likes of Akuma/Dhalsim/Seth etc, nevermind Blanka.

Stun, stun, stun .


#4

I don’t recall Balrog having any 100% stun combos against any of the cast, i remember getting REALLY close, like 25 to stun. Maybe Seth…maybe. fierce dash straight FADC jab, is probably unnecessary. IMO the only reason you’d want to do that would be to combo on a crouching opponent, as that’s his only way to get decent damage on a crouching opponent without using a reset with an overhead or some other such non-sense.

In any combos, the majority of all of his stun comes from everything up to the first rush upper/special, anything after that is just icing on the cake. Big stun comes from a string like j.hp/hk, cl.hk, cr.mp xx hp.ds/ex.ru that alone does about 550 to 600. As far as damage stun/goes, any combo you do after fierce dash straight, FADC, cr.lp etc, can be replaced by fierce dash straight, FADC, cr.lp, cl.hp. The damage/stun is almost the same in terms of stun versus execution (meaning you definitely get more stun, but the margin isn’t as big as it may seem).


#5

Stun is the only reason most of the time, but it fills a role though as it’s the only way to get an extension on an opponent who isnt in close normal range whilst crouching. Could be useful in a clutch situation, it’s as polenykes said.

Balrog is capable of around 900 stun, over if I remember correctly without counter-hit with a jump in - assuming these tougher combos are used.


#6

On paper, I think that crazy-half-a-frame-links are rarely worth it in long ass combos. That’s assuming a human is a robot and anything that is punishable/droppable is not worth the risk.

But honestly, it never hurts to have more in your arsenal, you never know when you need it.


#7

I tried some combos today, Rog is NOT capable of any stun that’s +850 w/o a reset. Without a jump, in, the attacks that will do the most stun are cl.hk, ex.OH, and cr.mk. Generally jump-ins give you the most stun since every hit of your start string does about 200 stun. J.hk/hp cl.hk, cr.mp xx ex.ru on it’s own does about 550 stun, adding another loop plus cr.lp, cr.mp xx hp.hb gets Rog to about 835 or so and them damage scaling drops the stun off pretty heavy.

In general, you want to use a combo that uses jabs/light attacks as LATE as possible to maximize your stun. Stun also lets you apply a shit ton of pressure since if the opponent is blocking, stun is being maintained so they are forced to do their best to get away from you and not get thrown or CH since they’ll get stunned.

Seth’s Stun was 800 Pre-AE, is now 900, Akuma’s is 850 currently, so it should be possible to stun Akuma with one good Jump in, but at that point there would be no damage you could get after the stun (because of scaling). So best case scenario is a long combo into a tick throw reset, or into a frame trap for crouch-techs which will stun the opponent and not put you at ridiculous damage scaling. If you’re going for stun that’s the MOST important thing to keep in mind: when you actually get the stun since it can make/break the match.


#8

Max non-counterhit is 925 - I think, my own numbers say otherwise but I can’t remember if counter-hit was set on for the other combos.
[media=youtube]jxGT9sOHOlU[/media]


#9

A movie like above was made donkeys years in Vanilla showing a similar combo on the entire vanilla cast - Try as I might, when this thread was first made, I went hunting for it but simply cannot find it, think it’s long since been deleted - Memory of it is very hazy (I was new to SF4 when I saw it first and was mostly watching it for the ‘crazy combo’ as opposed to number crunching) but for some vague reason I seem to remember it stunning Dhalsim (Who I assume has/had very very slightly higher stun than Akuma/Seth - I just remember it being Dhalsim and not Seth/Akuma) despite the fact that one or maybe two CMP’s were swapped out for CShorts (Again, if I remember right) - I can’t tell if it was Counter-Hit set, I assume it wasn’t but anyway…

It’s neither here nor there - I just remember him going through EVERYONE with this one combo and at least one person ate a dizzy…

Like Enig says, though, it relies entirely on a close jumpin for the opener - Landing massive stun from grounded is a different ballgame - Even I can stun someone from a jumpin-reset in 10 seconds but you wont see me do anything but crap BnB’s for low damage/stun on the ground.

Ultimately we must assume the likes of -R- saves meter and those funky combo’s for the 2nd round where landing a demoralizing RU Loop combo to a dizzy can really mount pressure even if you can’t net much damage against said dizzied person via scaling, unless of course you reset or maintain said achieved stun and just keep fishing for it after a combo (Such as doing above funky combo, then just fishing for a few RH pokes after they’ve woken up just to maintain pressure and try to dizzy them from a single hit, rather than punch them to dizzy from a 3-5-8 hit combo with scaling waiting with baited breath).

Good players will be very mindful of their stun even though it’s invisible to us - There have been games where I’ve eaten a hefty amount of fierces or combo’s and don’t even stop to think that if I don’t back off and avoid either damage or blockstun I’m going to get dizzied - It doesn’t even register in my mind.

Ultimately this only has medium relevence to “Are crazy combos worth it” - But stun is the core benefit, even if number crunching and meter-management will tell you it’s not exactly the most viable thing to do.


#10

damn that was god like.


#11

Good discussion in this thread.

Rogs optimum damage/stun is(?):
j.hk, cl.hk, cr.mp xx Ex.RU cr.lp, cr.mp xx Ex.RU cr.lp, cr.mp xx hp.HB

right? or is there something better in the loops? if you could go cr.lp, cl.hk, cr.mp in the loops that would be sick!

I remember landing a one reset stun: pretty standard reset though so not very reliable.
j.hk, cl.hk, cr.mp xx Ex.RU cr.lp, cr.mp - - Ex.OH cr.mp xx hp.HB


#12

the most stun for two bars will probably be: j.hk, cl.hk, cr.mp xx hp.ds FADC cr.lp, cl.hk, cr.mp xx hp.ds or something to that effect. Remember that cl.hk does 200 stun base which is about 175 scaled, while cr.lp, cr.mp does about 150 stun but ~120 with scaling.

after an ex.ru, you can only do: (1) cr.lp, st.lp, st/cr.hk, (2) cr.lp, cr.mp xx ex.ru/ds etc, (3) cr.lp, cr.hp, (4) cr.lp, st.lp, cr.mp xx ex.ru
after an hp.ds, FADC, you can do: (1) cr.lp, cl.hk, (2) cr.lp, cl.mp, (3) cr.lp, cl.hp (and all of the above obv)

And also keep in mind that most if not everyone’s numbers are done on an opponent with FULL health. If you opponent has below half health, the numbers get scaled from the start, and get scaled more, the less health they have (sf4’s implementation of the magic pixel).


#13

Ahhhh, the MAGIC PIXEL!

[media=youtube]F3OqYvzQOXY[/media]

A blessing and a curse! After all this time I didn’t even know things scaled based on remaining health - Goes to show ya, even playing SF4 since the start of Vanilla don’t make you cool and smrt :slight_smile: I mean, smart.

NOTE: Above has zero to do with crazy combos… Bleh.


#14

it seems i can only pull off the fadc to jab with fierce versions of straight and upper. its pretty cool, if you dont have ultra and you hit confirm a jab followed by lp mp straight fadc jab it really adds to the pressure.

on another note, ive spent 30 minutes trying to jab to ultra. iv done every timing i can after a jab or even trying to cancel from it. does it still work in 2012?


#15

yes u can only do it off fierce and roundhouse rushes. Sub to diclawsus on youtube and ill throw up a two(maybe more) vids on doing each one, the frame advantages, the differences of each in terms of hitbox on various members of the cast, proper followups to the fadc low jab vs various cast members etc.
Damn right it works. I pull it off in match prob one out of every 3-5 games at least with like a 90+ percent land rate.


#16

Yes it’s worth it in some situations because of the reset potentials. Also linking c.LP after the fadc HP rush punch combos into cs.HK but is also a built in frame trap on block. You can also throw instead. So for 2 bars lots of options of things to do.


#17

The only one I’m ever using is jump hk st.hk>cr.mp>ex rush upper>cr.jab cr.mp> hp headbutt. Only one meter and great damage and only 2 1 frame links. THe only one the looks worth it to me.
When I’m fighting sim or guile and I don’t have 4, I’ll do everything in my power to get them to the corner. In that case its kinda worth it.


#18

Well then you are foolish…imagine this scenario. you are vsing a deejay who is mashing buttons the moment he sees u stop moving outside throw range. u have also just hit guile with a few small mixups say a throw and a jab to sweep combo. he mashes short as even good players do so u ex dash straight to absorb the hit but wait…there’s moarrrrr! After the ex straight u fadc, dash forward cr.lp-standing close hk-far jab then ultra. he now just ate stun and 483 dmg(if full stock ultra) not to mention got stuck in the corner with less then 150 stun keeping him from being stunned. To me that is a good scenario even if you’re spending 3 stock and an ultra. Having combos like this is no different than having anti airs. Give yourself more tools and you’re better in more situations.


#19

Lol no.
That in my opinion is how you waste meter. The only reason for me to use an fadc with rog is if I do a stupid dash punch or to bait and punish with ultra.
I might get a lot of flack for that response but I barely play Rog anymore and I’ve never seen any successful rogs other than R even attempt that. 483 damage and “near stun” is no reason for me to attempt a combo of that difficulty even more so in a setting with that much pressure! Especially if it uses all my meter and wastes all my ultra damage that I could save for a comeback. Call me a scrub man but that is just not worth it.


#20

Well you are foolish sorry to say. Cornering somebody with less then 150 stun left is an insanely favorable position and keep in mind that if you hit all that chances are you are making a comeback already. Furthermore if u do stun them after that u will nail them with 1-3 hits to do so which means you have a juicy combo after that will kill or put them within 10% of death or less while cornered. If u feel creating that is a waste then I have nothing else to say.

With regards to iceage he is the reason I mastered half those combos. That and ae rig had me looking to do more Dmg due to head Dmg nerf. With that said and everybody going “you are no R!” fine… My next Vid is today showing me doing this stuff say 10 times in a row. After I will show my secret as to how I land this so easily… And I guarantee everybody that sees the Vid will say I’m lame or godlike. To the hatred I say this ahead daigo himself did it in yun days and Seth Lillian said daigo told Seth this. Was all said during evo stream in 11. Diclawsus on YouTube sometime in the next 4 hours.