Rolling = free escape?


#1

A quick question to whoever played the game or watched enough videos of good players playing it:

Other than baiting a wakeup roll like it’s a freaking teleport with jump back attacks, how do you punish it? It’s invincible and barely has recovery frames (if any really!). Looks like a pretty stupid free way to escape corner pressure.

Option selecting it won’t work because the roll gets executed faster than the normal wakeup time. It seems like jump-in mixups and pressure (normal, x-up…etc) will be a lot less useful in this game.

Also, how the fuck do you disable the stupid automatic noob mode combo when pressing jab + roundhouse or short + fierce in the game?


#2

you can os it to apply pressure instead of punish. i only figured this out earlier to day. heres an example. kazuya has a f. lk move and a b. lk move
if i space it right and do b lk and they roll f lk will come out. ( it may be the other way around though) so it can be OS’d just to keep the pressure on though. at least for now


#3

Right now it’s a pretty free escape, but it doesn’t put them at any real frame advantage. Just positional. It’s something you have to take into account, and I think eventually we’ll see setups that will cover potential roll escapes.


#4

Did you actually try that?

I played the game a bit at my friend’s house, similar option selects were used to punish backdashes in SF4 (like cr.lk, cr.lk+cr.hk) with characters who can chain their cr.lk attacks.

The problem with SFxTekken is that rolls unlike backdashes get active a lot faster than backdashes, so it’ll get pass you way before you execute your meaty attack that’s option selected.

Being totally invincible (i.e not vulnerable to even throws like Abel’s EX roll in SF4), having different timing than a character’s wakeup time and barely having any kind of recovery frames will probably make this thing the most annoying aspect of the game for me, I’ve always enjoyed safejump pressure and mixups in SF. Of course that’s just my opinion, no need to get all butthurt trying to defend the game, I’ve already bought it too.


#5

If they predict it, they can just back jump and hit you with an jumping over head and combo after that.


#6

You can’t cover all their options because even if they don’t roll forward they have an invincible backdash. This is actually one of the things I hate the most in this game right now. That and ryu getting his roflcopter back.


#7

You can’t punish rolls because they have no recovery. Basically a roll lets you wake up in one spot, or wake up in another after a react-able animation. There’s no real downside to rolling if you like the new positioning.

On the other hand, reversals in this game are really bad, and cross-ups are really good. The SF4 approach of “fish for hard knockdown, do an OS mix-up” just plain doesn’t work, but meaties and predictive jump-ins are probably pretty good. Even a half-assed pseudo-vortex is actually really good in this game because if you kill one character they lose, so if you can keep a character under pressure without an opportunity to tag, that’s actually quite effective. That’s the main reason not to get knocked down in this game - getting knocked down with low health and a full health partner is super dangeorus.


#8

i thought there was a small amount of recovery. im sure ive seen rolls get punished with a jump attack


#9

Rolls are sometimes effective, sometimes they backfire. If I predict a roll with my girl asuka I take a step back for just a frame or two and jump back HP and I don’t know which side I land on and they sure as hell don’t either. Shit’s fun!


#10

Yes, there is a small amount of recovery. Anybody who’s went into training mode, turned on auto-block and forward roll recovery, would know.


#11

Rolling is safe against SF4 players that like to jump on you a lot.

Rolling is not safe against everybody else that sits between your position and where you will roll to.

Rolling is an option for you and against your opponent. Option selects will not be as dominant here compared to SF4 since most of the moves in that game cover just that knockdown space. These are pretty much as punishable as something compared to like teleports in SF4 where you option select something that reaches them.

I feel the rolling is good as it makes option selects more precise and fair in the playing field. Everybody must commit to something.


#12

Thats what i was thinking make a good read on a roll. Then your going to eat an ambiguous hit and possibly a combo.
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#13

If you watch the Mike Ross vs Jago SFxTK video you can see Jago getting grabbed when he tried to roll out of the corner. I’m not sure if that was a command grab cause I don’t know Marduk’s moveset.


#14

All this means is that SFIV players will have to rely less on wake ups OS, like regular FG players.


#15

Just like marvel far as rolling and junk. You can have sets up and what nots but if you depend on vortex they might be less effective. You just have to make good reads. but it helps characters with poor wake up a bit. I like it.


#16

Lol, how many times are we going to have this discussion, where people can’t agree on the key factual issue of whether rolls have recovery frames or not. Whether they have no recovery or small recovery is a huge huge difference to the entire game. So which is it people?


#17

mike ross had a video of catching the roll all the time…maybe the one vs jago? I’m not 100%


#18

I’m like 99% sure it doesn’t have any recovery, if it does maybe it’s a frame or 2 lol.

I tuned Block ALL option in training mode (auto block doesn’t work for this btw) and I couldn’t catch any recovery frames after they roll, whether via jabs or other normals. I spent 5 minutes doing that without any luck.

People who get hit by jump-in attacks after rolling is probably because they didn’t know where to block (x-up or not).

To all the people who say this only effects SF4 OS abusing players, you’re wrong. This changes the entire jump-in pressure/safejump game, it’ll be more about baiting rolls with jump backs or something while staying grounded specially when you worked hard to corner your opponent (those stages look fucking huge!), it’s kind of like everybody has a teleport but without recovery lol

I guess they had to nerf wakeup jump-in pressure game since everybody has a ton of ways to knock opponents down via chains, still bothers the hell out of me though since that’s the kind of pressure that I really enjoy and I’m sure many other SF players feel the same way too.


#19

Well if you get them in the corner just assume a roll and walk or jump back. If they stand up they are still in the corner, and if they roll you get an ambiguous attack for free. Either way it’s bad for them still.

I’m just glad this game isn’t going to be safe vortex setups all day.


#20

Here you go :slight_smile:
[media=youtube]C6XrBAv_NPE[/media]

just watched and the quality is bad. idk y ill try to upload a better one, but you can still see it