Rose A-ISM


#1

I’ve started playing Alpha 3 again now that I got Broadband and Kaillera (When I can find a game :frowning: ) And picked up Rose and Sim as my main characters.

Has anyone got some good strats for A-Rose, good and bad match ups (Vs Guy would be handy)

At the mo I the base of my game is played off the excellent Alpha Anthology guide. But any tips matchups vids would be awesome.

Cheers.


#2

First and foremost: Rose is a bad choice in online play. She’s very timing specific and you need good reaction to play her, since she gains a lot from counter hits and needs to accurately set up her illusion to be effective. You can’t play her online the way you can offline. Also, her worst matchups are all top tiers @Kaillera.

[matchups]

[3-7] Gouki (V), Chun (any), Gief (any)
[4-6] Sodom (V), Claw (any), Sak (V), Charlie (V) Sagat (V), Karin (V)
[5-5] Ryu (V), Ken (VA), Gen (A), Guy (A), Cody (V), Cammy (VA), Juni (V), Birdie (AV), Blanka (AV), Adon (any)
[6-4] Mika (VA), Dictator (A), Honda (AV), Boxer (any), Juli (V)

She has quite some bad matchups with common characters. Still, don’t give up on her too fast, she’s an experience on her own with her unblockables, links and whatnot … Soul Illusion is the most awesome super in the whole game ! … if you give her some time you’ll notice that too :wgrin:

…yeah, i’ll post some more useful stuff later, just wanted to tell you: work on her, she’s worth it.


#3

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=13198


#4

I hate A3 with lag in general, but I guess you could do OK with Rose, since you can randomly hit people with the super on the way up from a jump or walking forward, or just do random guesses, and you probably have a pretty good shot. Really, you may as well play X.

I will say that in the old thread linked above (which makes me sad, because I realize I still don’t have a car), I really underrated the Soul Illusion. You can’t do it every 2 seconds despite the fact that you may develop the urge to (funny story- I was watching a 3S vid of Mike Z using Makoto with the PMS super, and I could tell in advance when he was going to do the super, since the instinct is the same, even if Rose’s does less damage in A3). The damage to the guard meter can be a big thing, you can build meter while doing it, so even if you don’t get a full meter back you’re sorta OK. You can interrupt people’s activations if you can bait them, and there’s the unblockable stuff, etc. It’s really pretty good.

It’s a shame once you use it you don’t have access to the level 3/X-ISM Aura Soul Throw, because that super is seriously almost obscene. If you couldn’t mash down the damage, players wouldn’t be allowed to use it in Georgia or Texas, because it would be considered an act of sodomy and is against the law.


#5

Okay, here’s a short overview of Rose’s normal move data …

[normals]

  • move
  • (damage, dizzy, gauge plus whiff/hit)
  • [startup, hitting frames, recovery, frame (dis)advantage block/hit/counter]
  • rating

(s = standing, c = crouching, n = near, j = jumping, f = forward, df = downforward)

s.jab (5,2,0/1) [4/4/7,+3/+4/+9] **
c.jab (4,2,0/1) [3/4/7,+3/+4/+9] ***
s.strong (12,4,1/3) [6/5/11,+3/+4/+8] ****
n.strong (12,4,1/3) [7/6/16,-5/-4/0] *
c.strong (11,4,1/3) [4/7/9,+3/+4/+8] *****
s.fierce (14,8,1/4) [14/3/19,+1/+2/-] **
n.fierce (16,8,1/4) [7/4/19,0/+1/-] ***
c.fierce (15/14,8,1/4) [6/2/25,-4/-3/-] ****

j.jab (5,2,0/1) [4/10/9] **
j.strong (10,4,1/3) [8/8/9] **
j.fierce (15,8,1/4) [7/4/20] ****

s.short (5,2,0/1) [6/4/12,-2/-1/+4] *
c.short (4,2,0/1) [3/4/7,+3/+4/+9] ****
s.forward (10,4,1/3) [7/6/19,-6/-5/-1] **
n.forward (10,4,1/3) [12/3/20,-4/-3/+1] *
c.forward (10,4,1/3) [6/6/13,0/+1/+5] *****
df forward (9,4,2/3) [7/10/20,-2/-1/+3 to -11/-10/-6] ****
s.roundhouse (14,6,1/4) [12/2/37,-16/-15/-] ***
f roundhouse (12/15,4/8,2/3-4) [9/8/28,-13/-12/-] **
n.roundhouse (15,8,1/4) [10/3/25,-5/-4/-] * (*** in V)
c.roundhouse (14,8,1/4) [8/4/29,-10/-/-] *****

j.short (4,2,0/1) [4/10/12] *****
j.forward (10,4,1/3) [5/6/25] *****
j.roundhouse (15,8,1/4) [8/4/17] ***

… ordered by importance:

[***] c.strong, c.forward, c.roundhouse, j.short, j.forward
[*] c.short, df forward, c.fierce, s.strong, j.fierce
[
] s.roundhouse, c.jab, n.fierce, j.roundhouse
[
] s.jab, s.forward, s.fierce, j.strong, j.jab, f roundhouse

[*] s.short, n.strong, n.forward, n.roundhouse

More later …


#6

A few points:
–cr fierce->lv1 soul throw is your friend
–rush down and try from turtling. she isn’t that good at that anymore:(
–cr strong->cr short links without a counterhit. Makes for a good hit confirm for Lv 3 Soul Throw
–Avoid the slide. If you do use it, it is decent to use against cross ups (dont hit with it like dhalsim, but to get out of the way). On the ground, use it at it’s maximum range–recovery is terrible (thanks, Capcom:( )
–Flashy combo:
near corner–cross up MK, cr strong->Lv1 Soul Illusion, cr short->Lv2 Soul Spark, st roundhouse. Flipabble after Soul Spark, but unless they counter activate, they will eat the roundhouse (cant air block normals on the ground)
–close st MP is a decent anti air. Use it as late as possible. Cancel into Soul Throw whether it counter hits or not


#7

Just so we’re clear, the standing Roundhouse (combo or not) is not guaranteed after the Level 2 SS; it’s only an option. And only one of these is going to happen once you decide/guess:

A - the opponent doesn’t air recover and takes the Roundhouse as part of the combo. Doing this avoids option C.
B - the opponent air recovers and avoids the standing Roundhouse as part of the combo.
C - Rose waits for the air recovery and then possibly uses the standing Roundhouse to punish.


#8

Rose’s afterimages from the Soul Illusion don’t quite act as normal moves do. The relevant difference here (because I can’t remember the other one) is that the shadows of Rose’s normal moves can still be blocked in the air.

Also, air recovering backwards lets you dodge the shadows completely, while doing it forwards just means you have to block on the way down.

Random things:
-Slide is OK if done at max distance or if it lands on a Counter Hit, though even then it can’t be done from too close. With the Soul Illusion super activated you get a bit more leeway, since if you do it from the right range, it seems safe. (ie. c.SP xx Illsusion into slide is pretty safe). And generally with the slide when you use it in those ways, you can do a super/activate V-ISM/whatever right after to punish their counter attack.

-c.JP xx Soul Throw seems like an OK option select after a combo to FP Reflect in the corner. For example, jumping Fierce, crouching Strong xx FP Reflect, c.JP xx Soul Throw. If they don’t recover they get caught by the Jab, (you have to do it pretty early for it to be able to bounce them high enough to get grabbed). If they recover either forwards or backwards, they still get grabbed. You can sub in the level 1 super if you want, but it’s really not worth the damage. You have to cancel the Jab, even if it doesn’t hit, should be pretty much the same timing in all 3 scenarios. Though if they flip, you can get caught with an attack on the way down.

c.SP xx level 3 Soul Throw super also seems to work. Level 1 fireball super may work, but isn’t really worth the damage I don’t think. Same as the regular Soul Throw, plus a higher risk of them hitting you if they come down with an attack or activate.

Just doing level 1 Soul Illusion into jump throw works OK, though the throw isn’t guaranteed. But you can go for it anyway, and if they flip before/after the super, you’ll grab them, so at least you have all of the flip options covered.

etc…


#9

I use the Slide for manuevering out of crossups or trying to get around the field. Her walking speed is very slow, and her Slide will help you get to a different position a lot faster. Use it to attack an opponent head on rarely.


#10

ready to break the game ? …

[the soul illusion]

Like i said earlier, this super is what Rose is all about (… well, not really, but whatever :encore:) . I rarely use meter for something other than a level 1 illusion super, it’s a major boost to her whole game. Don’t ignore it just because it’s not as damaging as it is in A2, it’s still great.

  • all levels of activation have 2 frames startup and are vulnerable for 1 frame
  • lvl.1 = 264 frames active ~ 4.5 sec
  • lvl.2 = 384 frames active ~ 6.5 sec
  • lvl.3 = 564 frames active ~ 9.5 sec

The biggest problem is to not run out of meter in an intense match. Her best way of building meter is whiff c.MP xx qcb MP/HP, which will give you 5 points of meter in ~47 frames. If you knocked them down or have some breathing room and are out of meter, do this a few times to gain back a good chunk of meter, and hopefully enough to have that one meter to activate illusions when you need them.

[links]

Rose is a linking machine :karate: To keep it short, here are some basic and practical links:

  • c.MP/c.MK xx lvl.1 -> c.HK
  • c.LK (ch) -> c.MP/c.MK xx lvl.1 -> c.HK
  • c.MP (ch) -> c.MP/c.MK xx lvl.1 -> c.HK
  • c.MP (meaty) -> c.MP xx lvl.1 -> c.HK
  • lvl.1, c.LK -> c.MP/c.MK xx qcf HK
  • lvl.1, c.LK (meaty, unblockable) -> c.MP/c.MK xx qcf HK
  • lvl.1, c.LK (meaty, unblockable) -> c.HK

[unblockables]

Rose her illusions will be unblockable, as long as she herself is in a neutral position, because the illusions itself don’t cause a guard animation. This is the best and most fun part about the super, you should always look for openings to set up an unblockable.

(1) the illusion-powered unblockable sweep
Her c.HK is great. Because of it’s long range you’ll use it a lot to punish things. Knocking the opponent down is also very important for her, since it sets up meaty games and unblockables.
You can basically use the unblockable sweep everytime you knock the opponent down with your BnB (something xx qcf LK spiral) or your sweep, just do it early enough so that only the last illusion hits them meaty. Why doing that ? Well, not for damage (only doing one pixel), but …

  • … to set up her unblockable crossup
  • … to provoke an airflip
    Yeah, it’s flippable, but if you predict their flip correctly you can catch them out of the air with an air move (most notably j.LP, j.MP or j.HK) without them being able to do something.

(2) the unblockable crossup
The best way to set it up is after the unblockable sweep (there are other ways, but they’re very situational), if they don’t flip it …

  • unblockable sweep, (wait/walk a tiny bit), crossup j.MK (make it whiff so that only the last illusion hits), c.LK (hits with the j.MK for an unblockable) -> c.MP xx qcf HK
    The combo counter should say 14 hits (1 = illusion of j.MK; 3 = c.LK, 3 = c.MP, 7 = HK spiral), if you get 15 you mistimed the crossup and it most likely wasn’t unblockable. The timing is tricky, but practice makes perfect.

(3) meaty c.LK unblockable
The best for last :wink: This one is great, it’s the way to go if you want damage. It’s also great to bait their VC activation or reversal everything, if you do it right you are completely safe. Also, unlike the standalone c.HK unblockable, it’s not flippable. It goes like this:

  • knock them down, walkup early c.LK (only last illusion hits), wait till they get hit, link …
    … c.MP xx qcf HK
    … c.HK
    You can loop the simple c.LK -> c.HK 3 times per activation, for 15 points damage everytime you do it. It will be very hard for them to escape this bitch of a trap. To make it even better, every loop adds 8 stun points. This one will get you a full dizzy combo:
  • c.MP xx lvl.1 -> c.HK, [walkup unblockable c.LK -> c.HK] x2, reactivate lvl.1, [walkup unblockable c.LK -> c.HK] x2, dizzy
    = combo for free !
    There’s a lot of potential in meaty unblockable c.LK, and it’s easy to set up too … abuse !

[corner loops]

The illusion super, once activated, ignores the corner juggle limit, which allows some pretty crazy things.

To get started, try this:

  • (corner) lvl.2, qcb HP, [early c.LP (only last illusion hits), instant j.LK, c.HP] x3, dp HP

Of course that’s not too practical, because you need 2 bars of meter, it isn’t too damaging and flippable (although you can use that to you advantage usually when the illusions are activated … well not in this case).

here’s something more practical:

  • (corner) lvl.1, qcb HP, early s.LP (only last illusion hits), instant j.HP, c.MP xx qcb MP, early s.LP (only last illusion hits), instant j.LP, (illusion runs out) c.MP xx qcb HP

It’s a full dizzy combo (40+ stun), and a lot harder to flip because you make them land on a s.LP illusion and can act almost instantly after that, although the timing is very strict … very worth learning it though (hey, it’s a full dizzy combo c’mon ! :wgrin:).

There’s a lot more you can do in the corner, i suggest experimenting with it and find something that works for you. Rose can do a lot of damage in the corner, so it’s worth investigating her possibilities.

[anti air options]

One of Rose’s biggest weaknesses is her lack of reliable anti airs. The illusion super can help you there, but you will blow out 1 bar of meter … It CAN lead to quite some damage, still don’t overdo it, meter is precious.

(1) lvl.1, early c.MP/c.HP (only last illusion hits), early jump whatever, …
If you time a c.MP as an anti air so that only the last illusion hits, you can jump into the air just the moment the opponent will get hit. If you stick out a move fast enough, they shouldn’t be able to flip after getting hit by the illusion, the window is too small. Depending on that move you use and how you time it, wou’ll either land with or before them. If you land with them, set up a meaty unblockable. If you give them some room to flip, try option (2).
Things are different when you make them land on the last hit of c.HP, since the opponent has a small window to flip after that. You CAN catch their flip with an air move (most notably j.LP, j.MP or j.HK) without them being able to do something. it’s not the easiest thing in the world though, since anti air timing differs and you need to react accordingly. It’s possible to get a small combo with this setup, like:

  • lvl.1, early c.HP (only last illusion hits), they flip, catch them with j.LP/MP/HK, land, c.MP/HP xx dp P
    Of course, you can always use the second option too …

(2) lvl.1, early c.MP/c.HP (only last illusion hits), they flip, walk forward, c.HK (make them land on last illusion hit)
They can’t do anything about this if you have the time to set it up, since it’s unblockable. It will knock them down and sets them up for more meaty unblockable action or an unblockable crossup combo:

  • lvl.1, early c.HP (only last illusion hits), they flip, walk forward, c.HK (make them land on last illusion hit), early crossup j.MK (only last illusion hits), (unblockable) c.LK -> c.MP xx qcf HK
    They can escape this if they flip correctly, e.g. if they backflip when they are still high in the air, they are most likely too far away to land on c.HK. You can try and make them land on a slide in that case, it will keep the pressure on, so you can do some guard damage or whatever. Hopefully they are near or in the corner, so you don’t have to worry about things like that …

[breaking the guard]

If you learned how to gain and keep the momentum with Rose, it’s actually an option for her to work down the guard bar of the opponent. She has a number of moves with frame advantage (s./c.LP +3, c.LK +3, s./c.MP +3, s.HP +1), which will be even greater with activated illusions. A block string could look like this:

  • c.LP, c.LK, c.MP/c.MK xx qcf LK / s.HP
    When you worked their guardbar to <50%, activate illusions and see them getting nervous. If they aren’t doing anything, you’ll have them guard broken in only a couple of seconds, if they try to counter you, act accordingly (you should have frame advantage most of the time to keep the advantage). Walkup s.MP and c.LK are good moves to do repeatedly while soul illusions are activated. Try to break their guard with a move with quick recovery, like s.HP instead of a spiral.
    When you have them down to a blinking guard bar and they get away, remember that you have the slide. A lot of people start to panic when you activate an illusion, even from a distance. If they try to jump at you, punish them for it (see “anti air options”). If they jump or move back, fine, one step closer to the corner. If they don’t move at all, either slide your way in and pressure from there, or walk forward and see how they react.

… that’s it for now, see you soon for another episode of “hyping Rose into top tier status”.


#11

about her slide …

Rose’s slide (df forward) is one of her best moves, even if it doesn’t seem like it at first glance because of the bad recovery. I’ll try to explain why …

Rose her low moves are one of her main strengths. She has one for every range, c.LK close (fishing for counter hits to link to c.MP/c.MK into whatever, interruption tool, tick), c.MK just outside of c.MP range, c.HK (great because it outranges a lot of moves in the game, and rewards you with an oh-so-important knockdown) and her slide (hits low from very far, relatively safe from outside her c.HK range, outranges almost all moves). At the right distance the slide will give you -1 to -3 disadvantage on hit (safe, even reversal supers shouldn’t hit you) and +1 to +3 advantage on counter hit.

Having a solid low move for every range is very good, it gives the opponent something to fear, and will make him less mobile if he decides to stay on the ground the whole time. It’s somewhat balancing out the fact that Rose isn’t the fastest walker.
If he decides to jump and you weren’t able to see it coming, so what, you can always slide into safety. But that’s not all. If you can predict a jump or react fast, you can also hit the opponent into the back while he’s still in the air, like:

  • opponent jumps at your sweep range, you slide immediately and recover while he’s on the way down, c.MP (hits from behind) xx dp HP

Like somebody already mentioned, the slide is great to move around on the field. I’ll give an example:
My usual combo after a crossup j.MK is c.MP xx qcb HP (solid damage, relatively safe if blocked because it pushes you back, leaves you at a range where the opponent has more to fear than you, a no-brainer :razzy:)
If it hits, the opponent flies back very far, which is good because you want them in the corner. That’s where the slide comes into play. Use it twice after that as soon as you can, it will close the gap completely while leaving you in a position to start wakeup games.

[EDIT] I’ve talked with someone about this double slide thing, who was a little bit confused about this setup being punishable. Just to make things clear: you don’t have any advantage here. If you execute the slides perfectly (= as early as possible), you are at ~ +/-0 (= you can jump out of grab attempts and can block reversal super/activation), if you are a little off, you are at a disadvantage. Knowing how long the recovery of the slide is is crucial here.

And last but not least, it builds more meter when whiffed than your average middle strength normal (2 points instead of 1). In the example i used above, that’s 4 pixel to the meter for free while leaving you in a good position, win-win :wink:


#12

I don’t use the Slide to attack that much unless it looks like I’m at an optimal range. It is a very easy move to punish if you attack deep, as the recovery is worse than the stagger on the opponent, and they’ll recover before you do.

Thank you for the notes about the Soul Illusion. I usually use Level 3 Aura Soul Throw and finish the remainder of the rounds with bouts of Soul Illusion, but…

Has anyone found a use for Level 1 Aura Soul Spark? I have only used it to kill an opponent with mere pixels of life left, and they’re air-blocking… I can’t put it into any comboes, and, technically, that’s her only direct damage Level 1 super, so I’d love to know what it’s for in case I need to use it in a pinch since Rose isn’t exactly a hard hitter.


#13

Level 1 Spark isn’t so hot. In A2 you could use it vs pokes or to beat/trade with other fireballs at close range, or even as anti-air, but it doesn’t really work for any of those situations in A3. Just think of it as version of the Jab Soul Spark which does a little more damage, but isn’t really worth the meter.


#14

Honestly, I’ve been able to combo with it on very slow or poor opponents, and there might be a combo that you can end with it, but you’re right - I don’t think it’s worth it at all.

The most that I’ve used it for - and I’m hoping that there’s at least something more to it than what you said - is to chip an opponent to death if they’re constantly trying to outmaneuver Rose.


#15

Useless super. Everything it does, illusion does better. Example: lvl.1 illusion, c.LK -> c.MP xx qcf HK, chips away 7 pixels (14 against X) if blocked, does comparable or more damage and is unblockable meaty.

Only supers i use beside illusion are lvl.2 Aura Soul Spark and lvl.2 Aura Soul Throw. Lvl.3 Aura Soul Throw uses too much meter for too less benefit, sitting on lvl.3 meter is a bad idea, as is having zero of it left. Imo Rose NEEDS soul illusion to keep control in the long run. It’s also her only reliable anti air option if the opponent has the meter to counter-activate, Aura Soul Throw sucks in that situation.


#16

I always find myself using Soul Illusion Lv. 1 in bursts a lot more often than Aura Soul Throw Lv. 3 if I’m having trouble against a tough opponent. It works out much better that way.

Lately, I’ve been getting taken out by Chun-Lis that jump right on top of you as you try to counter their attacks, and Rose’s only attack that hits at that angle is the standing near fierce kick (Soul Piede without the command move properties).


#17

[Hyper stuff]

(damage, stun)

[DS-Ism]

Thanks to her long range HK normals, Rose is really good in DS-Ism. Her dizzy potential is pretty good, although she has no exceptional dizzy setups like Rolento (who even has a crossup combo that does 30 stun … pretty sick ^^). She still has illusions, but lvl.3 only, so you can’t abuse it anymore. It’s still good if you are confident with the super (getting those corner juggle loops, anywhere unblockable loops, CC setups, etc.).

  • s.MK -> s.HK (23, 10)

  • c.LP -> c.LK -> c.MP -> c.HK (30, 16) = better than: c.LP -> c.LK -> c.MP xx qcf LK (27, 16)

  • c.LK -> c.HP/close s.HP -> c.HK (31/32, 18)

  • (close) c.MP -> c.MK -> c.HK (33, 16)

  • dizzy after: c.LK -> close s.HP -> c.HK (knockdown), walk forward, crossup j.MK, c.LK -> close s.HP -> c.HK (32+38=70, 18+22=40)

  • dizzy after: - c.LP -> c.LK -> c.MP -> c.HK (knockdown), j.HP, close s.HP -> c.HK (30+43=73, 16+24=40)

  • most damage: j.HP, c.MP -> c.MK xx qcf x2 P (95, -)

[3rd-Ism]

Rose is scary with meter in this Ism, one parry = 65% of the opponent’s life gone. Her c.MP is also very dependable for comboing after a parry, since it’s fast (4 frames startup) and has solid range. I’ve yet to find another character that can do comparable damage to what she can deal when she has cornered the opponent. The lack of illusions is a major drawback, although she gains parry, so if you can parry well you’ll be alright i guess.

  • (parry) c.MP xx qcf LK xx qcf x2 P (88, -)
  • (parry), close c.MP xx qcb HP xx qcf x2 P (92, -)
  • crossup c.MK, c.MP xx qcb HP xx qcf x2 P (96, -)
  • most damage: j.HP, close s.HP xx qcf LK xx qcf x2 P (107, -)
  • most damage: (corner) j.HP, c.MP xx qcb HP, c.MP xx qcb HP xx qcf x2 P (124, -)
  • most damage: (corner) j.HP, c.MP xx qcb HP, (they flip) c.MP (whiffs) xx qcb HP (hits) xx qcf x2 P (44+81=125, -)

#18

Late, but…

Lv1 Soul Spark is not entirely ineffective, the spark itself is. If done close range, it takes a lot more than the original move. You almost have to be standing next to the opponent to get full damage…

Normally I’d prefer Lv3 throw or Lv2 Spark, these are best chained into combo situations. You could illusion, but if you’re going to do that then why not just select Vism.


#19

Well, I don’t find the Soul Spark in general to be useless. Occasionally, you can send tech rollers back to the other side of the field by using fierce Soul Spark.

Her hitbox becomes very strange with fierce Soul Spark, though, and I’ve gotten hit with some very odd moves at very odd angles because they tap her scarf and it extends to nearly the whole field. I use jab Soul Spark to put pressure on the opponent with a lot of projectiles. With some opponents and at the right range, they’ll keep getting hit - I try to bait them into jumping away from the little jab Soul Sparks so that I can catch them with Soul Throw, but the whole thing takes a certain sense of clairvoyance worthy of Rose herself since you have to know what they’re going to do in advance.


#20

Because it’s a totally different thing :wow: (extending combos, wakeup games, unblockables, boosted offense + defense, …)