Rose Option Select?

rose

#1

Hello! I’m not into option select…, its a new concept to me. I’m wondering if Rose has any?


#2

rose doesn’t have any invincible command moves like shoryuken so she’s sort of limited. she does have some of the same option selects as everyone else, ie:

safe jump j.hp (c.hk) c.lp.

if they block, she starts her block string, if they backdash, they get swept off their feet and onto their face.


#3

… but if they reversal wakeup shoryu… that option select gets broken, doesnt it?

BTW, do you mean pressing c. HK and c. LP at the same time?


#4

A couple simple ones I’ve had some frequent success with:

Attempting a mid range spiral while the other player is jumping over you and you get her close HK instead. Can’t say it’s my intention for that to happen, but it’s a pretty good 2 for 1 deal.

In the same scenario: attempting to slide, and when they jump over, a c.MK trip guard results.


#5

if they have a good reversal then you are boned. it works on characters that need to backdash on wakeup a lot, like vega or gen (or rose).

the idea is that you hit j.hp (your jumpin) and then hit c.hk just before you touch the ground, while they would usually be in blockstun. then you go directly into your blockstring. if they block or get hit, the game pauses (blockstun / hitstun) and your c.hk never comes out. if they backdash there is no pause and you sweep them the moment you hit the ground.

against characters like abel, who can be thrown out of most of their reversals, substitute a throw for the c.hk. if he rolls or ex-cod’s on wakeup, he gets thrown, if he takes the hit or blocks, you combo / blockstring him.

this sort of option select works much better with characters with invincible command moves like ryu. he can just buffer in ex-srk instead of just a sweep, which beats basically all other moves in the game. if they reversal it’ll come out and stuff whatever they were doing, if they block he gets a free blockstring. i guess you could try this with ex-spiral, but i strongly suspect you’d just get stuffed most of the time.

edit: well, you can always try to option-select with ultra like akuma does off of dive kick …


#6

What about option select with ultra like Akuma do ?

A friend of mine talk me about that.

Edit : oups blackadde :confused:


#7

the problem with option select ultra is that nobody is afraid of rose to the point where they really need to backdash a lot. at least in my experience.

in case anyone wasn’t familiar with akuma’s deal, akuma can setup safe-ish divekick setups off forward throw or tatsu-sweep (untechable knockdown). they have to either take the divekick mixup or if they backdash they eat a demon. the vast majority of characters can’t reversal the meaty divekick because they’ll get stuffed or whiff (even sagat!), setting up a free punish.


#8

If you are afraid of her frame trap perhaps


#9

Hmmm… Option selects are new to me. However I did see a pretty cool video on Ryu option selects. That got me thinking about my game play and how I might be able to throw things in there. I haven’t picked the game up in a few weeks, so I’m gonna throw a few things out there, feel free to tell me if these will work.

Blackadde mentioned a good one that I saw from akuma. c.lp, clp + hk. If they try and backdash they’re boned. Sweep takes priority and they get a kd.

Would this work? J.HP, option select EX Drill. On hit it wouldn’t come out, but if your facing Rose…whats rose gonna do that will beat out an EX drill? Only thing is an Ex drill, which…its a question on who’s will win. Worth testing? Rose has nothing…Same would apply to El Fuerte. Does Ex Drill beat out Goukens Armor Parry counter?

I think we should really start looking at double inputs and trying to find the bases it could cover.


#10

why would you option select EX drill? it’s based off of if you whiff a jump-in because the other person backdashed, but not everybody has a good backdash. I bet LK spiral could hit most of the cast if OS’d.

I personally don’t do it because I rarely face a person who backdashes as much as I do. I also kind of see it as an OCD tactic, cuz there’s no way of knowing when a person will backdash. Also it can screw you over.

[media=youtube]oeag7_7V48U#t=7m57s[/media]


#11

Here’s a neat video showing option selects for everyone: [media=youtube]tnXYcNgLE5M[/media]
Seems like Rose has an option select for her super, which seems kinda meh, but can be useful due to invincibility frames.
It would be nice if she had option selects for her soul throw =/


#12

soul throw can catch people in backdash, I bet UltraDavid just didn’t think to test it. Maybe sweep or slide would be a good subordinate input on jump in. Can’t think of any possible OS off standing moves except maybe sc.mk, but that’d be pretty intense.


#13

Did u tried it? the angle of the soul throw is weird to catch a backdash no? except in corner.


#14

Im pretty sure it works there was a forum about it a while ago that list the details on how to do it.The thing about it was that it only works on certian characters and some more so than others.(there are some ppl that it wont work on at all because their hitbox doesn’t leave the ground on backdash.) In the end it a situational tactic, nothing to fall back on.

I was lookin at the frame data and trying to find something that was as fast as AuraSS. There only three that i think come close Slide,Cr.Hk,Piety(in the order of speed fastest to slowest). I dont know if they would work as good as what we just saw but maybe they can be tested out?


#15

You can do it on anyone that isn’t in the corner if they have a huge slow “jump” backdash.

You can catch Sagat after like the whole animation lol. But yeah, I don’t option select. I don’t see the point of it. If I have a super, I’d rather burn the meter or do my super.


#16

I didn’t try using it as an option select, but I’ve definitely done it in anticipation of a jump and it worked on them backdashing. One of those fortunate situations, however stupid.

Refer to the dashing chart in the wiki. Every character except for ken and dan have frames in which they’re airborne. The airborne frames occur after the invincibility frames, but soul throw’s active frames would probably last long enough to catch a person’s backdash by the time it enters the “airborne phase”.

With this in mind, one should consider a move that** isn’t **fast enough to come out during an opponents’ “invincibility phase”, but also has enough reach so you’re more likely to hit them. Another thing to consider is a move’s active frames, but that’s probably not as important as speed and range.

While there are a few moves that might be good candidates to consider for option selecting, it all rests on what is possible to option select.

There could very well come a time where any Rose player is going to need to learn and apply option selects because other players know they need to be scared of her, but even if that ever happens, that player will probably also be aware of Rose option selects and just depend on blocking and dragon punches to get them through.

EDIT IN: So I did some testing awhile ago, and both s.HK and spiral can be option selected

Why I tested s.HK is because it’s a variable normal based on the distance the opponent is from you. if you OS and hit close, you have a combo opportunity. if you OS and hit far, well you still hit them. I only tested this and LK spiral on Sagat because he has a short backdash and is tall. So a good start for rOSe (lololol)

I imagine you can option select anything, so it’s just a matter of getting the other player to fear you…


#17

Just as a bump to this thread, here was my research on Soul Throw catching backdashes a while ago. Some data may be incomplete but overall it gives you a general gist of when and where an o-s with a subordinate Soul Throw could be effective.

Soul Throw on Backdash: Yes/No/Difficulty (Assume LPST unless otherwise stated)

[details=Spoiler]Fei: Corner Medium
Cammy: Corner Easy
Akuma: Corner, Easy
Gouken: Corner Easy, Midscreen Medium with HP
Dhalsim: Corner Easy, Midscreen Medium with HP
Blanka: Immune/Too precise to be worth it
Chun: Corner Medium
Ryu: Corner Hard
Honda: Corner Easy
Zangief: Corner Easy, Midscreen Easy/Medium w/HP
Guile: Corner Easy
Ken: Immune
Seth: Corner Easy
Dic: Corner Med-Hard
Sagat: Easy Everywhere, slightly later than middle of his bDash (HP midscreen)
Claw: Corner Easy
Boxer: Corner Easy
Abel: Corner Easy, Midscreen Mod/Hard with HP
Viper: Corner Medium
Rufus: Corner Easy, Midscreen Medium with HP
Fuerte: Immune/Too precise to be worth it
Sakura: Corner Easy
Rose: Corner Easy-Medium
Dan: Immune
Gen: Corner Medium (later than you would expect)[/details]

From what I remember, I considered anybody listed Easy or Medium as something you could try for reasonably if you knew there was a backdash coming. Clearly this is only effective in the corner on most characters and you still face the difficulty of getting someone to backdash against Rose’s offensive tools when you would want them to.

If you wanted to try an o-s with Soul Throw the simplest application would be something like jHP (ST) cLP following a knockdown:

Dominate: jHP
Subordinate if Dominate hits/is blocked: cLP
Subordinate if Dominate whiffs: Soul Throw

But it’s a risky maneuver if your opponent has anything that would force the Dominate to whiff and beat the Soul Throw. For example, most Ultras. Perhaps another possibility would be cLK (ST) cLK:

Dominate: cLK
Subordinate if Dominate hits/is blocked: cLK
Subordinate if Dominate whiffs: Soul Throw

But again, any o-s with Soul Throw is going to have a limited utility. You could try things like regular Throw o-s Soul Throw to catch someone jumping out of your throw setup but they are all going to be very specific in their usage if they do prove to be useful at all.


#18

The problem I have with Soul Throw OS is that a sweep is safer and covers most of the bases the OS sweep does, does it not?

I dont know anything about Os’s, but using other OS’s as an example. Now EX Spiral isn’t the safest move. A Lot of moves will beat out Ex Spiral. But against characters without a SRK style move, the invincibility frames of the EX Spiral will beat out normals and throw attempts. Back dashes will fail, and jump attempts will fail. Wake up Ultra will beat this.

What are the inputs for the sweep OS?


#19

It’s armour breaking, so yes.


#20

I dont think this was talked about yet, but I find it a pretty safe option to use j. HP c. HP, M soul reflect(for range)… If this attack is blocked it puts you at a decent range so they cant retaliate as they would be able to if you used soul spiral, also with a full super meter if this connects you can add on the super if you time it right… not so safe on characters w/ dragon punches etc… in the corner you can add a soul throw, or ultra 2 at the end… another slightly bold option to tack on the end of a blocked chain would be to slide in w/ mk let rose walk forward for a split second and grab