Rose USF4 change list discussion

rose

#1

UPDATE
Final changes for USF4

Rose
[list]
[] Forward Dash total frames reduced by 1 frame (21F → 20F)
[
] Close Standing MK hitbox slightly expanded downward
[] Crouching LP damage increased by 10 (20 → 30)
[
] Crouching LK damage increased by 10 (30 → 40)
[] Crouching MP damage increased by 10 (60 → 70)
[
] L Soul Spiral forward movement distance slightly increased
[] L, M and H Soul Spiral damage increased by 10 (100 → 110)
[
] EX Soul Spiral damage increased by 10 (120 → 130); stun increased by 100 (100 → 200); invincibility time increased by 2 frames (11F → 13F); throw invincibility removed
[] L, M, H and EX Soul Spiral can now be used in air combos
[
] M Soul Spark start-up reduced by 2 frames (22F → 20F)
[] H Soul Spark start-up reduced by 2 frames (29F → 27F)
[
] Illusion Spark (UC1) start-up reduced by 2 frames (12F → 10F)
[*] Soul Satellite (UC1) command input changed from 214214+PPP to 214214+KKK; recovery increased by 2 frames (2F → 4F)
[/list]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxl40awMTN4

Old post:

Changes taken from http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2013/nov/21/e-honda-has-invincible-command-throw-sagat-u1-connects-fully-corner-and-more-reports-usf4-changes-coming-first-japan-loc-test/?page=4#c585553 at 22 November 2013.

[list]
[] Ultra 2 command changed to 3x Kick instead of Punch.
[
] All Soul Spiral (drills) do 10 more damage.
[] Light Kick Soul Spiral range increased.
[
] Crouching Light Punch +10 damage, now does 30.
[] Crouching Light Kick +10 damage, now does 40.
[
] Crouching Medium Punch +10 damage, now does 70.
[] EX Soul Spiral does 200 stun, has 13 invincible frames and is throw invincible.
[
] Medium Soul Spark is now 20 frames startup (from 22f), heavy soul spark 27 frame startup (from 29f).
[] Ultra Combo 1 is now 10 frames startup (from 12f).
[
] Rose’s Dash is now 20 frames.
[/list]


Un-official changes to Rose in Ultra
#2

These are buffs all around! Too bad we have to wait so long to get these, because I would really start to own everybody right now. She has a buff in the delayed wake-up already, and now she actually gets what a lot of people here have been asking:

  • a consistent meterless BNB (c.lp,c.lk,c.mp xx lk drill)
  • a true reversal (ex drill invincible)

furthermore some nice to haves such as:

  • easier U2 input that does not get confused with EX reflect
  • better damage on her standard bnb’s
  • easier to combo into U1 (dash is 1 frame less, and U1 starts up 1 frame faster which makes ex SS FADC into U1 a 4-framer)

I’m not sure if faster startup on soul sparks will make more combos possible


#3

translating the numbers to her known combos:

cr.lp, cr.lk, cr.mp xx lk drill
old 20, 30, 60, 100 = 20 + 30 + 48 + 70 = 168
new 30, 40, 70, 110 = 30 + 40 + 56 + 77 = 203

**cr.lp, cr.lp, cr.lk, cr.mp xx ex drill
**20, 20, 30, 60, 120 = 20 + 20 + 24 + 42 + 72 = 178
30, 30, 40, 70, 130 = 30 + 30 + 32 + 49 + 78 = 219

**cl.mk, cr.mp xx lk drill
**70, 60, 100 = 70 + 60 + 80 = 210
70, 70, 110 = 70 + 70 + 88 = 228

This means she starts to do some damage now. And her standard cr.hp xx drill punish should be replaced by cl.mk, cr.mp, lk drill for maximum damage.


#4

#5

We shall rise and become a rose army!!!


#6

Yeah, considering they dropped Cammy to bottom tier, guess my transition to Rose is complete. Was hoping for a buff to FA range, but this is still great. Elena sounds like a fun secondary too and Adon didn’t get nerfed much. And of course Dan4lyfe, though I’ll be sad midscreen lk danku crossups are probably gone, his pressure should be more consistent now.

Also just occurred to me the dash buff means +1 more frame advantage on FADC! I think it was +5 in the past from a soul spark (cr. hp link always felt like 1f), so that’ll be nice to make that link easier. Curious if the 2f reduction on HP spark makes it comboable from a CH cr. hp or cl. hk, but I think doing the math it still falls a frame or two short of comboing.


#7

Loving the changes. She’s not Op but yet some good buffs.

U1 should snag more people now where as before was always a that frame or 2 shy of connecting. With that i think she will be better off with either u1 or u2 in specific match ups. Cause a faster u1 can scare more players now from jump ins.

But looking at other chars buffs and nerfs rose should be better off as she is with those match ups.

So the dash at 20 frames is front dash only? will this help with a FDAC thru FBs to hits?


#8

Probably not, Rose’s overall dash frames are still quite high compared to most characters. It’s the solid range that makes it useful.


#9

ya figured as much, still a great dash in grab tho.


#10

I’m so happy they increased her damage! And they fixed the input for ultra 2. No more ex reflect or ex soul throw! :slight_smile: I’m so happy~


#11

The changes are fantastic for Rose! Can’t wait


#12

I’ve said this from the start: never 100% trust eventhubs.

http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/3203/p8ki.png


#13

absolutely unnecessary.


#14

unnecessary of course, but still a disappointment :slight_smile:


#15

Excerpt from loketest feedback done by Kim1234 at https://docs.google.com/document/d/13-_hmPPDltYjolbgFIQmjl6_HH1LBPt0S8qXh3rZ3fk :

This is apparently the sources that EX Spiral is throwable. I wonder if this is:

a) a new property to make it less strong, aligning it with for example reversals such as EX CoD
b) a forgotten property of the old version, so throw invincibility ends at eg frame 11 iso 13, while only strike invincibility ends at 13
c) didnt change the old framedata fopr throwboxes on purpose

If case b we could try and be vocal about it so they fix it before release


#16

that’d be c, i guess : ex spiral has always been throwable on wake-up. i think that for usf4 they just changed the frames of the hit-invincibility, but didn’t touch the frames of the throw-invincibility. i think it’s fair because it’s not an aerial attack so there’s no reason it shouldn’t be throwable.


#17
  • Any change to cr.hp as an anti-air? Currently loses to most high priority jumpins such as Sakura j.hp. Will donate!
    kim: cr. HP wins 100% of the time. All hail rose!

I want to know about this. It could work now because that move was nerfed but what about other moves?


#18

this is only because sakura’s j.hp was nerfed : her hurtbox was increased. no change whatsoever was made to rose’s c.hp (to our current knowledge).


#19

Keshikaran did say that Rose’s cr.HP felt “better”. Also about the far st.MP test he said that he was wrong and that he was using cl.MP. Anyways the list of her buffs is:

  • Soul Satellite is now 3x Kick
  • All Soul Spiral now does 110 damage (up from 100 damage)
  • EX Spiral now does 130 damage / 200 stun. Strike and fireball invincible. Throwable
  • Cr.LP now does 30 (up from 20)
  • Cr.LK now does 40 (up from 40)
  • Cr.MP now does 70 (up from 60)
  • MP Soul Spark starts at 20F (use to be 22F)
  • HP Soul Spark starts at 27F (use to be 29F)
  • Soul Illusion starts at 10F (use to be 12F)
  • Rose forward dash is now 20F total
  • Cl.MK hitbox buff downward

SPECULATIONS:

  • Keshikaran: “feels like cr.HP is better” (better hitbox ?)

She got some ok buffs. But she is still looks like the character that has to respect and stay honest and can rarely shift momentum. I still think she could use more buffs:

  • Cr.MP: blockstun/hitstun + 1
    **This will make cr.MP xx LK Spiral a true blockstring

  • Cr.HP: Hitbox slightly larger
    **So it can connect on crouching characters after a counter hit cl.MK

  • Cr.HK: Startup decreased by 1F (9F>8F). +1 Active Frame (2F>3F). Recovery down by 1F (26F>25F)
    **For a footsie character, having such a slow sweep and highly punishable isn’t really something I find fair.

  • Focus Attack: increase speed on release. +1 blockstun on level 1/2
    **Worst focus attack of the game in all aspects: Poor range/One of the worst frame advantages after dash (grapplers and dhalsim don’t count)/Has an extra 2F startup on level 2/Animation doesn’t move Rose backwards enough. It could use a little help: Increase the speed of her level 2 focus to get rid of the extra 2F. With her dash now being a total of 20F, she is now -4 on blocked level 1 focus and +2 on blocked level 2 focus. Adding 1 more blockstun on both levels of focus would make her -3/+3. Not the best frame advantage but still average on this.

  • LP Soul Spark recovery reduced by 4F
    **To be able to properly zone with her fireballs

  • EX Spiral: Remove 2F of fireball invincibility. Throw invincible
    **Her reversal is 13F. There’s absolutely no reason for it for not covering hit/fireball/throws. Also since it has no pushback, it is easily baitable and punishable.

  • Soul Reflect:
    LP+MP: Reflects fireball horizontally
    MP+HP: Reflects fireball diagonally
    LP+HP: On hit (opponent or fireball) Reflects horizontally and does a Regular Fireball
    ** Should be able to have access to both versions of Reflect when using the EX version. Also gives her the opportunity to reflect EX versions diagonally. The LP+HP version is a reminiscence from her alpha days from Aura Soul Spark level 3, where she could reflect the opponents fireball before firing her own.

  • U1: 2nd hitbox comes out 2F faster.
    **Makes her U1 really have distinctive properties compare to her U2. Having her U1 at 10F only will not really change much about the ultra. Having the 2nd hitbox appear faster really makes fireball opponent fear her when they want to throw fireballs from far away.

With these, I think she would finally be fearsome. Not top 10, neither bottom 10. I would go and say high mid tier.


#20

I don’t know why ryu should have a true block string with is fireball while we cant get one with our spirals…