Rose vs Balrog

rose

#1

This thread may be part two. Who knows. Whatever. Truth is that even after months of experience with Rose and her matchups, I still shiver when I see that the opponent selects Balrog because I’m utterly clueless and without any plan.

Offense:
You can not jump in as Balrog use either his C HP thing when close, or his headbut when further. Both with 100% success?
Slides have to be spaced pretty perfect as a Balrog player will always tend to bail out of pressure with jabs.
Drills that have bad spacing get you in jab or headbut hell.
Crossups on wakeup seem to have no use as headbutt either kills you, or gets him away from it.

Defense:
He’ll trap you with jabs that can either go to a combo (sometimes even true frametraps), or tick throws. He’ll have the option to mixup his dash punches between normal, focus breaking, low or overhead. The overhead leads into big combos (jab to headbut to ultra) so blocking low is almost suicide. Only the overhead looks punishable to me… In fact I’m pretty afraid of punishing anything of his dashes. He can also TAP, which is a strange move that sometimes wins from what looks like clean hits. I dont get this move, and it hurts when I lose from it. TAP goes to other specials too easily.

Furthermore his jumpin HK (I think) is awkward and hits really weird. His crouching HK has great range and is excellent for tripping you after a blockstring. His Ultra is almost guaranteed as he needs only one psychic head-but or reversal head-but, which pins me because I need to pressure him but doing so eventually means free Ultra for him. Even if he whiffs the damn thing, I don’t find much time to punish it, so I usually try to throw.

The only thing marginally useful for me is EX spark… as he cannot use EX punches to get though safely. Thats it. And psychic Ultra as dash punch anticipation. But good Rogs wont charge in on wakeup. They will rely on 1 jab to land and get a combo from that. Always. Guaranteed.
Thats just crazy.


#2

this is an ugly match up for Rose. easily, a 7 - 3 for Balrog (taking into account rog is good and knows the match up).

Rogs that follow a flowchart are easy (easy to focus and to stop with EX Specials), but the ones who are good with mix-ups… good luck with them.

it is possible to put pressure on them with meaty cross ups after a knock down. It is crucial being able to break their game and to not allow them to dictate the match.

also, it is very important to predict his dash punches to cath him with ultra. I think is the only way to catch him, because fireball traps - ultra dont work against Rogs that know the match up.

i think the main problem is, in order to beat a good Rog player, you have to know him and his gameflow, but unfortunately, in a 3 rounds match you dont have enough time for that.

try to stay on top of him and bait him to commit mistakes, its the best thing you can do in this horrible match up for Rose.


#3

hmm, u need to pressure him before he get EX. And get a knockdown at ALL cost.

Rog weakness are his wakeup option, u can free clk him at his wakeup, leading to ure mixup.

Rog overhead can be shut down with a throw if u react well, and other one can be FA. There’s only the smash one (hold kick one) that u should be aware of.

If the rog mash jab, u can far HK it.

This matchup is pretty hard for Rose… Rog ultra is very easy to land and it leads u to the corner => Hell. Rose cant afford a mistake imo.


#4

If he’s an intermediate player who might not know the matchup, spark baiting works well. None of his specials beat your ultra. So if you can get him to turn punch or ex through a mp or hp spark you can ultra him before he hits you. A good player will change his gameplan when you have ultra.

Your slides can beat some of his punches. It’s risky as the timing is difficult. It can be done though.

I find soul throw useless in this matchup.

Learn your drill distances and recovery. Hk drill(block), c.mp xx drill is a great trap. I like it against balrog because they wanna dash punch at that distance. Make sure the hk drill hits the tip.

Don’t be afraid to throw. I tell a lot of players this. If you feel pressured, don’t be afraid to take the throw. I get a lot of hate mail on this but if you slide too deep and he blocked it, don’t be too high and mighty to try and get the throw to bail.

Your drills can beat some punches. I think it’s situational but can be done. Distancing is the key.

I like crossing up rog. If he blocks low, after he blocks 2 of your jabs, cross him up. Stay ontop of him.

Make him headbutt when you want him to, block and punish. I like making them think Im stupid, and jab a lot while he’s knocked down, then block and punish. That works on trained players, not skilled players.


#5

hehe yeah, the jabs to bait headbutt is a silly trap that works surprisingly well.

EX SThrow is very handy when cornered to scape from pressure or to cath him when he jump in over you after a knock down (a lot of Rogs like to jump in over you when knocked down and cornered to avoid your ultra, or they bait your ultra and then jump).

as Kail said, crossing up him is crucial. the cross up has to be deep though to hit him before he hits you with headbutt. The two jabs-cross up again trap works very well with Rog (and Guile also). You can mix it up with throws if you are confident enough (beware with his nasty cr LP).

btw, Luffy, are you sure you can cr LK him for free? i have not tested that, but is sounds interesting… doesnt Headbutt hit you??


#6

nop u can recover faster, and block if u see it. Slide is an option too, if he headbutt u will slide under him without being it, and if not u can slide throw, slide poke…


#7

HMMMMMM! I must try this.

I have been trying to hit the c.lk on characters that don’t have like…DP’s or SPD’s and such…Ive had good luck with it. I cant follow up the c.lk with anything special though. Any suggestions?


#8

your nightmare should follow clk. The UBER 1 frame link :).


#9

Luffy, you owe me a new keyboard…I just got soda all over it after I spit it out from laughing. Thaaaaanks.


#10
  • As someone who gets destroyed by a really good Rog player. Do not play defensive, at least not against any competent Rogs. They will pressure you with max range jabs (still +4 on block) and do some sort of rush punch block string. I notice he’ll start with a regular rush punch see how you blocks then jab xxx overhead or sweep punch to either get a combo or knockdown. Sometimes they’ll even use I think it’s the gut punch that has quite a bit of knockback just so he can push you to the corner. If I knew how to punish rush punches I think I could make some defensive strides. But it seems like even throwing out a cr. lp after a blocked rush punch nets me a jab xxx for my troubles.

The Rog I face doesn’t do anything stupid. No sitting fullscreen away, no unsafe jumps on my wakeup, sitting at max near max range for jabs, no missing upper links or jab xxx headbutt ultra’s etc. The only effective thing I can do is go after him from the word “fight” and pray I don’t fuck up once he has ultra. I can be winning the entire round then I’ll mess up once and get jab xxx headbutt to ultra. He gets a knockdown. GG. *


#11

I say this match is more even than vs Bison because both sparks and spirals can work greatly since Balrog is so rooted to the ground.

Sparks bait headbutt, EX specials, and TAP. all of which can be hit with a well timed, and properly chosen spiral/spark mix.

If any Rog attempts full range EX Armor move through a medium or heavy spark, you don’t even necessarily need to use a spiral to knock em out at that point.

In short, make Rog work to get you much like Dhalsim vs anybody. Use all of Rose’s pokes since she definitely outranges Balrog overall. Sweep beats many charges and is less likely to trade than the other pokes.


#12
  • The thing about this is that a smart Balrog won’t ever really be far from Rose where her sparks are safe. Her fireball game isn’t that great and rog can walk up or use his quick dash to cover space pretty effectively. Once he’s pretty much within 3 quarters screen your spark can’t save you. You’re better off faking out a spark with a st. mp and then sliding to throw. With slide you’re low enough to not be hit. But even then look at the damage output of Rose compared to Rog. You miss time one sweep or slide and there goes quite a bit of health plus a knockdown. *

#13

I don’t know. Personally, if they can do that one long combo into Ultra ending with the headbutt, I feel like there’s nothing I can do.

If the Balrog is an intermediate player, they will open the match with a type of rushdown tactic that you can beat simply by going into jumping roundhouse into crouching roundhouse and score a knockdown and some damage right off the bat. That always helps me.


#14

eh that was only half of my strat. don’t want to go into too much detail of how I play against Balrog.

Also commenting on Roogle: It seems either his overhead, or his dash upper are the only things that can combo into crouching jab which combos into headbutt, so for most of the match, if Balrog is in my face, I prefer staying crouched since EX Upper will always whiff, until that point where the overhead comes out.

Balrog players have shown to be really smart about it and only use the overhead once the entire set, when it really counted. I’m not so comfortable in the match up that I haven’t learned all his tricks yet, but there’s still hope


#15

I tend to stay crouched, too. On the other hand, though, I was reading some things that were saying that it’s better to block high against Balrog on the whole. What does everyone think?


#16

The only rush that hits low is a sweep. Ok it’s a knockdown, but the overhead goes into a combo to Ultra… and is also a knockdown. Choice is quickly made then.
I guess your strat should be not to allow him this strategy, but really, how long can one avoid falling for one single 3-frame jab with + recovery and good reach?


#17

Can he combo headbutt from one jab? I mean, I assumed he can only triple jab on jump in. Of he’s that close that he can link 3 jabs, couldn’t you hve thrown him out of the punch?

Just a question

its tough. This is a match that I like to dash from jump in’s but I fail miserably. Ha.


#18
  • Yes he can combo headbutt from one jab. He can jab three times canceled into headbutt from a jump in or from the ground. And you can’t throw him out of the rush punches if they’re canceled from jabs as far as I know. Specially if his jabs hit since they’re +7 on hit and +4 on block. To put that into a better perspective for you, Rogs jab on block has the same frame advantage as Roses’ most advantageous normal move on hit. As for back dashing on jump in’s try focus cancel dashing jump ins so you can absorb the blow and get away.


#19

I heard that his head-butt is not a great reversal on wake-up, anyone that knows some tactics to exploit that? I’ve been playing him a bit and indeed his normal head-butt can be hit out of on startup it seems.

To me the easiest way to perform a special after jabs is to link a C LK after them first, but while it seems easy, I cant land it all the time. So, well, Rog players who do that consistently deserve some credit at least :wink:


#20

I use the focus attack when he does his dash punch with good success. Use your fireballs to keep him at a distance, when he jumps, use forward HK, only if he is far, down HP if close. If he has any EX bar, use your ex fireball, or if you are at full screen, throw a jab fireball, then if he uses his ex dash, immediately ultra when he dashes thru your fireball.