Rose vs Claw & Rose vs Bison help plz!

rose

#1

Hi everyone

I was wondering if anyone has an extensive knowledge of either of these match-ups

well I normally play sf4 at my local arcade and I’ve been entering local tournaments for over a year now.My main problem with Vega is my lack of experience playing this character since i only get to play Vega at tournaments.The other problem is the lack of high level rose vs Vega AE videos and the net and the lack of any sort of comprehensive match-up analysis so i was wondering if anyone can break this match up down to it’s nuts and bolts for me.

Secondly this dude at the arcade I hang out at has been playing bison since vanilla.Though i play him on a regular basis i can’t seem to beat him in casuals though i come pretty close to eliminating him in tournaments. i have read tons of match-up guides and watched over 100 matches of rose vs bison but he can still beat me like 10/0.My main problem is that bison can close distance so fast and SK pressure me all day,safe jump after every hard knock down and he knows the range where his jumping fierce can beat my crouching one so i’m forced to use meter to inflict damage with an anti-air

i know there is already a match-up guide for bison in the “let the spirits guide you” math-up thread but that can’t be all there is to it.

anyways i would really like some help with these match-ups especially bison cause the guy is a really big jerk always cursing and rambling in our casuals that rose can never beat bison.


#2

I don’t see a problem using ex for St. It is actually my number 1 go to aa option.

Advantages:

Setup u2.
Setup Safejump.
And it automatically switches position (if u are close to the corner. U get out by using ex st)

I honestly think it should be rose main aa option when having meter to spare.


#3

hey thanks for replying Olympian!

I wasn’t saying that ex soul throw is a bad option at all
what i was pointing out is that in this particular match-up good meter management
and the ability to keep the opponent grounded is what gives rose an edge against bison

Reasons:

first both rose and bison can be exploited on wake-up without meter and roses most note worthy option selects against bison involve meter.

Secondly convincing bison to play a ground came can be in your advantage since Rose does have viable counters for his pokes such as crouching Mp for his crouching light,low profiling his standing hard kick etc.

So against any good bison that knows this match up good enough relying on ex st(which can be bested by his jumping fierce) can be risky though it does give you a free safe jump and mix up.in many instances it can come back haunt you since bison builds meter allot easier than rose in this match

Quick question: do you know if ex ST can beat Bison’s PC in ambiguous cross-up situations?
The few times I tried,it failed.


#4

I’m assuming you’re talking about psycho crusher Kob. (I know this is two months old) I would just block it instead of wasting meter for ex st. It works from time to time but the risk reward isn’t worth it.


#5

Dunno if I already mentioned this. Vs claw. I Don’t even bother anti airing if i don’t have meter to ex st. His jump hp is too good.

I either fa backdash… Or slide under (none of his jump attacks will hit u).

Then u put him in this mixup throw/stmk.


#6

If you get to obvious with focus backdashing it gets predictable and can be punished on prediction and sometimes wh you try to slide under jump ins you get wiffed punished when the guy lands


#7

Not sure if you’re still looking for perspective, but…

Both these characters can kind of shut down a button-happy Rose player. I usually just let them finish their block strings and get back to a neutral situation. I’ve found that I have to block a lot in both these matches. Most of the damage I dish out comes from a knockdown I force in the neutral game. Dictators and Claws are fairly mobile and will have to do something to navigate full screen fireballs. If they get their normals out first you just have to block them, but they don’t have a ton of safe approach options really. That’s the key–THEY DONT HAVE A LOT OF SAFE APPROACH OPTIONS. Force a mistake. Knock them down. Bait reversals if they have meter. Lather, rinse, repeat.


#8

**Yea i get the whole mobility thing, I’ve actually gotten fairly comfortable in these match-ups i actually eliminated one of the best Vega’s on my island last tournament and i’m not afraid of bison anymore.before i use to lose to even day one bison.

I found these match ups difficult because both bison and Vega can take rose out of her natural habitat.since she cant completely dominate the mid range game.the main problem with Vega was his cr.mp,it just seemed to beat all my pokes (well in my opinion).I see roses pokes from Tekken point of view like st.HK and st.MK are low crushes and cr.MK , cr.HK and slide are high crushes.

So since i couldn’t crush it out, i found it hard to beat.As you set not hitting buttons and being on point with your whiff punishing helps allot in these match-ups(honestly it just comes down to solid play).Plus red focus helps so much against predictable scissors kick pressure. Bison now has to R-E-S-P-E-C-T those two bars man :slight_smile:
**


#9

I main guile and use vega as a 2nd character, I always wanted to add rose as a 3rd character even before USF4. Against vega, playing rose would be similar to playing guile, you have 2 options; play a long distance game with projectiles, or play up close. I would generally suggest playing up close against vega, vega has no good buttons up close, it is very hard for vega to link lp/lk. Rose should be able to jump in on vega for free, he has very poor AA normals, his flash kick is only decent when spending a meter. Vegas cr.mp poke is a great poke but only at far distance, up close I am sure that rose’s cr.mp is superior in terms of startup/recovery and options to combo.

Rose has a good crossup game with j.mk, it really wrecks havoc on charge characters.

When Vega is being pushed into the corner, there is not alot he can do to fight his way out, he best option is to escape using the flying barcelona or jumping off the wall. Vega will end up escaping from the corner usually, but hopefully you would have done alot of damage in exchange.

If you ever find yourself at the max range of Vega’s cr.mp or st.mk, you know you have screwed up and you need to either create more distance or close the distance.