Rose's Throws Woes

sakura

#1

I realized the other day that my worst matchup with Sakura is against Rose. I’m having trouble getting in on her.

  • Her normals seem better, period. She can keep Sakura away on the ground using safe pokes that outrange Sakura’s.

  • I’ve yet to find any jump normals that can beat or trade her neutral or j.forward HP.

  • Soul Throw seems to beat everything.

  • Forget about zoning as her superior fireballs + reflect far outclass Sakura’s range.

Anyways, I found I am pretty much only able to turtle and wait for Rose to make mistakes. I usually play against my pal who’s great with the fundamentals and he pretty much shuts me down with soul throw + her ground normals. Her c.mp > lk soul drill is safe… I really have no idea what to do. I would’ve posted this in matchups but the thread doesn’t seem organized at all.

Discuss.


#2

Rose st.hk is going to cause you the most troubles since it beats all of Sakura’s usual pokes out clean.
c.mp is your best counter poke against her, st.mp and st.hp also work well.

If Rose throws a fireball that’s a free get in for Sakura becuase Rose recovers very slowly from her fireballs, just jump over on reaction when you anticipate one or tatsu over it.

Don’t forget about air shunpu.

She’s free on wakeup as long as she doesn’t have u2, when she has u2 safejump her to force her to waste that meter.


#3

What good is air shunpu?

She has EX soul drill on wakeup, not completely free.

The jump-in vs. fireball is one of the few ways I can get in (hence, "turtling and waiting for mistakes), assuming Rose doesn’t have two ex bars. And it’s usually a mistake that’s hard to repeat (lp soul spark from mid range = punish).

What I’m really wondering is, is Sakura only viable against a Rose who makes zoning mistakes? At every point of initiation it seems like Rose has the advantage.


#4

EX Drill has 13 frames of start up, so it’s easily safe jumpable. Plus, if you block it up close (and you should be close if you’re talking about wakeup), Sakura can punish with 3-frame LK (or crouch HP) > EX Shunpu Kick > whatever.


#5

Excuse me, my terminology is lacking, what is safe jump? Jumping in so that you can guard before anything they do will connect? Did I presume incorrectly what “free” means?

I realize you can block and counter ex soul drill, even if I sound like an idiot XD, but it’s not like you can do whatever you want when she wakes up.


#6

I will admit nothing makes me say WTF more than getting a knockdown and going for a cross-up only to get Soul Throwed. I actually see my foot touching Rose and then SOUL THROW!!


#7

Yeah, safe jumping is timing a jumping attack so that it cannot be punished (so, if they do a reversal attack, you will still recover in time to block, and if they don’t do a reversal attack, your attack will connect.) Usually involves doing the jump attack as late as possible before you land.

You can do anything that would recover before her EX Drill connects, like jabs and shorts. You could do a late/meaty crouch MP -> Shunpu Kick (if she does EX drill, the Shunpu won’t come out and you’ll block in time). You can do late jumping attacks.

Also, the invincibility on her EX Drill actually finishes BEFORE the move hits you. According to the frame data, the first 11 frames are invincible. The 12th frame is vulnerable. Then on the 13th frame it hits you. So, you can actually mash crouch jab and stuff EX Drill with the right timing.

It’s like a DP. She CAN do it on wakeup, and she CAN stop a lot of options, but if it’s blocked or baited, Rose can get punished hard. So, she’s not going to use it ALL the time, just like Ryu doesn’t always DP on wakeup.


#8

Indeed. Thanks for the answers. I just played her again the other evening, I’m definitely being way too impatient. Guess I just need to practice.


#9

i feel Rose is completely free on wakeup against sakura now. i was playing my friend’s rose last night and everytime i got a knockdown i would do a light shunpukyaku and he would wake up with an EX soul spiral and Sakura would hit her everytime. you may have to work on the timing but i pretty much shut down Rose’s wakeup game for the rest of the night. ill try and put some videos up if i can.


#10

Rose lp spark has the longest recovery. The mp, hp and ex have shorter and she can activate ultra if you try to jump those. U1 or U2 you will take damage. If its U2 she will tac on soul throw for good measure.

She can slide under air shunpu or ST that.

She is only free on wake up if you do stuff meaty.
Also look out for her cl.s.mk. It cannot be thrown and it is special move cancelable.


#11

im pretty sure he didnt mean air shinpu and meant that it just goes through/over fireballs even on the ground and is a great way for sakura to get in on rose…and is probably the best way to get in on rose for sak. i think you can do it safely on her light and med sspark, even fierce you can probably get in and still block at least, though i wouldnt risk it since rose could ex drill in time after a heavy sspark and most likely catch you. of course neutral jump ex sparks, wouldnt even try it there.

walk forward and spam st. short, intelligently, when she isn’t pressuring with sparks or drills. and cr. strong works well against rose’s pokes from what ive seen. just watch for st. hk. you can also otoshi bad sparks to get a knockdown where rose has little options. bait out ex drill, or her u2 if she is using it, and keep mixing it up. rose only has about 4 options, ex drill, soul throw a bad jump, throw, or block so they will mess something up eventually if your mix up is good.

ive actually never played against a rose, but rose is my main, sakura is my 2nd so hopefully this is useful. all i know is sometimes i can walk in and stuff a lot of other peoples garbage with sak’s st short so i only assume it would be effective here too. i dont think her far mk is that bad either, but i dont know vs rose.


#12

It’s not that easy against rose as I main her trust me jumping over only happens with bad rose players who don’t know their spacing…


#13

I think its really cool that so many of us in this thread main Saks and Rose. ShogunFlow uses her too.


#14

Yeaaah, I mained Rose in vanilla… thus have 0 Rose vs. Sak experience (I can count the number of vanilla sakura I played on one hand.)


#15

agreed