I like to think I can be a good Ryu at times, my mind games arn’t the WORST but certainly they can be “leveled up”. I know how to safe jump, I know MOST of what I can do them against however I don’t really look/care about frame data. Perhaps I am limiting myself but I would rather just learn first hand.
Current combos/ set ups I use frequently.
( Assuming I hit )
cjab, cjab, throw ( jump in )
cjab, cjab, crh ( jump in )
cmp, cmp, crh ( jump in )
clk, cjab, cFierce, tatsu ( jump in/ stuffed combo string )
cmp, cfierce, tatsu ( jump in )
SP, Shoryu, FADC, u1 ( Punish )
SP, cjab, cjab, rh ( Corner Pressure )
(Block strings) PS. I only use one, because i am dumb T_T
cjab, mp, fhado ( I only try to use this to see if they are trying to tech/block )
( Counter hit set ups )
Any ideas would be nice, i don’t know exactly if I already use them but who knows o.o
The idea of this thread is to see if you guys can give me some ideas for what to work into my game at this point. I am a pretty solid Ryu, I am going to Evo next week I am just doing some final touch ups before I head out!
About counter hit setups. Many people suggest using clp --> cmp or cmp --> cmp, but frankly I find that bad. This is because it only gives a 1 frame leniency to actually counter hit the other person. So, unless they are mashing to the point where their controller starts breaking, you won’t get it. Instead, I recommend you start using his crouching shorts. For example, clk x3, cmk, or clk cmp. You can also delay and walk back if you predict that they are mashing crouching tech and simply sweep them. Work on the Yang and Fei Long matchup. Air has personally said himself that both fo them are 7:3 matchups and are very difficult for ryu. If possible, I’d recommend you counter pick just to pass by the matchup.
I find for safe jump if my opponent is simply blocking all of them I will walk a little bit and go for a grab or c.lk frame trap. I can adjust my c.lk frame trap timing depending on how fast they are mashing crouch tech.
Lot of opponent block the safe jump and press c.lk+c.lp at the same time so they get an option throw in case I was going for an emptyjump or If I miss my safe jump timing. Againt those I will safe jump and go for a very fast c.lk. It can obviously be block but their timing has to be good.
For c.mp , c.mp It can be done slower to leave a bigger gap. The challenge is hit confirming if the first c.mp hit but doing the second slower than combo timing in case its blocked. When I look at Tokido match he seem very good at throwing a lot of c.mp at different timing and confirming on hit.
I think its the big challenge with Ryu finding set up and mix up to open guard. Still my weakest part of my game.
Oh, forgot about the delayed cmp trick. To really setup a strong game, what you need to do is introduce components of fear before actually applying the mixup. For example, your opponent just blocks your every attack. Go for a tick throw then. Now he’s mashing jabs to keep you from throwing him. Now, you should simply attack him and back off, watching him whiff his attacks so that you can instantly punish him afterwards or by punishing him with a frame trap. Now, here’s the part, the crucial part. He doesn’t know what to do now. If he tries blocking, he’ll get grabbed, but if he tries mashing, he’ll get frame trapped or he’ll get punished for his whiffs. That’s when you incorporate both of these tactics at once. If your opponent only blocks and never thinks further, just grab and grab him. That’ll beat 90% of online people for example. Until he adapts, continue with your original strategy. That’s how you can truly be successful with ryu.
I don’t want to disrespect you, but this post is meant only for the very beginner opponents. Good players aren’t mashing jabs to get out of being thrown, etc…
I find the best way to break down defenses, is to look at it character by character. For instance, against an opponent without a DP, say Cody (without EX), the best following an untechable knock down would probably be safe jumping attack, quick delay, into cr.MP+LK+LP string. etc… Frame traps are 99% the best because you are fishing for cr.tech and can get another untech knockdown if you hit, or bigger damage depending on meter, etc. Most good players are always teching during the first portion of a string, and not mashing, rather late teching, etc… Going for a frame trap after 3 or 4 chained cr.LK is probably not the best idea; for instance cr.LK is -1 on block and cr.MK has a startup of 5, so its a 6 frame space (if you time it perfectly) - you might get counter hit trying this at that late in the string.
cr.MP is a great poke, and you don’t have to press it that fast after the first blocked one. You can delay it. It is +2 on block which is why it’s generally better than cr.LK. The frame advantage gives you a lot more options timing wise to search for that counter hit you can walk forward ever so slightly after it, etc… Also with a startup of 4 it’s very fast.
You do know that in the situation where the frame trap leniency is at a higher number of frames, you will get frame trapped the moment you push buttons (regardless of mashing on them or not). That’s essentially how pros take damage against one another when they are in close range. Even with delayed crouching tech, there’s no sure way of beating both frame traps and grabs at once. Good players do not simply go for crouching tech during the first portion of the string. If they are against someone good, it only takes a second try for the opponent to frame trap you right from the start (I’ve had it done to me by a very good player). You really have to look at when they frame trap you. That’s when you can’t exactly push buttons at all (unless you have insane timing). The goal of my post was mainly to show how conditioning works in street fighter. It’s very important you make your opponents actually fear the possibility of a grab BEFORE going for a frame trap, because frankly, if he doesn’t understand the fundamentals of the game well, he will not hit buttons until he is thrown enough. If you time your attacks right, you can still get pro people to whiff their attacks - that’s when you obviously punish them. Cr. MP is a great poke. It’s one of ryu’s best pokes. However, you are going to have a player backdash on you if you keep delaying it constantly unless you OS sweep (and possibly dp…which can be common even if you are going into a tournament if they notice you going for it frequently enough). I simply prefer jabs into frame traps because you cannot dp out of them and simply because they are quick and reliable. That’s why Daigo absolutely loved the clk x3 into cmk. The only way you are going to get counter hit is if they can apparently time their jabs out fast enough. It is usually very reliable (especially against rufus and his annoying ex-messiah as well know). It’s really hard to delay the Cmp to a certain timing because if you simply combo into it, it only gives a 1 frame leniency. If you delay it too much, you may get counter hit yourself, etc. I personally love the cmp into clp / clp into cmp. Please note that I am not attempting to prove that you are wrong, however it just seems as though we have some different preferences. I just don’t like cmp xxx cmp mainly because it is difficult to control the number of delayed frames for that, in comparison to clk x3 into cmk.
All good players tech throws. It’s the timing of the tech that needs to be conditioned or taken advantage of. Anytime your opponent is blocking, you are looking for a frametrap or to throw them (i’m sure there are some other things, but that is the general case). That is really the only two options during a blocked attack. I guess yun/yang/rufus look to counter techs with dive kicks…
Opponents have already been conditioned to tech throws. This came from the 1000’s of matches they played before you are playing them. If they don’t have the simple fundamentals to tech a throw, then they probably arent very good to begin with. There is no point in writing an attack strategy for an opponent that can’t tech a throw. Just throw them.
BTW, in your previous post you were talking about mashing jab to counter a throw. Mashed jab is not a great counter to a throw. Actually if you opponent mashes jab, you can just tick throw them all day long.
cr.LP and cr.MP both have exactly the same frame advantage on block and hit. So, frame trapping has pretty much the same properties (cr.LP starts up a frame faster). You cannot use a chain to frame trap because the opponent cannot attack between a chained move anyways. This has nothing to do with why daigo sometimes used cr.LK x 3 into cr.MK.
You CAN DP a jab frame trap. You can DP pretty much any frame trap in the game depending on range. Which is why there is so much love/hate for mashing :).
cr.MP combos into almost all of ryu’s best stuff. It is +5 on hit which makes it the best (or tied) out of all his normal attacks. You can’t get a better frame advantage off any of his other normals. If the one frame leniency in a combo is hard for you, then ryu is not going to be a good fit for your playstyle.
cr.LK does NOT combo into cr.MK. The only normal that cr.LK combos into is a chained cr.LP. This is the best thing about it, because it hits low can be chained and hit confirmed into bigger damage. It has the same startup, less active, same overall time as cr.MP, but lacks the frame advantage meaning its best purpose is to fish for someone one not blocking high after a safe jump. Once people started learning how to cr.tech more efficiently, cr.LK after jump ins has become less effective.
cr.MP, cr.LP ?? cr.MP into cr.LP has absolutely no advantage. The one extra frame for half the damage and stun, not to mention loss of range is not a good idea. cr.MP, cr.MP is better all around. cr.LP, cr.MP is not so bad, but if you get a hit confirm off of cr.LPs then it’s better to use cr.HP because it is one of the best things about ryu. 4 frame start up that forces stand (hits crouching opponents depending on range).
IWith cr.LK, cr.MK you have a minimum of 6 frame gap. So you have no control at all. Basically you have a huge gap frame trap. It’s not hard to control because you can’t control it anyways. Your only option after a cr.MK is a special because it cannot combo into any normals. The only thing that this might be good for is cr.MK x EX FB searching for a U1 hit in the corner. Maybe a cancel after FB if you have 2 EX bars. Also you have no chance of follow up because the opponent has now been pushed away. You are at frame disadvantage, -3 on block or 0 on hit. From a pressure standpoint this is terrible.
Long story short, it would be nice if someone with decent knowledge of the game made a character specific attack thread.
Although you are going to have most, if not all people OS tech (assuming that they are people who actually know how to play the game), there isn’t a sure way of beating frame traps and throws. If you time it wrong, you’ll eat a massive counter hit combo. There’s also the possibility that they’ll notice and they will attempt to delay frame trap you in order to beat out your delayed crouching tech. How would you deal with crouching teching against a good player who can mixups his frame traps easily? By the way, I was referring to nooby opponents who haven’t gotten much experience in the game. It’s very easy to intimidate them by grabbing 3 times, and waiting for a whiff at wakeup to punish. You can still get a counter hit from cr. LP --> cr. MP because you have a 2 frame gap (although it is going to be difficult to get that because of the low frame leniency). Frame traps do not have to combo into each other to work. Clk x 3 is a true block string (even though the last hit is going to leave you negative on block). If a player notices that someone is dping through that, they can just leave a delay and push a dp that comes out right after. The frame leniency I was referring to about the cmp into cmp is that you only really have a gap of 1/2 frames (aka a space where an opponent can push buttons and then get counter hit) for it to be successful. That gap is ridiculously small. It’s not likely that we are going to have a player randomly hit dp when they are in a frame trap with a frame gap of 6. That’s more likely to catch delayed crouching techers. Also, sometimes you would want a frame trap to push the opponent away. With 2 bars, you can FADC into sweep and then go for a jump setup right after. With 3, you can do ex fireball and FADC into ultra.