Ryu frame trap.

ryu

#1

Hi,

I would like to discuss about Ryu frame trap. This is a general topic that I hope will bring efficient way to create and take advantage of frame trap.
This is an advanced topic.
So basically, I have trouble with frame trap. I m looking forward to have some good information if any Ryu player is lending successfully them.

My basic scenario is the following. sweep or throw then.

you can :

throw as soon as opponent wake up
delay throw
cr lk, throw
cr lk, cr lp, throw
cr lk, cr lp, cr mp for a 3 hit combo on guard or hit and confirm
cr mp, cr mp
cr mp , throw
cr mp, st hk
st hk
st hp hado

so this is the option I use as a Ryu.
My problem is that : throw get tech, pressure get guard. I feel like I m successfully making damage with this kind of pressure one time every 5 attempt.

if I delay a cr mp after a cr mp or a cr lk cr lp pressure, i just get hit by a cr lk or get throw by my opponent mashing tech throw or back throw…

Do people have any advice, is it really all a timing matter for frame trap?

goal is to being able to make damage at least 50% of the time with pressure. so that I can feel that it s a guessing game.

Thanks


#2

So nobody want to speak about frame trap or have any advice on making it consistently?

is the easy path( cr.lp into ex tatsu or cl.lp into srk) the only one with ryu to punish tech throw and back throw>
it s meter consuming…

this is the part where a good ryu become a real ryu. NO ONE?


#3

There are no surefire ways to land frames traps, but there are ways to improve the chance of success in reading the opponent correctly. My logic on the topic is as follows:

Every player varies which options they choose defensively from time to time so reads for frame traps are easiest/safest to apply on people that don’t take many risks. For the opponents that tend to make higher risks like mashing reversals you should take less risks when in close quarters, use only the tighter setups or try using baits, high risk doesn’t pay off in the long run if you plan your attack.

  • You must watch the opponent and look for their patterns/logic/playstyle when in close quarters situations. Generally when facing an opponent for the first time I would test them using safe options like a frame trap after a blocked jumpin/meaty setup on wakeup with a very small gap or simply making them block a normal and sit there blocking to see what they do, what button they press, then the next time that same situation arises I would try to apply the correct frame trap to punish the button they used last time and go from there.

  • Depending on what happens from that situation you can adapt accordingly.

  • If they tend to block until you’re out of range and the frame traps aren’t successful try either delaying the frame trap (widening the gap) or start doing tic throws.

  • If the frame trap hits then confirm the combo, continue and win.

  • As long as you watch and read into what you’re opponent does then you should be able to counter it successfully, that is if you know what the counter is. If you have analysed your opponent and know what he’s doing in set situations but still can’t beat it then maybe you’re not using the right frame trap to beat it, in which case just reply with it and i’ll try my best to help you find it.

The only hard counter to this theory is if an opponent was completely unpredictable/random, which i’d almost find impossible, street fighter is a game you get good at by making informed decisions on what works and what doesn’t. If a player is completely random then they wouldn’t understand that playing unpredictably won’t get them many wins, hence most people with this playstyle don’t have much skill.

check that link under the frame traps section, i did a breakdown of the frame gap size from commonly used normals at close range, start off with the smaller gap ones, if they don’t work go for the bigger ones.


#4

If they are mashing tech you can just uppercut! but only if ur expecting it for example:
you’ve been throwing him alot on wake up and he doesnt have a good invincible frames uppercut hes probably mashing tech… you can uppercut him or stand just inside of his c.lk range so after you block one c.lk you are too far for the next c.lk and u can do a EX Hurricane to counter hit him…


#5

problem is that your solution involve having or spending meter.

but yes i know that ex tatsu and shoryu are good for people teching throw.

I was more looking to see if any good ryu have success with frame trap. especially the one involvving cr mp or cr lp as they can lead to a sweep and a new pressure game.

auto block is soooooo long in this game. i m sure that frame trap windows is like 1 or 2 frame in this game.

let s take an exemple with ryu doing cr lp then a frame trap with cr mp.

after cr lp ryu is + 2

if you follow with cr mp you will beat a cr lp for sur( 1 frame before)
I never saw a cr mp trade with a cr lk. meaning that if opponment press the buton during the frame 2 of the ryu cr punch auto block is active.

so basically for a frame trape they must press on frame 3 or 4 of the cr mp.
that why is so difficult. you have max 2 frame . but you shoudl have 3…

trying hard to work on this this week but it s just really hard to figure how doing good frame trap for me.

if thay is any good ryu with timing or technical advise, thanks

thanks tks for the post. My problem is that even if i know what my opponent is doing i can t do successfully frame trap.

tried even in training . recording small different frame trap and variation with throw. it s still not very sucessfull as i manage to guard or tech like 80 % of the time or counter with cr lk.

thanks for the link. having big gap is dangerous short gap seems useless. that just difficult.

to give you an exemple. if i do cr lp than cr mp. it s a 3 frame gap. 95% of the time people will guard. If i do cr lk then cr mp it s a 4 frame gape. 95% of the time people will counter me with cr lk… that just crazy…


#6

on that last example. if you were to cr.lp cr.mp me i would never attempt crouch teching or teching for the very reason that it blows it up so hard. If you do it and it does catch them then they are just mashing crouch tech, which is dumb. Most people won’t crouch tech that string or distance unless you make them scared of grabs, need tic throw conditioning.


#7

ok, let me give an exemple.

just as you said, if i do cr lp to cr mp. most time ( 99%) it will be guarded.
if I do cr Lk into cr mp, 50% of the time it will be interupt by the cr lk ir the back throw of my opponment, 40 % of the time it will be guarded en 10% it will actually work.

My feeling is that whatever frame trap I use, generally if it s not safe, it will be either guarded or countered by a cr lk or a back throw. and it will actually work as a frame trap less than 20% of the time.

It s just super frustrating. tell me tdksparda( easy pseudo…) do you have more than 20% of your frame trap attempts turning to be successful?


#8

As i said there is no guarantee with frame traps, even if someone does beat you out with cr.lk most of the time, the one time you actually go for a frame trap to beat it they might not do what you think they’ll do, it’s all educated guesses.

Depending on the opponent, if they’re a noob theres a high chance of frame trapping, vs someone who knows what they’re doing getting above 20% might be unachievable, if you don’t hit them with the frame trap it can always lead to other ways to land damage though. Frame traps are only one tool to land damage.


#9

Counter-hit trapping is something that you get from observing people’s habits.

When it comes to beating crouch tech, the Japanese call it “gruppe tsuboshi” (basically “throw tech crushing”). Daigo once claimed that he is the best in the world at beating crouch tech, and one of his personal goals this year was to learn everyone’s teching habits in order to build a successful anti crouch tech strategy against them. That should be enough to convince anyone that with Ryu, counter-hit trapping is based on your opponent’s habits, not hard rules.

For that, you need to observe when they tech (eg. do they prefer a 4f crouch tech, or 3f jabs etc), how they tech (eg. standing, crouching, OS tech with cr.mp etc), and what timing they use (fast, slow) etc.

I find that the best time to go for a counter-hit trap is after getting them to block a jumpin (especially a x-up), because you can control how much frame advantage you have by hitting it high or low. One technique I use is to hit high up for slightly less frame advantage, then following up with st.hp (or cr.hp) xx fireball. I do this because if they tech late, I get a counter-hit. If they do it slightly faster, I get a trade which I OS with Ultra 1:

That won’t work against people who mash stand tech, but in that situation you hit the jump-in deeper, and go for the cr.lk instead. When I’m facing someone that techs really late, I follow up the j.mk with close st.hk instead. On counter-hit (good stun damage) and trade you can combo into sweep.

Neat trick: If you hit a deep j.mk x-up and combo into close st.hk, it becomes a mid-combo meaty and will combo into sweep even though there’s no counter-hit.

In a pressure situation, stuff like cr.lk, cr.mp work well against certain chars because of the nature of their hitboxes. If you can perform the trade OS easily, the cr.lp followed by delayed st.hp is also really good and will make them think twice about teching. Again, st.hk is also good because it combos into sweep on counter-hit (or even on regular hit against crouchers) and it’s very easy to combo off the trade.

Against characters that have slow crouch techs (5f), you can abuse SPS after a safe-jump (only if the opponent utilizes delayed teching). Most of the time you’ll get the counter-hit, and on a trade you can combo into what ever (I usually mash sweep and if I confirm a regular hit, I DP instead).

It’s also important to note the frame advantage after things like blocked level 2 (it’s +4f, so st.hp will score counter-hits against mashers), and things like fireball FADC. I get a lot of mileage from Ryu’s close st.hp. If I have another counter-hit heavy match I’ll post it so you can see the techniques I use.


#10

Oh another trick I like is against characters who have trouble punishing Ryu’s blocked sweep. I’ll poke with jab, short etc then follow-up with cr.hk.

What happens:

  • if they press buttons they get swept (note this is a counter-hit so the safe jump follow up doesn’t work) <- this is basically the “frame trap”
  • they try to counter-sweep and it whiffs, so you get a free sweep
  • they know they can’t sweep so they try to throw safe projectile, you confirm and Ultra them. You get a free tatsu if you trade.
  • if they try to walk up focus to bait a poke you can Ultra or SPS them.

Maeda Taison uses the same strat with Boxer.


#11

I know its an old thread, but…
I like to progress my frame traps as the match goes along.
I’ll start out with an srk bait, then move on to cr jab cr fiercexxhado afterwards I’ll move on to cr jab walk up cr jab, the second to last one is cr jab walk up cr fiercexxhado and finally, I’ll just bully with walk up cl lk (counter hit fishing) cr jab…

It would look like this in a match, jump attack, cr jab, block if nothing cr jab cr fierce hado. next time
i’m in cr jab distance: cr jab, walk up cr jab walk up cr fiercexx hado. after that if I hit a blocked cr jab, I’ll walk up and mix up between cl short and throws… I might bait once or twice if I think the opponent might use meter or ultra, but if the lead is big enough, I’ll just bully for whatever damage I can get. If no lead, I’m probably gonna bait much harder…

If I get far into my crouch tech tests early, depending on what my opponent has shown me, I might just go straight to bullying them. You use cl short like this: walk up to throw range press cl short and look for a counter hit to pop up, combo into jab if counter hit, if not cr jab is still a 3 frame trap or you get risky with your meter and fadc a shoryu. you can neutral jump to set up another frame trap situation or if you are playing a super turtle you can just kara throw. cl short does not combo out of counter hit, but since it’s +2 you can kara throw and get an instant throw on hit (throw = 3 frames/kara throw = 4 frames, on hit or block you get two frame throw invul so you can get an instant throw if +1 and an instant kara throw if +2). If you hit their block you are only negative 1 so you can play with them by walking backwards to make their tech wiff then punish with sweep and start over again. Also you can walk back and if nothing walk forward again and try a throw or another cl short.

I have a bunch of footsies loops if you guys wanna discuss. I try to mimic Daigo and be as hardcore footsies as possible. Sometimes not jumping kills me, sometimes I just jump like an ass and die. I’m not Daigo, but I learned a ton about footsies, even if I can’t execute it all…

PS. I learned this frame trap from watching A. Valle, he does this a lot if you let him…


#12

what’s actually the difference between st.hp and cr.hp? is there any advantage in using st.hp? I stopped playing for almost 2 years and am thinking about starting again…


#13

cr.hp 4 frame startup, 90 dmg
cl.hp 5 frame startup, 100dmg


#14

Hi Ranix,

I hope this video and the other ones like this on my channel display the consistency and technique you’d like to obtain.


Please let me know if this video helped.
  • KaizenMaster

#15

I don t want to sound harsh, but consistency and technique you would like to obtain???..

honestly this video is showing nothing special.

first you should os with shoryu instead of cr hp. you will maximize damage.

second stop betting with cr hp shoryu as a frame trap. if you want a 4 frame use cr.mp and confirm with a combo or a sweep.it s better that your shoryuken as it s not punishibale in guard.
also it s better than cr hp hado as a sweep will bring more oki game.

as AA use st hk instead of your cr hp. it has better range.