How can you guys optimize the Ryu meaty game,low jab seems like not work against jab mashers using st.mp you don’t have a good damage conversion and because when i get my knockdown,most of the time my axe kick is blocked and my turn is over because is 0 on block?
The meaty fireball seems to be effecient against offensive people to keep them out.
And why people use cr.lp xx St.hp as a frame trap,does not make more stun or damage?
You are a bit incoherent with your post so please articulate better next time if you’d like more analysis of your question…
c.LP on wakeup is primary used as a means to waste frames on whiff while opponent is in KDR to time other meaty buttons, mostly s.MP, c.MP, and throw which will beat any 3 frame LP or LK.
c.LP, st.HP isn’t a frame trap since there’s a 5 frame gap.
c.LP = 12 frames
s.HP = 7 frame startup, 3 active frames.
So combined this has utility against any KDR that is 19-22 frames. c.HK, h.DP, m.Tatsu, and CA are all 20 frame KDR. If it connects as a CC you can link into s.HK, CA, or DP depending on screen position, s.HK TC or CA on normal hit, and will be -1 on block. It also opens up VT activation into more damaging combos as well.
Daigo struggles against Necalli and has said it’s his worst matchup (Phenom/Haitani at Dreamhack, Haitani again at CEO) while Tokido seems to have the solution and has beaten Haitani twice in both tournaments 3-1, 3-0.
IMO it’s probably slightly favorable to Ryu because of projectiles (DG requires charge) and parry with meter being reserved for V-Reversals and CA.
Just finished watching Stunfest, Dreamhack, and CEO to compare Haitani/Tokido vs Haitani/Daigo and a few things become obvious.
Tokido has better space control than Daigo. His use of normals is more diverse, he utilizes neutral jump better, he lands more jump in punishes while avoiding jump in punishes on his FB pressure
Tokido has the better oki setups. Daigo was limited to mostly throw and c.MP which were all defended well while Tokido uses more empty safe jumps along with the normal oki
Tokido avoids Necalli’s s.HK better when trying to approach
Tokido avoids getting trapped in the corner
Tokido lands his confirms into CA at a much higher rate
Tokido has more use of parry
Tokido gets enough damage in before Necalli can pop VT such that Necalli’s speed/power advantage is minimized
Right now it’s not even close as to who is the better Ryu. Tokido has a lot more patience in neutral while Daigo seems to get frustrated and becomes predictable with dash up throw attempts and reversal DP.
it work better with st.hp since it hit even crouching attacks and thats what everyone enjoy to wake up with, you can also mix it up with dash>throw after throw, usually peoples stop hitting anything on wakeup after i get them with that, then i start mixing with throw
One thing that was interesting in the Tokido/Infiltration rematch was Tokido would follow up his blocked meaty Axe kick with a dash after noticing Infiltration was using a back dash follow up. He was basically trying to constantly pressure Nash up close and seemed to have been working in the lab to evolve tech against Infiltration’s strategy: his s.LP against the VT, the parry with s.LP timing against EX moonsault, the VT activation against Nash’s VT to time a DP, and the tatsu oki to counter nash’s weak WU options.
I agree that Tokido has a more mobile Ryu with better feel for when to close the gap through jump ins and dash ins, but he also has better use of normals. Watching Daigo reminds me of how I play where I just don’t feel comfortable in neutral with pressing buttons just to take up space. I instinctively try to use FB pressure which becomes predictable and eventually gets punished.
Anyways, Daigo is still a solid Ryu and I rank him as the #2 but he still has a ways to go to have things “click” in his head with how to deal with the new meta and matchups.
Your scenario of m.DP into dash, s.HK is a meaty that is active on the 4th frame of KD but whiffs KDR or crouching opponents so it’s not a very good option. There’s better oki setups available with dash, Axe kick to cover both KD and KDR and against KD: dash + 1f delay throw, dash + s.MP, c.MP, and even c.MK
General advice, use this tool to find your setups then test them in training mode. You really want a meaty that connects is active by the 3rd frame
For sure, that match was almost 80% - how to beat infiltration and 20% match up. No doubt the army of Online Nash players will try these things without the substance of understanding why he’s doing them.
Same with Ryu players, they are going to realise quickly that employing Tokidos tactics against run of the mill Nash players isn’t going to be fruitful.
There were obviously some learnings, parry after a KD to counter HK will obviously work since that is just a common character tendency. Also Tokido is playing at the outer limits of reactions.
I get kind of jealous watching them, where the matches have really evolved, then you jump online and it’s like playing super mario brothers lol
So I don’t know if there’s frame data floating about, but from a quick 5 minute fuck around all Rogs non EX dashes are -4 at a minimum by the looks of it and punishable unless he hits at the very tip. EX versions are safe. The EX uppercut “thing” is highly punishable on block and whiffs on crouchers. Turn punches look safe but are a little slow to start up. V-skill turn into heavy punch looks negative and punishable also.
I’ve got a feeling Rog might be some parry bait for Ryu, but I said that before the game game out. Off to test Ibuki now
Space the cr.mk xx fb so that it’s safe, or go for just the cr.mk.
If you know they’ll stand block (ie a good hard read) then just do the fb, or even sweep.
Sweep is my favourite tool against people trying to walk back and space.
I usually try sweep as well and it seems that’s the preferred tactic by Tokido and Daigo especially when they can VT cancel to make it safe. My main issue is I get too sweep happy and need to use it less when they’re in block range.
How about when an opponent backdashes? FB pressure probably isn’t the answer when they’re looking for either this or a whiffed normal to punish. Tokido’s answer was to start anticipating it and answer with a forward dash into either c.LP or c.MP. I just really suck at neutral at this game specifically because of opponents who play lame and use dashes extensively either offensively or defensively.