Ryu vs. Chun Li

ryu

#1

Because every character specific forum needs a vs Chun thread.

Use this thread to discuss strategy, technical data, and so on…just make sure whatever info you share ties back to how Ryu can beat Chun Li.

MATCH VIDEOS
unknown Ryu SAII (??/Ruu?) - terrible sound quality
20060107ranbat ??? (Namijin) SAI
SBO 3 teams frankie3s SAIII
sbo33-09 ?? (Ruu) SAII
kskranbat_frankie3s
kskranbat_frankie3s2
game41 jap 3 on 3 - Y 2 J SAI
unknown Ryu SAI (Y 2 J?) from Tokyo Ranking Fighters
FFA Ranbat 2-4 BEST BOUT Amir SAIII
[media=youtube]a4vvGeN-2rg"[/media]
[media=youtube]z611yUp2EqM"[/media]
[media=youtube]FNYDZHj6oVg"[/media]
[media=youtube]7NIolVWfx0o"[/media]
[media=youtube]nPBbGbEKv-0"[/media]

MISCELLANEOUS NOTES
**- **After a parrying Chun’s cr. forward, Ryu can attack using any move with a 5 frame startup or less. 3rd strike grants a +3 frame advantage for parrying a forward (mk), or strong (mp) attack. Executing an attack with 5 frames after a parried forward essentially makes the attack 2 frames. Chun Li’s SAII has a 3 frame start up. Therefore, Ryu’s attack will beat out Chun’s because 2 is faster than 3. This means Ryu has these options: throw, jab, close jab, short, strong, close strong, close fierce, close forward, crouching jab, cr. short, cr. strong, cr. fierce, srk, and SA.
However, Ryu’s safe options after parrying chun li’s crouching forward are much more limited. Throw, close fierce, and close forward are risky because Chun players will rarely do a cr. forward close enough for the range of those moves to come out. Standing fierce and forward will be punished by Chun’s SAII at any point she cancels into the super on reaction to Ryu’s parry. Landing a cr. fierce, cr. short, or crouching/standing/close strong depends on the distance Chun does her cr. forward from. Srks and SAs have great start up times but run the risk of improper execution, especially in such a tight window. It is safest to do a jab (which can be canceled into a SA, cr. short or srk, for example) after a parried cr. forward; or just block/tap foward for a parry while you wait out her cancel window before attacking.
While Ryu’s jump comes out in only 2 frames, it does not work because the first few frames the character is vulnerable - not considered airborn(?), cannot parry etc…
An alternative would be to UOH (strong+forward) after the parry. This causes Ryu to be airborn and take damage from the first 3 kicks but knocked back out of the way of the rest of Chun’s super, leaving her open for the combo of your choice. The other downside to this move is that UOH must be done with the forward and strong buttons. The UOH may be executed incorrectly by not pressing the two buttons virtually simultaneously and result in one of these normals coming out to be stuffed by her SAII.
**- **Chun’s SAII has a 3 frame start up, which can be parried after the super flash. Her crouching jab is 2 frames and her air throw is 6(?). Her crouching forward has 6 frame startup, 1 hit frame, 13 frame recovery, -2 blocked disadvantage, -1 hit advantage, 0 frame courching hit advantage and can be canceled at any point in its recovery.
**- **Chun has the slowest wakeup in the game with 87 frames and a tech roll of 60 frames. However, she is the only character that does not posess a standing wakeup frame.
**- **Ryu’s toward dash has a 1 frame start up, lasts 13 frames with 5 frames being recovery frames, which can be special/super canceled. His backward dash has a 3 frame startup, lasts 11 frames with 5 recovery frames. Ryu’s backward dash travels half the distance of his toward dash. Ryu’s maximum toward dash distance is at the farthest point short tatsumaki(hurricane kick) will hit Chun Li. The backward dash puts Ryu within 1 or 2 pixels away from standing/crouching jab range against Chun, but at the very edge of where crouching strong still hits her.
**- **Chun and Ryu can dash cross up; see [media=youtube]ZMJXXOe1CjE"[/media]
**- Each hit of Chun’s SAII does 1 damage when blocked, except the last kick which does 3 damage (2 damage when health gauge is below 20%) for a total of 19(18) damage, which is about as much as her throw or back+fierce
according to attack data in ps2 training mode.
**- **SAI hits 3 times on Chun from jab and strong srk xx except when she is in the corner. It hits once or twice depending on distance Chun is in corner from jab srk and always twice from strong srk.
**- **Chun’s SAII passes through Ryu’s already released projectiles
**- **standing jab, strong, fierce and roundhouse whiff against crouching Chun.
**- **Ryu can jump cross Chun up in the corner upon her wakeup after a throw (jab+short)
**- **cr. short, cr. jab(?), EX srk; and cr. short, close jab, EX srk combo against standing chun
**- **cr. short, cr. jab, cr. short; and cr. short x3 combo on Chun.
**- **Ryu is just out of Chun’s cr. forward range after she blocks his cr. short x3. He is also out of her cr. forward range after she blocks his standing fierce, standing strong, and standing roundhouse, though all of these moves whiff against her when she is crouching.
**- **standing strong xx EX hadouken combos on Chun, but the distance is extremely tight - just outside close standing strong
**- **toward + fierce has a 18 frame startup, 1 hit frame on the first hit/ 3 on the second hit, a 12 frame recovery, +2 blocked advantage, +3 hit advantage, and +5 crouching hit advantage
**- **toward + strong can stuff her EX spinning bird kick
**- after a block, she can reversal super the following moves: hadouken (also hit standing and crouching), forward (also hit standing [and crouching block?]), roundhouse (crouching block), close fierce (only standing block)
, crouching fierce (also hit standing and hit crouching
), crouching roundhouse, tatsumaki senpukyaku, or “hurricane kick”, EX hurricane kick (only standing block), srk, EX srk, joudan sokutou geri, or “joudan”, EX joudan, SA1, SAII, SAIII (after 1-3 hits), and UOH
*only 1 frame available for Chun to get reversal super and may also be strictly dependant upon distance
**- **Ryu’s cr. forward has more range than Chun’s
**- **Chun’s kara throw range is just inside Ryu and Chun’s overlapping shadows. On crouching Ryu, it is exactly where the shadows touch
**- **Ryu’s kara throw range is the point where his standing jab first hits Chun. Ryu should almost be touching the tip of her boots.
**- **Chun’s UOH xx SAII is just outside cr. forward/standing short and inside standing strong distance. Note both st. short and strong have deceptively large hitboxes. Toward + roundhouse links against crouching ryu from her cr. forward distance. Chun’s kara UOH xx SAII is slightly inside her standing fierce range.
**- **Chun’s back+ strong, close jab, jab, and forward whiff against crouching Ryu. depends on ryu’s breathing in his crouching state, strong sometimes whiffs. At this distance, Back + fierce punch will hit.
**- **Ryu can safely punish chun on her following blocked moves: kikouken (excluding fierce strength) and all 3 SAs. EX spinning bird kick can pull the opponent toward Chun, but once the opponent blocks one of its hits, he/she is pushed away. It gives Ryu an 8 frame advantage to deal with, but from the distance he is usually pushed back, even SAI is not a safe counter. Crouching forward and cr. roudhouse require strict timing and can wind up as parry bait or just a punished blocked cr. roundhouse.
**- **Hit/Blocked EX hadoken misses on second hit against crouching chun starting from slightly outside close forward/strong/fierce range and inward - does not knock her down. Chun is still pushed back by the first EX fierball, but she can counter with SAII (does not need to be a reversal).

STRATEGY
punch her face


#2

stay outside of c.mk range, but inside s.hp range. parry the s.hp and c.mkxxshinku hadoken or EX joudan into EX shoryu. if she whiffs a poke dash up and grab.

thats just what i do :smile:


#3

denijin that bitch. Dont use the weak ass setups she can get out of them. stay out of c.mk range and if you get locked down, just uoh.


#4

I start every match by walking back a mini-step – sweep that gay fp Chuns like to start with every time.

EX sho there is a gay waste of bar btw. And like she can’t c.mk you again while you’re dashing in and trying to throw.

Denjin is a big plus. Balance your EX hados with building bar for the Denjin. I say you don’t really need the denjin until she has bar – you can mix her up with no fear until she has a super.


#5

True…true…true…good advice Ghaleon.

picking denjin makes some people think you won’t ex…fuck that…if you can knock her down with an ex hado…do that shit!!! anytime she’s down is good for you…she has shit on wakeup except for bird kick really.

Most “average” chuns get scared when you are near them and will do something desperate…i. e. dumb…bait a dw. mk and see if they just super anyway…lot’s people do this with all there characters…


#6

If you’re gonna denjin her, you have to corner her first. Personally I don’t think Denjin is the best for this match and you must be conservative with your EX usage if you pick that super art.

I would suggest you walk towards her and make her pokes whiff. Punish things like whiffed standing fierces and b+fierces with low roundhouse. Don’t jump. She has too many options for you to guess correctly. Don’t base your strat. on lot of guess work. Try to be solid and safe. Just advance towards her and corner her slowly by punishing any whiffs and by throwing out random ex hadokens. Once you get her cornered, she can’t run away anymore and will be looking to jump out. This process becomes much harder when she gets sa2 since she can randomly do crouching mk to keep you away. One innovative solution(rather bold I should say) which I’ve seen Valle use back when he played 3S was to take the hit of the super on purpose so that he can freely rush that shit down. It’s sort of like SFA2 when you just take the AC on purpose to get it out of the way. Sure you take some damage but doing so will allow you to play your game out. If you think about it, when Chun has meter, people will resort to many unsafe tactics in an attempt to avoid getting hit by her super. I don’t think this tactic will work for 99% of all the Ryu players out there since it will require you giving up a huge chunk of your life. I guess if you’re skilled and aggressive enough you could pull it off. The important thing is to play extremely safe and not try risky tactics when she gets meter. DO NOT WHIFF THROWS OR GROUND ATTACKS and DO NOT LET HER BLOCK YOUR CROUCHING ROUNDHOUSE. This is what Chun Li’s do…bait an attack and punish with low mk xx sa2. It’s a gay strategy and very frustrating. Not only should you be careful of not whiffing, but be aware of false throw attempts. Example, chun li does crouching jab which has good frame adv. and deliberately pauses for a split second. Since you been thrown a couple of times, you assume she is going to try a tick-throw(the mental setup). The Chun Li player will pause just long enough for you to react so that he can stick out his crouching mk to see if you reacted incorrectly (pressed throw to tech hit, crouching jab, jumping away) which he will hit confirm and execute SA2 for lots of damage.

Here’s a trick you can sometimes use although it has some risk. Down parry her low forward and do nothing and see if Chun Li reacts to the parry. Some players super on purpose thinking that you will counter and some players will super as a mistake as a false hit confirm. Another thing to keep in mind is that when Chun Li is in crouching position, I believe she has a wider hit box than a normal character thus making her easier to kara-throw. On the other hand, Chun has the option of mashing on crouching jabs to beat throw attempts on wakeup since it has 2 frame startup while a throw has 3 frames of animation. If you know this is gonna happen, you could option low parry and combo her to repeat another wakeup situation. Knockdowns are incredibly important in this matchup since that will practically be the only time when Ryu will have the distinctive advantage.


#7

no need to corner for a denijin. You must not know about the awesome mid screen setups that does 80-90% stun. After that, any fierce hit or back throw will put them in stun or near stun. The double fierce rh tatsu stun combo does like 60 damage vs shoto and gives you back damn near half meter back. You really dont have to do much other than make sure that the denijin is going to be tricky to parry. AKA fireball midscreen denijin cancel. You can fuck with the parry timing with this so much its not even funny.

I think denijin is perfect for this match because any good chun will turtle. Shell just stay back and fierce you until she has a meter. So the 1st round and 2nd round ryu has a slight advantage. 1st round becuase she has no meter and if you rush her right, shes easy to beat. This really depends on who you are fighting and how good you are. 2nd round because you could open up with a lp fireball cancel denijin and then just poke string until you get another denijin. The stun wont go down so fast if you manage to tap them every now and then. You just want to keep tapping them so their stun stays high and build your meter at the same time. Once you have the 2nd one take your time and make sure you get into a situation that gives you the best chance to land the denijin. You should try to throw the 2nd one when the opp has no less than 30% stun. Most of the time a 3 hitter will put them in stun from the 30% stun and up. Character situation though.

Ryu is fucking cheap once you know how to like 50% stun non denijin combos. Learn what combos do the best damage \ best meter builds. Then form a game plan around the deadly combos.


#8

LOL…you wanna start the round by throwing a fireball into denjin? :rofl: sorry. Then what? You’re not gonna land a full denjin and it’s easy to get out off at that range. What if Chun reacts with her sa2 to go through your projectile? You think landing a jumping fierce, firece, rh. tatsu is going to happen very often? I think not unless you have someone pry their fingers loose from the controller while you jump in. :rofl:
Your strat. is too conditional and not very realistic. Yes, if you could land a denjin and land a jumping combo, you will stun every character in the game.

Ryu is not at an advantage even if Chun li doesn’t have a super ready. You don’t seem to understand how hard this match really is. Her pokes are far better to offset Ryu’s combo potential. Ryu cannot just rush in and win that easily. Her ground game is unmatched by any other characters in 3S. That’s a fact. By the time you do get in on her, she will most likely have a super ready which you will have to deal with. Only time where Ryu can really attack is if he knocks her down. It’s easy to talk about stunning her with Denjin but it’s hard to do on a good player and it’s unreliable. If you have denjin, you can’t punish a whiff with low forward xx sa1 which helps you in both damage and in position. The best way to use denjin is to be at point blank range and try to the release time so you can thwart their parry attempt.


#9

I disagree with everyone saying to use denjin. I’ve had nothing but bad experiences using it against Chun.

Midscreen denjin = retarded. You can’t hit some random idiot with that and then say it’s effective. She can jump over it or super through it on reaction.

So you have her cornered. Fireball/uppercut xx denjin… you decide to hold it a little longer to screw up her parrying, but instead she chances it and throws out a fast poke and you lose. Or you do it early, meaning you get less time to charge it, and it ends up not fully stunning her and you get reversal supered. If it was easy to land some initial stun before denjin then fine, but with Chun’s ground game that isn’t a cakewalk. And in those situations I didn’t include the possibility that she can try to super through it since a good Chun probably wouldn’t do that, but it can happen.

In tournaments I use Ken for this matchup.


#10

Good advice :rolleyes:


#11

That wasn’t advice, that’s just what I do.

I agree with most of what ShinRyuX said in his first post. But honestly… instead of faster EX fireballs, I’d rather have a better super that I can have stocked more often, Ken’s standing HK, a good crossup, a hit-confirmable target combo, and kara uppercut. Ken’s sweep also seems a little faster to me. It’s not like you’re getting the advantage when you use Ken, you’re just at less of a disadvantage.

But anyway I think SA1 is probably the best super against Chun. Knowing what to do isn’t always the concern… you also need to know what not to do. Most of Ryu’s moves become useless once Chun gets meter so when you’re within her c.MK range, there isn’t really a lot to choose from. The only moves I have the balls to use against a metered Chun are close MK, far MK, c.MK, c.LK, close HP, UOH, EX fireballs… that’s about it. Even in that vid where the Ryu used SA2, he only landed it when the Chun player didn’t hit-confirm. In my opinion this matchup boils down to two things: you either need to be 3x better than the Chun just to get a win, or you need to get lucky, either because of her own faults, or lucky on your own part.

To be honest I suck at this matchup so I’m more interested in hearing other people’s ideas than writing mine.

Edit: removed insults :angel:


#12

im not throwing a denijin as soon as the round starts. Its more along the line of an early round denijin. I just want the 60-80% stun damage early that way I can fake rush her or build meter for another denijin. It gives me 2 options which can be disguised within each other.

You dont need the FULL stun to win. I dont know why you people think this. Any fierce kick or fp or small combo will put that bitch in or near stun. Yea yea shell turtle and fierce you. Once shes in 70% or higher, all you need is one knock down or catch frames on her and she will probably be in stun. Fwd+ fp, fwd + mp, uoh hesistate back throw, c.mk confirm, fp srk all can be followed after a knockdown and will do stun. Hell even c.mp does stun. While your getting your poke strings in your also building meter. Even if you dont manage to stun her, your trading licks with her. Which means her stun will stay relatively high. Once you get that last meter block stun hado denijin that ass. If it looks like she wont let you stun her just stay on her and make sure you get a poke or throw every now and then just to keep the stun up.

A block stun hado followed by a denijin can be only red parried out. Im not 100% sure but to me it looks like the opp is still sliding back from the blocked hado before they can super out. Block stun hado is the best midscreen setup but it has its disadvantages.

The reference to the fierce x2, hk tatsu was only after you put them in stun. I was merely saying that it gives you half meter and im pretty sure its ryu’s strongest non ex combo. you totally missed the point.


#13

Nice – thanks for all the work Flare (and the advice from everyone).

I would still go w/ the Denjin first choice against Chun – even though random EX hados are your best friend against her, I don’t blow EX moves like I used to (that Denjin discipline :P) so even when I’m out to EX hado her I almost always have enough bar for one or two.

But I’m sure many many people are happier w/ SA1 against her, whatever fits best.

Question: Been awhile since a Chun tried to go through my super with hers. Can’t you release Denjin immediately AFTER she supers and always hit her, no matter the distance?


#14

Good info Flare. Also, Ryu’s joudan will almost always go over Chun’s head when she’s crouching, which makes it really risky when used as a combo ender. SA1 or EX fireball are the only good choices left to finish a combo when she’s ducking, assuming you can hit-confirm the first.

As long as you release the denjin after the super freeze (ie. let go of P during the freeze), you’ll stuff her super clean. She can only go through it if it’s already almost hitting her.


#15

GOLDEN advice

I am a Denjin user… and even I have to admit the flaws of using Denjin against chun. With SA3 it’s just to easy to super through it on reaction or wakeup. Best thing for a Chun matchup is to just roll with SA1. That way you can EX when she doesn’t build meter and stuff her on wake up with meaty xx SA1.

Granted I still play this matchup with Denjin because I prefer it, but I think in a tourney setting the safer bet is just to go with SA1. Or hell even possibly 2.


#16

Reverse blocked EX SBK with fierce uppercut. I’m serious.

I’m starting to think I should use UOH more often against Chun. Goes over low pokes and can’t be thrown, and if you get b+fierced out of it, at least a super isn’t going to hit you. Maybe follow it up with another one, standing MK, dash back (unless the UOH hits early, in which case you shouldn’t dash after it), or (walk up) kara throw. Too bad linking SA1 after it is so hard.


#17

Good thread, guys. I know this is Flare’s favorite matchup, lol.

Just wanna add in my own two cents… it’s important to know that pretty much all of Chun’s normals can be parried high. So during footsies against a non-metered Chun, parry everything inside of her st.hp/cr.hk/back+hp ranges high and counter with cr.mk xx EX Hadou for the knockdown. Only moves she has that are low-parries are cr. lk, cr.mp ( non-threatening even with super), and cr.mk… so I have no problem eating the weak damage from those three in the midst of throwing out a high-parry when she doesn’t have meter. Fair tradeoff for the one time you do get the all-important knockdown.


#18

If I play this matchup - it has to be denjin for me. EX fireballs are the best weapon against her - and good Chunners will not expect EX from a denjin user as much as they would from sa1 users.

Ryu has trouble in this match when he needs to chase Chun. So its ideal for Chun to turtle. But in less time, Ryu can turtle and get that denjin ready. Then find and use as many silly setups as you can you can throw it out asap. Then rinse and repeat. A nice and quick way to land a few hits of a denjin on her is to throw it out after a fireball fairly close to her e.g. cr.mk, fireball - cancelled denjin. Obviously use your head a bit in case she has super i.e. charge the denjin well! The point of the first fireball here is to stop her from jumping when she sees the super flash. You’ll need to practice the spacings, as well as fireball strengths to pull this off properly.

I know it sounds quite silly, but after seeing how that rinse and repeat approach favours Yun and Oro, I tried it against Chun and that was the only time I started getting SOME luck in that match. Instead of me chasing the bitch to stop her from getting bar, the situation is almost reversed now (or will be after she eats a denjin). Its slightly easier to hit Chun when she’s on the offensive.

Against sa1, Chun only worries about doing EX SBK on wakeup or not. Against sa3, its totally different. Any knockdown in the corner is major bad news for her - that’ll give you a mental edge. Mid screen knockdowns should be followed with DASH FORWARD DENJIN (think Frankie3s) - that way even if they quick recover, there’s still a good chance you’ll land the denjin.

It also helped when I stopped checking our her digital assets…


#19

While I agree, after a parry the combo you do is guaranteed, so there’s no need for a safe combo. c.MK x HK hurricane does more damage, more stun, doesn’t use meter, and still knocks down. Save the meter/EX fireballs for when you can’t parry as freely, like when she has a super. That’s when a safe combo would come in handy.

Or c.HP x MK joudan if you’re close enough… but if you’re close enough for that, you’re probably already getting kara thrown.


#20

Nice info Flare, and nice post Harmo, I myself play Denjin-Ryu also and I didn’t benefit too much from the majority of the people posting about SAI, so I’m glad to see some good info being set out for SAIII users, this is a very informative topic on how to take on a Top Tier character as a whole, I love it.