S-Video to VGA converter equals Jailbars

I know the Nintendo 64 is one of the few systems that doesn’t have native RGB. I plugged a N64 into the s video of such a converter and I seem to get jail bars.

Haven’t tried other systems to see if it’s an N64 problem, an S-Video problem, or a converter problem .

I got one piece of information that comes up on usual. When pressing a button to get a new resolution it says resolution unknown.

Here’s a pic:

However, I tried my NTSC RF to VGA tuner, and after a little random button pressing (the Chinglish confused more than clarified) I got an RF tuner based working on my VGA Monitor. At first with no sound, then with sound . All with no jailbars.

Why does my SVideo to VGA converter have Jailbars, but not my MTVBox brand NTSC to VGA converter?

P.S. the best version of MK Trilogy is on N64, plus the home version of Killer Instinct Gold. Plus there was this little fight game called Super Smash Bros, but a fight stick is useless. That’s why Brook should make an Retro N64 adapter.

I

“N64 is the best version of MK trilogy”

Now I know you are a troll!!

1 Like

No, No. There no good fighters worth a crap on the 64.

There was no Arcade version.

Lets not open up this can of Worms, thanks.

There hardly a market for it.

What kind of converter are you using, also the quality of S-video cables will effect your picture.

Quality of the converter, does it pick up any noise? Also shielded vs unshielded cables, shielded cables pick up less noise overall. Then again Analog video is very prone to video interference.

Another thing, Depending on the Revision of the N64 main board, it can be easy to restore RGB video to an N64. If you have a N64 serial number that starts with “NS1” (USA), then you most likely have an N64 that’s compatible.

Here a simple version of the N64 RGB mod. This guide shows the older version RGB amp.
https://www.retrorgb.com/n64rgb.html

Here some examples of updated N64 RGB amp boards

And here the updated Guide
https://www.retrorgb.com/n64rgbmod.html

Later revision boards needs a FPGA based Mod like Borri’s N64 RGB Advanced

Chances are, my cable is not junk because it’s the official Nintendo brand SNES / N64 / GameCube S-Video cable.

The S video converter does work well on the Saturn with official Sega cables. But composite on the converter only gives black and white with the official Sega 32x (CD) cable.

As for Mortal Kombat Trilogy. I only said it was the best VERSION of MKT. That was conparing the N64 MKT to PS1 MKT and SS MKT. Would you rather wait 3 to five seconds at every Shang Tsung morph (except maybe 2 user-designated “quick morphs.”)? If the Saturn RAM card was used, then morphing would have been arcade quality. As for it worth getting today… I agree that balance through near equality makes for low replay value. If it weren’t for radical specials and the M rated material MK would be irrelevent today (though specials in MKT are less radical and unique compared to Eternal Champions’ specials. Eternal Champions has time manipulation, vampire healing, scrambling controls, forcing opponent to morph, and a bunch more other stuff. And the only no one talks about EC is Japan trying to promote Virtua Fighter by sabotaging EC and other foreign-to-Japan Sega games)

And Yes I am aware that KI Gold was a “compromised” version of Killer Instinct 2, that Nintendo was afraid to call it KI2 because it was not arcade par. Yet they called SNES KI a home version if KI1, because the arcade KI1 was promised on the Ultra 64 and people understood KI1SNES would be not the same graphically.

By the way, here’s my Composite/S Video to VGA converter. It was when I was trying to find a way to (incorrectly) play S Video games in a 480i YCbCr CRT TV without losing color information. Don’t know why I saved it. Glad I did. It’s a (relatively) free shot.

That actually means very little. Nintendo did peddle out junk cables in the past.
Also cabled can break down over time.

If anything I suspect your Converter.

Again it could be your converter, do you know what converter it is?

While you were typing I edited my post to add a picture cuz I accidentally slipped and hit a wrong button to post instead of add a picture.

Go back look at it and see. I already owned it. As I said, when I tried to do something else and it didn’t work, I didn’t find the value in selling it so it was basically a free shot.

Can’t blame me to see if what I already have works or not. It’s not like it’s going to do permanent damage.

All right Tspeedo:

I gave a perfectly good, perfectly serious reason why in one respect the N64 version is better than the PS1 version: lack of loading time on Shang Tsung morphs.

What features does the PS1 and/or Saturn version that is worth putting up with mid match loading with a Shang Tsung morph?

(By the way the Saturn RAM cartridge would be a legitimate reason, if it were used. But since it never released in America it’s either a hidden function that was planned but could never be implemented unless you imported. If it could be used then that would let her have the best of both worlds the N64 instant Shang tsung morphs as well as whatever Advantages the PlayStation 1 version has over the N64.)

N64 is missing several stages, tracks and characters. Most moves are missing frames of animation leading to broken corner HK infinites. The presentation suffers from muffled sound, a dark color palette and significant slowdown.

You named the only positive of this port as the reason it is superior. Load times.

The load times on saturn are not that bad and psx is even better. The only time it is an issue is morphing.

If you are that butt-hurt about Shang Tsung then play the PC version. Its identical to PSX but without the load times.

It was what we were talking about in my circle of friends. We were mostly Saturn people at the time.

We were jonesing for the Saturn RAM card.

Yes, the lack of tag teams is more of an essential feature loss on the PS1 X-Men vs SF and Marvel vs SF compared to morph problems. No tag teams effects every game. However the load time only matters ludistically when Shang Tsung is a character.

If ai had to choose between combo a of PS1 MKT and SS XvSF or combo b of N64 MKT and PS1 XvSF, I’d choose combo A.

(SS XvSF - PS1 XvSF) > (N64 MKT - PS1 MKT)

Most of us can agree to that above equation. The tougher question is whether term 2 is a positive or negative value.

By the way, I heard that PS1 let you “preload a few instant morphs” for Shang Tsung, and only bogs down loading when you pick outside of the list. So you can somewhat plan, but if you go off the playbook, your human opponent can think and strategize during that pause. So pick your preloads wisely.

And hopefully, like the Saturn UMK3, you can force the CPU to not make a load-inducing morph when it is Shang Tsung.

Both SS and PSX version allow you to choose limited morphs.

After selecting Shang you then select 2 other characters for morphing. You cannot morph into anyone else. If you choose a character that has palette swaps you may morph into any of them ex. If you choose reptile as a morph you may morph into any male ninja…
I dont think the A.I. performs morphs in either of these versions. (I could be wrong)
I find this to be a reasonable compromise.

The PC version plays identical to the PSX. But does not have the memory limitations so you can use all morphs without loading.

As for your equation…
I have no idea what we are talking about anymore.

1 Like

The equation in more “non mathematical English” is:

The difference between X-Men vs SF versions is greater than the difference between MK Trilogy versions.

The gameplay differences with no tag teams is bigger than no morphs.

The only people who like the PS1 version of XvSF are literally ignorant of the existence of the Arcade and Saturn version. (Which are very few SRK regulars) If you don’t know what you’re missing, you won’t notice.

As for the original topic: I shouldn’t chase something that may introduce unknown lag for “all in one concenience”. It’s cheaper, and if I lose, I’d question the lag in an S Video to VGA adapter.

Might as well be a good sport, and go with the known quantity, and when I lose, blame my lack of knowledge/skills compared to the opponent instead of the TV.

This Debate has nothing to do with tech talk.
Pl7s the Sega CD version of MK2 with the gamw freezing for like 6 minutes while Shang Sung decides to change while the Console loading the new moveset from the CD.

If you want a easy way to hook up all your consoles to a CRT stick to Composite Video and get a regular consumer grade TV. You have zero lag and an authentic period console experience

I was answering someone else’s tangent about N64 vs PS1

Back on subject, in general, the less conversions you do the better. I do have lots of S video and Component cables.

And most “simple” conversions take no more that 200 microseconds. The big computing power, and main time lost is in one digital resolution to another, and interlacing/deinterlacing. Color space change (YC to YCbCr, YPbPr to VGA )and digital <-> analog conversions cost little in terms of ping time…

… Enough to ruin light gun games (which must be sub-Microsecond) , but not enough to ruin anything else, including fighters.

I don’t know where you get that figure from.
The video conversion is in nanoseconds not microseconds.

No, Light gun operate in the millisecond range, thousand times slower than you think.
They can’t go faster than the NTSC Refresh rate

Stop making stuff up. Lightguns timing are more critical than fighters.
You can adapt to lag, the lightgun can not.

I don’t know who’s got the math confused but I know that if it’s measured in milliseconds with a number greater than 1 the number is in the frame range. That would affect Fighters.

Most HDMI to VGA converterss are under 1 millisecond, therefore, at slowest, in the microsecond range.

According to the video the HDMI to VGA converter is around 200 microseconds or .2 milliseconds.

If your converters are in the microsecond range it could throw off a light gun by throwing off your aim. And it may throw off the sync on the Sega Master System 3D goggles. For those two cases you should plug it as directly as possible into the basic CRT TV

When you get ping times that are sub microsecond, that’s when you start to get converters that might work with light gun games, if timing were the only issue. There might be other issues that may cause failure that I am unaware of.

But if converters are in the microsecond range then it should not throw off Fighters, music based games and pure reflex games.

What equals a second:
1 thousand milliseconds,
1 million microseconds,
1 billion nanoseconds,
1 trillion picoseconds,

The “time per pixel” of a CRT is in the nanosecond range. That’s why microsecond is not good enough for light gun games. But microsecond range is great for anything that doesn’t need “pixel perfect” timing.

Fighters are measured in frames, which for a 60Hz game, is 16-17 ms. A half frame or less is considered pro level. Therefore an HDMI to VGA adapter in the 200 microsecond range is GREAT for fighters, if hooked up to a CRT VGA.

All I said is a microsecond range delay is a great converter for everything other than light gun and Sega Scope games.

Where exactly am I wrong in this thinking?

People seem to mix up the difference between accurate enough for fighting and accurate enough for light gun games.

Because I don’t know if timing is the only issue with a light gun game with a standard video to VGA conversion, I will not attempt light gun and Sega Scope games on a VGA. If most standard video to VGA converters are in the microsecond range, that’s good enough for me, and most likely good enough for any serious fight fan.

It’s not that the delay ruins light guns, it is that the technology of light guns are incompatible with LCDs. Light guns look for light, and plasma, LCD and Oled screens don’t produce the light that Light Guns look for.

I’m talking about using a Composite S Video or component signal, converting it to a VGA CRT, and expect the timing to be right.

I understand that light gun games work not by telling where it senses light but when to the nearest pixel and then computes where it is based on the timing it senses versus the timing in the actual computer’s internal “time clock”. It makes a computation and computes a where based on a when.

A VCR can throw off the aim by a few pixels.

Even if you could in theory play Composite/SVideo/RF/Component (you can) in a CRT VGA, one thing that could go wrong is timing. There may be other issues (that I don’t know, but know of) but microsecond level delay will definitely make light gun games unplayable.