Sacred cows that keep the game from going forward


#1

There are some issues that, sadly, are so prevalent in the mind of either Capcom workers or a subset of players that it’s probably easier to pick another game than have them dealt with in the SF franchise. Which are to you those stupid sacred cows? Here are some:

Shoryuken with all upsides. The most obvious one and brought first so we can then focus on others, because it’s such a lost cause. Invulnerability frames, guaranteed knockdown, armor breaker, focus cancellable, autocorrecting, input lenient… etc. In a rare event something actually fares well against shoryukens like Sakura jumping fierce, the shoto hordes just start whining and lo and behold, Capcom reestablishes the “natural order” (I play mostly online, and this is probably more relevant there).
**Different health across the cast. **As a balancing tool, it feels lame even when it works: It’s bad to see Seth turned into a glass cannon and not even Akuma deserves that. Doing health ajustments for realism pretensions is even worse and any developer suggesting health differences based on physical appearance should be shown the door immediately. Much health has never saved a character like Q and Zangief from being overall bad and making pixie characters like Juri or El Fuerte low health has little sense since they don’t even have the damage output to make up for it. Give them 1000 life, any problem? Give T.Hawk some good moves and make him 900 life, no one that is actually playing the game will complain.
Pauses for ultra or super moves. All they do is to put a “please hold back now” warning sign for the defensive character and ultra counter moves like Fei and Cammy’s U2 become jokes. Admitedly, this is now a industry standard, but it should have a deactivate options for the players that truly want to win instead of merely looking good.
Complete lack of chip damage for normals and very little for specials. Holding back should always be a temporary and situational answer instead of being such a burden that “unsafe on block” is a death sentence for a lot of moves that aren’t shoryuken. This is a place where SF could learn a little from Mortal Kombat: keep blocking if you like, that health bar isn’t not lasting that long. I guess a guard bar does the same work and has been proven before; all I would ask for is for it to be quite short (and all adjustments regarding health would be better implemented here) to the point that three HK / HP were enough so the fourth one breaks it.


#2

Seth and Akuma with 1000 Stamina? That is like the worst idea ever.


#3

The 1000 life suggestion was for Juri and El Fuerte, but that’s the point: if Akuma and Seth having 1000 life is unthinkable, there’s a bigger problem that won’t be solved by lowering their life, but by nerfing them in other areas or even better, buffing everyone else.


#4

Eh, I don’t see anything wrong with health differences. it just shouldn’t be the only balancing tools, which it sure felt like sometimes(not so much now).


#5

Lost me at jump ins beating dps


#6

Ultras and supers should never be safe tbh. Don’t throw them out recklessly and the pause will never be a problem.


#7

I dunno, he’s got a point in the counter based ultras… Also, I believe standardized health would be great. It’s one of the main reasons why I was converted to the KOF camp.


#8

>normals doing chip damage

Ah, so we gots a Netherealm fan on our hands here.

Should fireballs pass through each other too?


#9

But if you’re using a counter ultra, the opponent will already be mid-attack animation anyway… Unless they’re using an attack that is fadc-able and the person has god like reflexes (don’t think that’s even possible), I don’t see how the freeze changes anything.


#10

TC probably wants said counter ultras to work more like Dudley’s Cross Counter (freeze happens after he gets hit).

So like they’d enter some nondescript pose for a second, and then their ultra meter would vanish afterwards. Like Valentine’s counter-super in Skullgirls?

Anyway, dat -5 DP FADC in Ultra tho.


#11

so you’re basically asking for a shitty fighting game ? ther’s plenty of them out there already


#12

Which brings us to an important lesson. Remember kids, the First Amendment guarantees that you can safely state your own opinion, but doesn’t guarantee that that opinion is logical, correct, or even remotely relevant.


#13

What the . . . what kind of . . . no, these are terrible.

  1. Dragon punches are anti-airs, they’re supposed to beat out jump-ins. They’re hella easy to punish, so why bother?

  2. You not liking the differentiating health for these characters doesn’t mean that it’s “holding the game back.” Characters trade health for power and options, it’s a good trade when risk-reward isn’t horribly skewed (lolSeth)

  3. Do you really want these things to come out faster? When something that does a lot of damage is in the game, it needs something to balance it out. Longer startup, longer recovery, a combination of both, etc. If you do a super at random while the opponent is blocking, you deserve it.

I’ll give you counter ultras, but only to an extent; I still see people landing these, so they’re not completely worthless.

  1. So you’re saying that if a Cammy player traps you in the corner that she should be able to chip you with her pokes? Sure, thanks for buffing my character. =\

#14

There are already a mechanic to counter blocking opponent and that is to throw them…


#15

On health: it’s a tertiary balancing mechanic at best, but it is a valid way of evening out a character’s edges. Basically, if a character isn’t quite to the point where you want them to be but you think you’ve given them all the right tools to succeed, then you can tweak their health. It’s not a terribly large effect in the grander scheme of things, but it can help.

Counter ultras are entirely a way to beat out safejumps, crossups you can’t DP, and low recovery normals you couldn’t normally ultra through. Their problem is more that they’re a free lvl3 FA than the screen freeze, as it’s assumed you enter it to go off AFTER they’ve pressed a button. That and armor breakers beating them out of course.

FADC for meterless SRK is being addressed in Ultra anyways, so I’m not sure what the problem is here. Don’t jump at people unless you make it a guess if they’ll hit the SRK or not.

On chip damage: I don’t think you quite understand how SF works.


#16

They have fireballs in NR games?


#17

You lost me at DPs being armor breakers… in most cases, Ryu players like Daigo will use Fierce DP (or even jab DP), wich does not break armor unless it’s a reversal, but every other reversal special does it too. I can name a lot of other DPs that hit only once, like every Sagat TU except EX, Cammy’s DP, Viper’s TK, etc

Also, the pause for Ultra/Supers exists not only to make them “look cool”, they exist to not make them overpowered (wich some people already think they are). If you don’t understand why, I can explain it to you…

I think that you should do some research first and only then suggest changes to a widely accepted and loved game and its mechanics


#18

I’m not complaining about startup frames, those can be kept unchanged. The animation freeze (and the sound cue to an extent) is the problem. Another example: Guy and Honda’s ultra 2 are completely killed by a single startup frame. Fei’s Tenshin probably has a better success rate


#19

The purpose of 0+1 Ultra command grabs is to either blow through attacks or punish. Granted, they’re not that good at the first because even if you blow through a jumpin, they may not be grounded due to it not being a 4f safe jump, which is a problem. You’ll still see it get used against Adon or other characters who poke with -1 or -2 moves. That said, it’s kind of a silly mechanic that should be rethought or reworked.


#20

The startup animation is there to make the move useless if not placed properly.

They’re supposed to be top-heavy moves that don’t “just work”.

Personally, I think almost all ultras should be required to be combo’d into rather than done raw, with the obvious extreme exceptions like the average grappler’s U1.