Safe Jump Question


#1

Let’s say I have a move [Called “Move KD”] that gives the opponent a hard knock down for 60 frames.

My jump is 44 frames total

4 frames of start-up
36 frames of airborne time
4 frames of post jump frames.

Let’s also say I have 2 moves:

One that lasts a total of 20 frames [Called “Move A”]
The other lasts a total of 21 frames [Called “Move B”]

If I want to perform a safejump set-up [let’s say on a 4 frame reversal] which scenario would work.

Move KD, Move A, Jumping Round House
Move KD, Move B, Jumping Round House

If anyone with good knowledge of this subject would also let me know how post jump frames factor into a safe jump set-up I would be truly grateful.


#2

Well, the first one would theoretically whiff 20+40 means you’ll hit on their last frame of being down. 21+40 means you’d hit on their first frame up and this would be a frame perfect safe jump good up to 4 frame reversals. Oddly the wiki claims that for the 4 post jump frames you can block with the last two, so someone will have to fill me in. I assumed it was the last one you could block which was why 3 frame safe jumps were impossible.

On a side note I’m pretty happy to see the newbie forum starting to cover more advanced topics. Good show chum.


#3

Thanks a whole lot Raas, I really appreciate it. Also I don’t mean to let you down, but I’m not necessarily a newbie. I only asked here because A. I didn’t know where else to ask [is there a SSF4 engine mechanics Q&A Thread?] and B. I figured that if I’m going to ask, I’d ask where a lot of people who don’t know might see it and learn something lol. Either way, they get exposed to the information I figure.


#4

1 frame while you are still airborne doing the j.attack
2 frames of landing recovery where you can’t block

thats where the 3 frames in total comes from


#5

It’s not that simple. The total number of frames of move A or B don’t really matter. What matters is (assuming a hard knockdown):

  1. How long it takes you to recover after the move connects
  2. How long the opponent takes to recover after the move connects
  3. Your jumping frames (forward or neutral)
  4. The hitbox of your jumpin attack

1 is affected by whether or not your move lands meaty, if it trades, or when it connects (eg. if it’s a projectile). 2 is affected by character-specific attributes and whether or not the move landed as a counter-hit. 3 is self-explanatory. 4 is usually only important for safe-jumping 3f moves, but you can apply it to other situations.

The best way of determining a safe-jump setup is to take a known setup and work relative to that. eg. If you know that you can safe-jump a 5f reversal after f.throw by first whiffing a 20f move for the timing, then you should be able to safe-jump a 4f reversal using the same setup by whiffing a 19f move instead.

This thread covers some of the mechanics, including jumping/landing:


#6

His example isn’t perfect, but he’s on the right path. You can definitely come up with this stuff on your own.

The only issue here is that you ignored recovery on Move KD. If you knockdown, and it takes 60F for the opponent to wake up, you have to remember that during the first few frames of that 60, you are still recovering from Move KD. So when you’re developing this stuff, you have to figure out what frame at which you are free to move in this process, then add the whiffed move for timing, then the jump.

As for landing frames, if you attack in the air, there are two frames after you land, during which you can’t do anything. After those two frames, there are another two frames during which you can’t do anything, except block.

So in a safe jump, as was explained, if executed perfectly, on the first frame that your opponent is up from the knockdown, you’ll be in the air in the last frame of your jump. On frame 2 of your opponent being up, you’ll be in your first landing frame. In frame 3 of their wake-up, you’ll be in your second landing frame, still unable to do anything. That is why 3F reversals will hit here.

You can block a 4F reversal here, and a 5F reversal as well, but that’s all you can do with them. That’s why you can’t OS 5F reversals. You can only block it, because your OS’d move won’t come out since you can only block in your 4th landing frame. 6F reversals, and up can be OS’d because you should be out of your landing frames by the time they hit.

Umm yeah… a little more info than you asked for, I guess… but it helps to know as much as possible.


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#7

It’s nice knowing how and why it functions the way it does.