Safe jumps.

fei-long

#1

After a guy constantly started to safe jump my Fei (two frame timing vs flame kick) with great success I’ve become inspired to start abusing them myself. If you’ve got a safe jumo setup then post it here.

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Safe jumps aren’t possible against invincible moves that are 3 frames or less and Gief and Abel’s EX command throws.

Ryu, Ken and Akuma’s SRK can’t be safe jumped normally but there is a special trick to it.

Sagat’s uppercut is 5 frames meaning there’s a 2-frame window to land the safe jump which is pretty easy after some practice.

These moves lead to safe jump possibilities:
front throw
back throw
sweep
EX flame kick, both on the ground and as deep AA
super/ultra (not too sure about the ultra and I can’t test these stuff for the moment)

Safe jump setup vs Ryu. The point here is that Ryu’s SRK doesn’t hit right away because Fei lands too far from him to reach. Ken and Akuma has longer ranges on their SRKs this setup will not work on them. Sprint mentioned walking back vs Ken a bit does this work against Akuma too?


#2

fooled around a little with this, but i havent been practicing sf like normal, so i didnt get too far.

it takes fei 38 frames to jump in and land

foward throw leaves the opponent grounded for at least 47 frames. known from my meaty ex tenshin setup, overhead(35)+ex tenshin start up(12)

so it should be just a matter of finding the right normal to whiff and immediately jump in with the meaty. what we really need to do is figure out how many frames the sweep, backthrow, and unteched knockdown leaves the opponent grounded for. from there, its simple math

i’ll try backthrow, and see how many crouching mp’s i can whiff before the opponent gets hit for a start

theres also a safe jump guide that goes character to character as far as who can be safe jumped and who cant. i’ll link it here later

EDIT:http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=180482


#3

Good stuff HNIC Mike also this isn’t safe jumps but having setups to perform crossups that the opponent can’t auto adjust too should also be in this thread.

I’ll be playing tomorrow so I’ll try to figure out these setups and post them later.


#4

Actually, you can safe jump Ken’s F. Shoruyken if timed right.

I’ve done this a lot in my Ken matches where if i knock the guy down (and I know he loves that fierce shoryuken), I’ll purposely jump over him while he’s knocked down (kinda like a cross up except much more past him), the f. shoryuken will miss completely.


#5

daigo do that all the time


#6

Good stuff Bub :tup: Awesome link HNIC :tup: That safe-jump chart looks very handy =) 1 frame safe-jumps. Wow

Well, I’ve mostly been using Fei’s low roundhouse and neutral throw to attempt safe-jumps with j.Fierce (j.Strong may be good too). Not sure on the precise frame data, but I think these are a start. I believe what he can safe jump after would be:

neutral throw
back throw (possibly)
low roundhouse
unteched rekka (corner)/shien
ultra

I 2nd adding x-ups to this thread as well Bub. Sounds good. For instance, after landing a shien, jab dp beats cross-up attempt…

What gets me a little though in regards to safe-jumps is how if you are off by 1fr, you get thrown. Some ppl will wake up with a throw vs safe jump attempts. So, basically, if you mess up, you get thrown and likely, safe jumped :lol: . If you don’t mess up, you land a combo because they were mashing throw.

Again, that chart is VERY handy. I didn’t know that Ryu/Ken/Akuma couldn’t be safe-jumped (also, throw in Gief/Abel/Seth w/ meter). It helps tremendously in knowing not just how to safe jump, but when it is good to use and who it is good to use safe jumps against.

*Actually, I am sure the window is greater than 1fr vs some of the cast. It can’t be as tight as 1fr for EVERYONE. Take Rose/Chun/Sakura/Bison for example. Or is it? But anyway, as bodler said, Daigo uses safe-jumps repeatedly as I saw in a certain set he played in. Neutral throw…step back…j.Fierce. Looks simple, but maybe he just got it down. Will try and link the vid(s).


#7

rpgr that’s a cross up not a safe jump

I tried to throw when the guy who safe jumped me mistimed and empty jumped instead but he saw through that and teched it :rofl:

I saw those Daigo vids too but the ones I saw was vs Rufus and Bison and the safe jump windown against those is like 10 frames. HOWEVER he reacted to their reversals with EX shoryukens which is just insane.

Safe jumpable characters I can think of right now. Easy are like 5+frames
Sagat, 3 frame window, VERY important and easy to execute
Boxer easy
Dic, easy
Chun; 2 frame window I think
Honda easy
Rufus easy
Fei, 1 frame window
Sakura, easy
I’ll get a complete list for the timings later, I think that the safe jump list is way too hard to read.

Should also say why they add so much to Fei’s game. Fei’s pressure stinks with safe jump he gets tons of block advantage which can lead to tenshin setups and it’s excellent shoryu bait. The best option select of all where you can both hit and block at the same time.

judge_rl I think that EX flame kick can lead to a safe jump even if quick rolled because it launches the opponent like crazy. Maybe lk/hk flame kick too or at least on specific characters.


#8

Hmm, might be useful against Blanka…grrr, I hate Blanka.


#9

Nope both his upball and Ultra punishes safe jumps:sweat:

Still I really can’t understand why people have trouble against him.


#10

But the guide said that reversal vertical roll loses to safe jump…what the heck? And Ultra can be blocked by jump in? Am I reading it wrong lol?

Ugh he can be frustrating to fight…his jump and walk speed is really fast which totally throws me off. Not to mention his small hitbox. He’s got a good focus attack and his hops are really confusing. On paper, he sounds easy but man, if you fight a good patient yet mobile blanka, it’s pretty tough. Maybe it’s just online…teching throws can be a bitch to do online.


#11

Ok my bad I thought that 4 frame moves beat jumpins but apparently 3 frames is the limit. EDIT now I’ve heard that it’s 4 frames of landing recovery again from a pretty reliable source and when I asked how a safe jump works on 4 frame moves with 4 frames of landing recovery he just said that for some reason it does.

So yes you can safe jump blanka but it’s a 1 frame window=)

Against blanka it is online.


#12

my calculations arent 100%, but im seeing aproxamately between 47-50 frames on all the knockdowns. the problem that presents is that i dont think fei has a short enough normal to allow an exact scientific safe jump. 47-38=9, 50-38=12. jab=13

in my tests im recording fei either sweeping/backthrowing/foward throwing whiffing one jab, and immediately jumping in with fierce. the problem is that its really easy to double tap jab and i cant get my timing exact. if i were to get a perfect safe jump, fei would be abel to land and block before getting hit. but im reversal dp’ing him every time with sagat. however im not sure of my timing, or my calculations of the wake up timing. next fastest normal that is non chainable is close lk, at 14. i’ll try that out and see what i come up with.

if you guys have any ideas for testing, ie visual cues, or whatever, let me know


#13

Experimented a bit with safe jumps after EX flame kick and found the easiest safe jump setup ever. just hold uf after and you’ll get a safe jump. These are all done when hitting the opponent with EX flame kick on the ground.

Works on: Sagat (not against his lk/ mk super), Chun (her super is not safe jumpable), Honda, Dic, Boxer, Claw (for some reason I couldn’t get out a EX flip kick on reversal against the safe jump, even when the input display showed that I did the move perfectly, I don’t know much about claw but is this a glitch?), Rufus, Fuerte, Viper, Fei

Not on: Guile, Abel (EX TT), the shotos, Sim (his super and ultra), Gief (EX SPD)

Blanka gets up too slow to get hit by Fei’s jumpin but it should work with a very small delay

I haven’t unlocked any of the console chars except for Fei long :rofl:

Moves on the ground where safe jumps are possible: all non quick standable + EX flame kick
AA/juggle CW and AA flame kick (depends on range and button used) can also be safe jumped after


#14

That’s not reaction. He’s option selecting it.

As an example, with Fei you could do something like:
Jump :hk:, :l::d::db::hk:, :lp: xx :r::d::l::k:

Timing it so that the FK is inputted with the timing of an empty landing. Preferably triggering it with negative edge so you don’t have to worry about accidentally doing it too late.

If your jump-in hits or is blocked, the special doesn’t come out and you get jab-tenshin.
If the jump-in whiffs (due to backdash or reversal), you land earlier so the special comes out and stuffs whatever they reversed with.

In practice what’s best to use depends on the opponent… like certain characters destroy FK with their own reversal, but you can use HK CW to invincible yourself through it instead. It varies.

The main use is against opponents with meter to stop them spamming reversal into FADC without having to specifically bait it. They can’t FADC something that doesn’t even touch you… especially if you smack them straight out of it :slight_smile:

There are 4 frames of landing recovery, but they aren’t necessarily vulnerable. If you don’t attack in the air, all 4 frames are safe. You can do any move you like from the instant you land, including block.

If you do attack in the air, the first two frames become entirely uncancellable. What this means against reversals is:
Frame 1: Your last airborne frame, assuming perfect safe jump timing.
Frame 2: First vulnerable landing frame.
Frame 3: Second vulnerable landing frame. Reversals that hit on the 3rd frame will do so.
Frame 4: Safe again.


#15

You guys keep it up. Whoever gets to the point where they are using option selects so effectively would be pretty beast. It basically removes the guessing game and is just plain dirty :slight_smile: I’m not on that level.


#16

The 4 frames of landing recovery still don’t make sense to me, I’m just seeing 2 frames of landing recovery but I know that you’re right.

I feel a little stupid for that Daigo option select thing when I posted a similar option select in the Chun thread about a week later. I really should know what I talk about before making a post:sweat: I’m defenitely gonna start messing around with safe jumps into FK, seems badass.


#17

After performing an attack in the air you can block after the 2nd landing frame, but can’t attack or move (walk / crouch / jump / dash / backdash) until after the 4th frame… so something like safe jump into backdash doesn’t work very well since you’ll likely end up just high-blocking whatever they do…

After an empty landing you can block and attack immediately, but still can’t move until after the 4th frame.

Late edit: Turns out the first frames you can block and attack on are different.


#18

could someone test this out for me to confirm

backthrow, s.lp, neutral jump hk

(I was able to do this against ryu and avoid getting srk’ed)


#19

You can’t safe jump Ryu’s SRK. Only attacks that are 4 frames or more are safe jumpable. If you blocked the SRK that means that your j.hk would whiff.


#20

yes if ryu srk’ed on wakeup the j.hk would wiff and I would end up blocking, if ryu doesn’t do anything on wakeup he would be forced to block high, I can get it recorded if you want to see it?