Sagat AE2013 What does the king Need to be relevant

sagat

#1

Hi guys i know we’ve started a similar thread but it was purely speculation. I am not playing as much thesedays but maybe sagat becoming stronger again may make me enjoy the game again. Anyways as we all know the path of maining sagat is a long frustrating and salty experience. Satisfying at times and it would be awesome if sagat could become top tier (but not broken and easy mode top tier) Anyways please get behind this our characters strength could be in our hands for once. http://www.capcom-unity.com/street_fighter/go/thread/view/7411/29822777/sagat-balance-suggestions i think we have a week to post our requests. Feel free to cut and paste suggestions from previous thread.


#2

Posted via fb,

I think my post is visualy appealing and organized, and i suggest that people copy paste it to see if theres a higher chance of it getting read

http://www.capcom-unity.com/street_fighter/go/post/reply/7411/29822777/sagat-balance-suggestions?quote=530064903#post_input


#3

That dooplis guy… Sagat not even once.


#4

Yeah he is a fimbler! He doesn’t even know set ups and complains. Thawk actually does pretty well against sagat. Sagats matchup but not by that much and its def winnable.


#5

What I don’t get about that thread is that why are there people who clearly haven’t played a single hour of Sagat posting like they been at it since vanilla. Strong theory fighters in that thread lol. I sincerely hope Capcom actually listens to the right people in that thread. I have a feeling after this we might be stuck with this version of SF4 till whatever big fighter comes out.

quick edit from the ken thread I’ve been going through…

f+mk* - +4 on hit

lol

lol

lol

lol

lol

lol

facepalm.jpg


#6

Yeah i hope so too. This is why i said who i was and linked my combo/set up vid as well as go into depth on what i requested.Hopefully they at the very least fix slk, tu damage and the ultra glitch.


#7

I’m done posting on that thread anymore or defending people, now its just a troll fest of morons who have no idea how to play Sagat. Mainly full of people that had their nights wrecked by vanilla Sagat and are under the same false delusion now.


#8

I’m afraid to read capcom unity’s thread. I was there once when AE 1st hit & the amount of ignorance was astounding. Which is saying something after spending a good amout of time here & on eventhubs.

I’d like 2 things.

  1. Vanilla s.lk
  2. Tiger Knee to be a reliable combo ender again.

#9

Thats fair, 1st hit should force stand


#10

Yo that nick and dopolis morons are trolling hard! i reported one of em for harassment, they seem to be the only vocal anti-buff voices, lets pray to tomo we get what we need.


#11

Like I said in the Fei Long board, they really shouldn’t be asking the community as a whole. If they want to ask advice for buffs and nerfs they should get the top players from around the world that bring in the cash and recognition for their company.

Players like Fuudo, Mago, Ryan Hart, Xian, Infiltration , Justin Wong etc etc.

Or at least listen to their ideas in comparison to the mass crowd. At the end of the day these tweaks are for tournament purposes, not for little johnny and his mate that play on XBL.


#12

From Haunts:
"Some really good feedback here imo. Jotting down all the relevant info.

For those of you who think Sagat was too strong in Vanilla you have to understand that he rarely won a tournament even back then. After time went on there were many match ups (Akuma) that he had serious problems with. People just didnt explore the game fully but after going to Japan in '09 I saw that he wasnt nearly as “broken” as people made him out to be here in the States. He was very good back then dont get me wrong but a lot of people were just getting blown up by making stupid mistakes like jumping into his F. RH and not respecting uppercuts. He needed some tweaking but I think most of us agree a lot of the stuff that made him fun to play was stripped away.

Sagat is a very technical character and you have to be a really smart player to use him well. Personally, as simply a Sagat player and not a Capcom employee, a lot of the stuff here proposed seems pretty fair and will just allow him to contend with the likes of Fei Long in his current iteration."

Seems like the people who know what they are talking about are getting their voices heard! Nice having a capcom employee maining your character, and the dooshes are falling on deaf ears.

I mean all in all, lets be real, morons asking for unreasonable stuff certainly will not be taken into account, no ones gonna give dhalsim a full screen command grab no matter how many people ask.

however noticing a reoccurance of reasonable requests, like I think ours are, hopefully they will give us a measured response.


#13

Normally I’d agree with you, but on this occasional I cant say that. The majority of the community makes the game not the top players, however the top players are mostly notable in their opinions. Then again what are top players? The ones that place in tournaments? the Xbox/PSN/PC leaderboard? Someone that just destroys everyone in your local scene? The whole idea of asking the community for balance changes is actually a step in the right direction for SSF4. Actual top players probably make around 5-10% of the total community thanks to explosion of playerbase during '09 who were introduced/reintroduced to streetfighter. Even players like playerjun/T Srai/ Garam Hawk/insert Japanese xbox live player aren’t really top players if you consider their tournament placing, top on xbox live maybe but amazing players none the less. Does that mean their opinions matter then ?

Though this could just all be a massive trolling by capcom and we’d get a return of the nonsense that happen in version 2012 location testing where they introduced some changes and then removed them in the final arcade/home console versions.

I say let people speak and I hope Capcom do listen to a Tom, Dick or Harry. It would make the game interesting for sure, and show that the community managers at Capcom are actually earning their pay.

Just my two cents.


#14

My friend has a theory that the already have the buffs and nerfs made, they just want to see how it intersects with the public’s opinion.


#15

I’d disagree. I mean put a percentage on knowledgeable players just on SRK (not even talking the world). What would you have 20% maybe 30% at a push? and that’s being kind. That other 70% don’t even know how to play the game let alone make game breaking decisions on character changes. People can’ t think for themselves. They would rather hunt down the answer on a forum board or ask the question.

I frequent a few character threads and it’s always the same 2 or 3 blokes maximum dishing out good advice. I’m all for changes but I fear personally there are more people who just don’t know how to play match ups than those that are qualified to talk about changes.

What would be really cool ( a fellow player mentioned this on another board) is if they make some sort of documentary or diary on just how exactly they come to the decisions. I feel everyone would hope that they (Capcom) actually understand why Sagat needs buffs as opposed to just looking at complaints and tournament results. It could be something as complicated as compiled data or a simple as Capcom just changing it for the hell of it.

Just to be clear, I’m not a heavy tournament player myself, I mostly play casual but I do understand the importance of not breaking the game.

It’s possible. Like I said above we don’t know the process. This could just be one massive PR stunt. Get everyone over to the Capcom Unity site to promote the game and sign up with their facebook accounts!!!


#16

So i found an accurate video of what the current version of sagat is and the expectations this sub-forum has.

youtube.com/watch?v=DL59L10zBBY

(yes fei long is using a hat and brown hair and cammy died her hair black to match the pink dress)


#17

ROFL!!!

Also i disagree with letting only the top or well known top players comment. They are not always correct. I think that if you’re going to go that way about it they should ask at least 5 top players of each character at least that way you get a more well rounded answer. What happens if you get a sagat or any other character for that matter who plays the character in a way that benefits from certain buffs rather then somebody who plays him in different way. For example. Say leslie asks for better fireball recovery and nothing to aid sagats offense . (just an example) Bias comes in that way. We don’t want 1 person in control of buffs or nerfs that is not a wise idea imo.

I think what they are doing is good, however they should have put disclaimers saying that if you do not main the character or do not wish to be constructive that you should not post and give mod rights to 1 or 2 ppl to keep the bullshit out. Again just my opinion. But i am happy with whats happening i briefly spoke to haunts in pm msgs on there and he said that dont worry we are not taking notice of the ppl speaking shit and not giving explanations for their posts.

Oh and i got buttered :stuck_out_tongue: hahaa

6.55 :wink:


#18

Here’s Ryan Harts suggested changes

Hi Guys,

Firstly I am not in the belief that anything I say here will have an iota of effect on how Sagat turns out. I just thought I’d join in the fun of listing how I would like to see Sagat in future.

Now during the Super SF4 days I used to wish Sagat could have his cancel-able st lk back, but now I think that would be too strong. I also wanted his vanilla tiger knee back but that would also be ridiculous. So here we are, a list of changes that definitely improve Sagat but do not make him broken by any means. Read on folks:

-ULTRA 1 AS A JUGGLE IN THE CORNER SHOULD HIT FULLY AND NEVER WHIFF.
Ultra 1 as a juggle should never whiff and it should fully connect in the corner as does Ryu’s ultra - currently it is laughable that this hasn’t been repaired from vanilla. And in my opinion, the fact that they only changed like 2 things since the old version shows me they do not understand this character and how he works in this game. It’s so ridiculous that in fact no Sagat ever uses this in the corner, you spend time cornering certain characters and when you finally do the ultra, not only doesn’t it hit properly doing a only a slither of the damage it should but then they get sent to the other side of the screen, totally ridiculous.

This would not be a bad fix that breaks Sagat or anything, it would just be normal. It’s a move that should have hit from the very beginning so it needs to be repaired. If the damage is an issue then they can scale it but at least it won’t hit in a stupid way where it whiffs or sends the opponent (that you’ve spent time cornering) flying to the opposite side of the screen after the ultra.

-STANDING MK SHOULD BE BUFFED SO THAT SWEEPS DO NOT GO UNDER IT
Standing MK is supposed to be designed to be a keep out tool for low attacks as it moves his lower hurtbox back slightly yet currently there are situations where low forwards blatantly beat it out and give the opponent a valuable combo/knockdown.

This would be a totally fair buff as this can still be beat out by a faster or better timed move, it can also be whiff punished and focused as Sagat cannot cancel this move.

-F+HK SHOULD BE AN UN-TECH-ABLE KNOCKDOWN
Although Sagat isn’t a setup character it’s clear that he needs to be in order to stand up in this game looking at the current characters that sit on the top of the throne in majors. Sagat needs a mid-screen scenario where he can create setups.

Currently without two bars, it’s very difficult to create a valuable mixup and this makes him less effective against characters who thrive in mid-screen battle or who can corner Sagat easily.

It wouldn’t be broken either as he would more or less only be able to land a forward hk from a tu fadc which requires two bars or an opponent’s jump in which is very hard to react to, so he wouldn’t have many opportunities to use it but when he did there would be more threat to fighting him in mid-screen.

-TIGER KNEE SHOULD ALWAYS HIT TWICE WHEN CLOSE
For example when you do certain combos into tiger knee on crouching characters the second hit of the knee misses. This has no reason to completely whiff right in front of the opponent the way it does. The worst part is that this leaves Sagat completely vulnerable and open to attack, this should be addressed.

-SAGAT’S TIGER UPPERCUT FADC PROPERTIES SHOULD BE REPAIRED
Currently sometimes tu fadc forward doesnt allow you to do much as follow-up because they cross up then appear back in front rendering you unable to utilise the ultra. Then in some cases after tu-fadc backdash nothing reaches, not ultra 1, not tiger knee, nothing.

-SAGAT’S HURTBOX ON AT LEAST ONE CROUCHING ATTACK SHOULD BE REDUCED TO AVOID THINGS
So that he isn’t such an easy target for setups.

-WHEN ANGRY SCAR STOPS THE SCREEN SAGAT SHOULD BE ABLE TO BLOCK INSTANTLY AFTER THE ANIMATION.
For example he could bait a wake up shoryu then block it by using the scar to mess up the timing so that the fadc doesn’t come out as they have already done the input when the screen stopped.

This costs a meter so it wouldn’t be over powered. This would at least for stupidly ambiguous setups and unblockables if he was able to block instantly as it would mess up the opponents timing but at the cost of meter.

-TIGER CANNON JUGGLE DAMAGE NEEDS A 15% INCREASE
Currently the tiger cannon juggle damage is pitiful. At times it’s over 100points less in comparison to Ultra 1 but then Ultra 1 doesnt even hit properly in certain situations so that ultra has its own problems. It seems that although Sagat has his fair share of knockdown issues the game is doing very well at nerfing Sagat on top of that.

BUT RYAN, WHAT WOULD THESE CHANGES TO DO SAGAT?

These changes would mean that Sagat would have a better chance against setup based characters which he currently suffers very badly against and he would be able to compete at the highest level efficiently. With that said each change would still have it’s risk so the player would need to be very skilled to produce results.


#19

LOL nice shoutout HW, definitely a plus to have one of the community managers main your character.


#20

Haha yeah… In regards to ryan harts suggestion some cool ideas. But i really just think that sagats slk dp dmg cmk hitbox and ultra glitches for both 1 and 2 should be fixed. the only other thing i really like to change is the hitbox of roundhouse(so its not so hard to hit some characters after dp with) and maybe sweep like sensei posted being 2 frames faster (that would be dope) other then that i feel no need for the rest oh well low tigershot one or two frame improvement. Apart from that i think sagat doesn’t need other stuff but thats just my view on it.