EDIT If you read earlier notes, they were probably wrong.
Okay, so some of the frame data in the video is wrong. Mainly because I was trying to do it from memory and didn’t know some of the facts off hand.
Here is the deal. A HTS does 30 frames of hit stun and a LTS does 31 frames of hit stun. I wanted to find a way to use that massive amount of hit stun and get a sick frame advantage and see what I could do. So I found this setup on my second try to find a way to land meaty Tiger Shots. I want to emphasize that this was my second attempt, so that maybe others will look for a similar setup.
Now, here is what I’m assuming in calculating the frame data:
1: There is 61 frames of grounded time from a back throw and the opponent is first able to be hit on frame 62. I am assuming this off of the apparent advantage to neutral state that you are in from Jiji’s back throw to crossup TK setup. If this is inaccurate, please let me know so that I can adjust my numbers
2: That there is in fact 31 frames of hit stun on a LTS.
- With that assumed, off of a back throw, Sagat placing a sweep on the first active frame possible and releasing a Tiger Shot the first frame possible after that on a crouching opponent will hit.
If all three are the case, then Sagat is going to be +15 on hit.
Now, on a standing opponent, a Low Tiger Shot of that precision will miss. So, adding a frame or two into this will lead to being about +13, but hit more consistently.
Since Sagat’s HTS has less recovery, his frame advantage SHOULD be higher, but it might not be. You have to add those extra one or two(maybe even 3) frames in for a HTS to hit, because it comes out a frame faster. But you will still be about +14 to +16 on hit (from what I could land and my calculations).
Now, you will be a considerable distance away, so your options on what you can hit with are your farthest reaching normals
Here is a basic instructions in case the video isn’t crystal clear:
after a back throw into a corner,
Use a sweep to set up proper timing (32 frames)
Then execute a jab HTS with up to 3 frames of delay (but probably one or two)
or a short LTS with up to 2 frames of delay
then follow it up however you wish.
Normals you can combo into that I’ve done:
You can do basically any combo after a C MK. Like a TS FADC combo, or into a EX TK, or probably into super. Play around with it. C Mk is difficult to land on standing opponents, but stupid easy on crouching.
Specials you can combo into that I’ve done:
I’ve only tried Ultra 2, but it lands successfully on a HTS.
I think you could:
Combo into a low step kick
Combo into standing short
Combo into EX TK as a true blockstring
Combo into super after standing HP or C MK
Combo into Ultra 1
I will keep this in the lab and see if there are any sweet character specific setups.
Now, there are many characters who you are forcing to sit there and take it in this situation (some no matter what, others if they are meterless). I haven’t tested which characters it works best on, but I have my suspicions. Keep in mind, that you can use this as a sweet frame trap opportunity, or to force an Ultra 2 chip. On Rufus, without meter, he HAS to block or get hit. And because of his big hit box, you can land a meaty HTS for max frame advantage and connect to ultra. If he is low on life, you can deal a good 45 chip damage from this alone and he can’t get out of it. Even if blocking the first one gives him meter, Ultra 2 hits him in block stun and he can’t reversal out of it, it is a true block string.
Here are the characters I suspect this would have a legitimate place against:
Dhalsim, Cody (maybe EX Bingo would beat it, but there could be potential option selects for this? will test), Chun (Without meter), Honda (Without meter), Blanka (without meter), Vega (not sure, but probably without meter), Bison (without meter), El Fuerte (without ultra?), Sakura (without super meter, but maybe potential option selects to beat her EX Shoryu), Rose (without meter), Guy (I think that even with meter, at that distance, there are options to beat his EX reversal.), Ibuki (without meter), Makoto (without her wall jump ultra), Rufus has no options without meter and HTS hits him crouching, I can’t see Abel having anything that would beat it except his ultras.
Keep in mind, all of my frame data is rough and I am basing it off of what I have tested. I could be a couple of frames off, but it seems that these combos are stupid easy. I’m gonna test other setups to see if I can find a couple of other ways to make these combos more practical.
I obviously need to put this to test in matches, but it can’t be a bad tool if some characters are forced to take it.