Sagat Combo Thread

sagat

#381

Not Sagat’s most damaging combo.

J.hp cl.mk cr.lp xxLTS fadc cl.mk cr.lp TU Does nearly 450 damage, but requires 2 one frame links.


#382

Oh nice staple block string! I was reading the USF4 Bible Strategy Guide and it was saying c. LK, c.LK, c. LP, Special Move was best. But, I am having lots of trouble with the c. LP to Tiger Uppercut, which is probably the most important special move to get out of block strings so I can FADC > Ultra.

First of all, I have only been using jump-in move, c. LK, c.LP, special move, since I find even that a bit challenging. But I keep getting standing LP when I try the Tiger Uppercut after the block string, and I know why. It’s obvious: when I press the forward for the f,d,df+HP to get the Tiger Uppercut, it registers as me inputting c. LK, f+LP cause I am holding forward for the Uppercut’s execution.

Really not sure how to resolve this issue. I like that block string with c. MP, but isn’t that a harder link? And so I need to plink the c.MP AND also the first c.LK? As of now, I just jump-in with my jump-in move, then do c.LK~LP to plink, then c.LP, QCF+K. I can do that really well, since it does not require a dragon punch motion, so I do not get standing LP by mistake.


#383

check out highland fireball’s sagat execution vid for this…quite helpful…link below:


#384

Good tip to always hold db while doing combos in general. I like to do that. I generally use c. LP in footsies wars, not c. LK, because of how c. LP is 3 frames in Ultra.

I should probably start using the two down-forwards+HP technique to Uppercut.

Isn’t it better to go for more damage with c. MP after the c. LK, c. LK? Isn’t c. LP -9 on block and c. MP -10?

Negative Edge, that does happen to me sometimes, giving me an unwanted QCF+P in combos. Holding down the LP button while I do the Uppercut seems good! I am learning so much!

I avoided using cara cancels for my Tiger Uppercuts for anti-airs because it always came out slow. I will always cara cancel with f+HK from now on, man, learning so much.

I never used Kara Cancels for my fireballs, I just figured I wanted to stay far away while throwing my shots. But, I guess getting closer to them is OK since Sagat is sort of himself becoming the fireball before he gets a chance to actually throw the fireball, making the fireball faster in that respect.

I often was getting unwanted Tiger Knees and/or Tiger Uppercuts when trying to Kara Cancel tiger Shots. I think there are a couple of reasons why this might have been going on. One, I was not waiting long enough for the fireball to disappear. Two, I was messing up the motion somehow. I think I should do Kara-Cancels for Shots like this:

QCF+LK, wait, f+LK,HCF+HP (2-hits)

I can actually get it to be a 2-hit combo if I time it right! But yeah, HCF+HP seems the best, or HCP+whatever button. But I assume you would want the fastest fireball and possibly an anti-air as well after throwing the slow Shot.

So anyway, long story short, am I right in saying that:

Jump-in HK, c. LK, c. MP, df,df+HP > FADC etc.

…is the better combo for a guy who keeps on missing the timing on the c. LP in the c. LK, c. LK, c. LP, df,df+HP combo? I honestly can not seem to get that combo down consistently, but by plinking with c.MP in the c. LK, c.MP, df,df+HP combo, I can hit is just about every time!


#385

Wait, scratch that! I am getting it now! I can use:

j. LK, c. LK, c. LK c. MP, df,df+HP

…by plinking into MP after both of the c. LKs!

This is so cool! I have been playing Street Fighter for DECADES, and I have never been able to hit combos like these before.

EDIT

BTW, he says in the video that it is best to always hold down-back in your crouching block string combos, but I suspect that when using moves like jump-in LK with Sagat, crossup moves, it might be better to hold down, not down-back. I say that because what if your opponent dashes back or is walking back and causes your j. LK to NOT crossup. So, you expected a crossup and you were holding down-forward to compensate for the crossup, but since your j. LK did not crossup, you are now holding df like a fool and you drop your combo.

But if you hold down, you option-select your crossup or non crossup, and you can just input df,df+P towards wherever your opponent is on the screen.

EDIT 2

Starting to think I should pick another character now that I know how to link well, lolz. Like, I get a jump-in with LK, I do c. LK, c. LK, c. MP, Tiger Knee, and the Tiger Knee gets BLOCKED? WTF is up with that? Cammy, Fei Long and Yun are looking better all the time. Or maybe even Ryu. Any reason to stick with Sagat? His jump-in game is weak. Not sure if I want to spend my life running away and throwing Tiger Shots, although that is what I have been doing, since I could not link up until now.

EDIT 3

Or, maybe I’m just getting physically tired…been playing USF4 Sagat all day! Think when I get up tomorrow morning I will look back at this as an amazingly productive day. Gonna try to get Trial #22 now.

But I get it. c. LK, c. MP does more damage, c. LK, c. LK, c. LP is more consistent.

BTW in trial #22, which is:

c. LK, c. MP, Low Tiger Shot > FADC > c. LK, c. MP, ex Uppercut

…what EXACTLY should I be doing with every button? Like to avoid getting unwanted things like High Tiger Shots, which I have been getting. And does it matter which version of Low Tiger Shot I use?


#386

c.lk to c.mp is a tighter link than using the jab. it does more damage, but the timing is tougher. also, depending on the character, an uppercut after c.lk, c.lk., c.mp can whiff.

if you are throwing a meaty low tiger shot to force someone to block as they are waking up, you can do the following kara cancel by just doing qcf+roundhouse and just hold the forward input (to do the regular forward roundhouse juggle kick). you can then just push the next input (whatever version of tiger shot you want to do) to cancel the forward roundhouse into the tiger shot. basically, you don’t have to go through the whole f+hk, hcf, button input. you are timing it so you begin the f+roundhouse while the current fireball is still on the screen (before they have blocked it) so the step kick comes out initially, but right after it starts coming out, they block the tiger shot, you push the next input, fireball comes out.

sorry for that terrible explanation.


#387

No not terrible at all, actually happy someone responded so it’s not just me and my wall of text!

I was in practice mode for awhile and I think I find c. LK, c. LK, c. LK > special move to be actually easier than with c. LP for the third hit. Probably because I can keep the rhythm of my plinking constant: c. LK~LP, c. LK~LP, c. LK~LP, I do not have to think about changing my button over to MP or LP. I also used to play lots of CVS2, and my standard combo with Akuma, who I used a lot in that game, was c. LK, c. LK, QCB+LK to get the 2-hit close version QCB+LK, then uppercut or super. So, maybe it’s just me going back to my old roots. I also find it easier to visually confirm whether the third c. LK will be able to hit and still be in range than c. LP. c. LP has kind of a weird looking animation, I think, hard to tell. But with c. LK, just keep your eyes on Sagat’s outstretched leg, and it’s fairly easy to just see if the second hit hit at the tip range and adjust your combo accordingly.

Been playing lots of matches, and I tend to just stick to jump in with whatever, c. LK, c. LP, QCF+K. But I hope to replace that combo with c. LK, c. LK, c. LK, QCF+K.

Why is it that people use c. LK, c. LK, c. LP, anyway? Isn’t it easier just to do c. LK three times, then special move? I feel like Shin Akuma when I use that combo, it looks way cooler to me than c. LK, c. LK, c. LP.

But yeah, I get it that c. LK, c. LK, c. MP has way more pushback. But Sagat can whiff the third hit of c. LK, c. LK, c. LP after a jump-in, it’s not THAT much more consistent. It is more consistent of course though.

I like c. LK over c. LP since it is a true low attack, too. So maybe I get my jump-in blocked, then do c. LK, c. LK, both blocked, then have a small pause, then do c. LK, QCF+K. Just seems better to stick to true lows. Sagat does have an overhead!

Is the plinking button supposed to be LP? I was using MP to plink but I feel like using LP is better since I need the MP for the MP+MK FADC.

EDIT

Oh forgot to talk about Kara Cancelling. TBH I just tend to stick to regular fireballs and moves. If they are out of range of Uppercut, I just use Tiger Knee instead, which has more range. Less damage, though, so it would be optimal for me to use f+HK, uppercut tho.

I also face lots of Abels and Dudleys who have moves that they can use to go through fireballs on wakeups. So If I try a Kara, I might just whiff a f+HK or f+LK, because, since they went through the fireball, they did not block it, and the fireball is still on the screen, messing up my timing.

BTW, does using a f+HK make the Ultra scale way more in FADC combos?


#388

I’m a straight nub (played a bit of vanilla and only started Ultra with the PC release) but most of what you’re asking doesn’t require advice from a good player.

cr. LP reaches further than cr. LK so that makes the cr. LK, cr. LK, cr. LP string work at more ranges than triple cr.LK will. You are also more likely to get reversal’d out of triple cr. LK because of the frame gap between the second and third attack making regular use of this string dangerous whereas cr. LK into cr. LP is a true block string. On-hit and assuming you’re in range it makes no difference, though. cr. LK, cr. LP, cr. LP is not used because the extra jab will tend to push people out of TU range and also because it’s a 1 framer on the last jab which can punish you hard if you happen to miss it and cancel into TU. cr. LK, cr. LK, cr. LP has a nice 2-frame trap right at the beginning (which is usually when people can’t react with reversals fast enough and when they tend to mash normals) and is just more solid all around with its range and reliability. Ideally you’d mix up the frame gaps in your confirms in addition to doing the max damage confirms at the correct ranges or screen positions from time to time (which are cr. LK, cr. LK, cr. MP xx HP TU and cr. LK, cr. LK, cr. LP xx HK TK). Also, 2-hit confirms of cr. LK/cr. LP, cr. LP xx TU/TS at further ranges are helpful to have in your arsenal.

Generally speaking and assuming you won’t whiff the kick, f+HK into U1 or U2 will increase the overall damage of the combo over just the raw ultra. The Ultra damage you give up for the extra attack in a combo varies between 30-37 (depending on which one you’re using and how many hits don’t whiff on the U1) and f+HK will usually deal more than that even when scaled.


#389

I have been using jumping LK almost always. I just like how it has a crossup ability. Air to air, I have been using jumping HP. I used to use jumping HK ALL THE TIME, but I resonsidered. The damage boost of 10 points is not worth having j. HK get beat out ALL THE TIME by tho opponent’s quicker jumping attacks.

I use jump-in attack, then c. LK, c. LP into a special move. I never use c. MK. Is that bad? Maybe I should use c. MK. I always used to use Ryu and just did j. HK, c. MK, Fireball, but I felt that combo was scrubby, despite how it has great range and consistency.

I like how, even if your jump-in gets blocked, if you use c. LK, c. LP, or c. LK, c. LK, c. LP as your post jump-in combo, you can hit confirm your combo for the TU. I do want to learn to do that. And thanks for the tip on the frames and spacing of c. LK, c. LK, c. LP combo VS c. LK x3. I was unaware that c. LP had straight up more range. Kind of a weird looking move, c. LP.

I have been having issues with my FADC combos crossing up after the Tiger Uppercut. If that happens, I can get an Angry Charge, wasting a meter, or another whiff. Is it always best to FADC with a backdash? I personally think it is.

There are other opportunities to get an Ultra after another move too, right? Like after an EX Uppercut anti-air? Does it need to be VS an airborne opponent? And also if Sagat trades with his opponent with an anti-air Tiger Uppercut. I have to say, it seems like Tiger Uppercut has a VERY SMALL invincibility window. I seem to trade less often if I hit the Uppercut later in its animation, whhen Sagat is high in the air. It also does more damage then, right?

I have been using lots of backdashes in my Tiger Shots throwing. It might seem kinda obvious, but, using a backdash here and there, like after throwing a couple of Shots and you think they might jump towards Sagat, simply works wonders! I have also been using VS gatting up opponents QCF+LK for a meaty slow Shot, then f+LK > HCF+HK. I use HCF because I tend to get an unwanted Tiger Knee if I only do QCF. But, that does work really well. Then, maybe a backdash into a QCF+HK!

Standing LP is an amazing move as well, kind of a fake-out.


#390

you get the angry scar charge often when you hit the opponent on counter hit. They do this crazy spinning animation as they twirl through the air and if you forward dash then they cross you up and it messes up your input. forward dash is still the best option to take as it guarantees that the ultra will connect fully (if you are using ultra 1) ultra 2 connects regardless of forward or back dash, but the damage is pretty bad on that ultra. Best thing to do is uppercut and wait a split second then enter the ultra command. If its a counter hit, forget about doing the forward roundhouse and just go straight ultra.

you can hit ultra 1 with an ex uppercut whether airborne or straight from the ground. just remember that different characters have different properties. Hakan is very easy to get with this because he has a floaty fall, as opposed to gief who falls much faster. The link is kinda finicky but if you practice it you should be able to execute it with reasonable consistency.

you can forward high kick into ultra off of almost any tiger uppercut trade. sometimes they end up flying too far away and the ultra wont connect fully, but hey…that’s the way it is.


#391

I see. Anything free after f+HP overhead? I think jumping in with a HP is leaps and bounds better than j. HK. j. HK takes forever to execute. Think I should get into the habit of using j. HP all the time. Anything off of regular Uppercut but on counter-hit?


#392

in my experience, a counter hit uppercut is more detrimental than beneficial for sagat, due to the twirl animation that the characters go through after being counter hit. I would much prefer to land a regular uppercut. If you are asking what you could do after a counter uppercut, the only thing that comes to mind is FADC into ultra, without the forward high kick.

Alternatively you could fadc backdash and add the forward high kick into ultra (this only works if the dp counters the opponent)

If you hit a cammy or a viper at the peak of their jumps with a regular lp dp, you can go straight into ultra without fadc (pretty tight though…doable still)

Oh and just remembered, you can do a tiger knee to hit the opponent’s juggle state after a counter hit TU. Wont do much damage, but will send them to the other side of the screen for zoning.


#393

So…

low step kick/ cr lp./ tiger shot/ FADC/ stand hk cancelled into HK tiger knee = Damage 280/ 2 bars of meter

Why isn’t this combo getting any love? Haven’t tried it in a match yet, but it does more damage than any lk step kick variation costing 2 bars.

Sure there’s a reason…let me know if you know.


#394

I’d imagine you’d have range problems against a ton of characters. Unless you are using it point blank.


#395

Yeah…thought that might be it. It’s just odd that i have never seen it used at all. Thought there might be more of a disadvantage than the range thing. I did think about the stand hk not being cancellable if done at max range, but it works fine on crouching opponents from outside point blank, the fact that the step kick forces stand also makes the TK connect with 2 hits.


#396

You don’t see it used much just because there’s rarely an opportunity to use it in a match. Usually Sagats don’t do f. LK at such a close enough distance that they can follow up with an FADC into cl. HK xx Tiger Knee without either the TK or roundhouse whiffing.

Usually you can only end up doing cr. MK/MP xx TU but sometimes you’re close enough to cancel into TK. Also cl. HK will whiff on some characters after a fire ball FADC even when point-blank.

Technically, if the spacing allowed you to do the combo you mentioned you could have actually done a tad more damage by ending with FADC into cl. MK, cr. LP xx TU instead which totals 290. The cl. MK whiffs on a few characters but cl. HK whiffs on those as well.

And it’s not really correct to think of it like 280 damage for 2 bars. If you were close enough to do that combo you most likely could have done the meterless f. LK, cr. LP xx TU/TK which do 176/208 respectively. So it’s more like you’re buying an extra 104 or 72 damage for 2 bars which is still pretty decent if you compare it to the other ways Sagat spends meter to deal extra damage.


#397

Thanks for the input swarn. I knew about the stand mk after the fadc that you mentioned. Just didnt seem practical as it necessitated another one framer in the middle of the combo after the fadc and the damage was just an extra ten points.

I can connect an lp into ts fairly reliably after an lk step kick, however i cant do it nearly as reliably with a TU ender.


#398

hey guys,

So Im finding that as i use sagat and get more experienced, a lot of my damage depends on capitalizing off my opponents’ mistakes. i.e. throw shots and if he jumps dp. Wait for a chance to whiff punish or wait for a careless dp etc so i could punish. Granted this is how the character archetype is (sagat is basically a reactive and defensive character) but this also means that i am almost at the mercy of my opponents because if they play solid, then it is an uphill battle.

Basically what i am saying is that I dont have a plan to be offensive with sagat (besides zoning with shots of course). I need to add something in my arsenal to give the opponent something to think about, rather than me constantly trying to thwart what he is doing.

I watch bonchan and he almost always dashes in and cr mp into an fadc combo, but this never works online or against other opponents because as soon as you dash in, they either jump and cross you up or mash cr jab and jab you out before your cr mp comes out.

Any ideas or strategies would be welcome.


#399

I find the more I zone, the more my opponents stand outside of your poke range and crouch block/wait for a shot. If I notice it, I space myself for either a

dash in cr. lp, cr. lk, cr.mp or cr.mk xx TS, MK Tiger Knee or dash up throw. Dash up throws work more than anything because they’re just gonna be down backing

If I notice they are jumping my dash ins, then I just chill around that range and pump fake.

TBH I don’t think my strategy is the best though. I try to watch Bonchan videos and try to guess when he’s gonna do it but I can’t get a sense of when he’s gonna do it.


#400