sagat vs sagat


#1

I don’t understand what i’m supposed to go for in this matchup.

Either C sagat vs C sagat or C sagat vs K sagat.

Who should win between C vs K?

Basically I start standing fiercing and crouching fiercing, making a mockery of cvs2, adding a standing lk here and there, start doing low tiger shots.

Eventually i’ll get impatient and do jump roundhouse, low short, low forward low fireball.

If i’m in K groove, i’ll start smalling jumping roundhousing.
If i’m in C groove, i’ll start doing roll into low short/throw/tiger uppercut


#2

i feel if c sagat starts the match with full bar, he should win. but honestly, the match can go either way.

generally, c sagat will tend to play a very controlled game. most k sagat’s are kamikaze rushers, myself included.

reg, super, and lj jump round house are great when done from proper distance. don’t knock it. doing it when sagat has meter is a bad idea though. you will eat a super.

also, cross up jumping lk is one of the nastiest cross ups in the game. if you get a knockdown, use it. you can also do it with lj if your timing is good. if it connects, bnb or combo into super if you can. if not, work the guard. sagat is all about being able to link his jabs and lk. i know a lot of people will say cr fp is his best tool, but up close, cr lk is the shit. learn it and you’ll see yourself winning a lot more.

if both sagat’s are of comparable skill, it will come down to poking and who can link into super first. it’s just the way it is.

i’ll try and post more soon. i love sagat vs sagat matches. playing them, not watching them. watching them sucks.


#3

Also dont forget, cross up short (lk), st.jab x3, c.forward, is free chip damage for both grooves.

Also, in K, run c.fierce is good, if you’re raged, link into Tiger cannon.

Also when raged, try run and random c.forward, if it hits, do Tiger cannon, or tiger raid.

I play K Sagat and C Sagat (non RC)

In C groove: if you have meter (especially 3 bars) your chance of winning that battle (assuming both are same ratio) is higher than the K groove Sagat (assuming he has no meter to begin the match)

Its all about the situation.


#4

Yeah, that’s some pretty ugly strategy. No matter what you go for after a roll, good players will still hit you everytime before your move even comes out. Try this instead…

Walk up, one hit s.LK (to set your opponent up into making a mistake). Now if the other Sagat knows you want to s.LK him, he can stick out a one hit far s.MK before you get in range for your s.LK. If you know the other Sagat wants to stick out a one hit far s.MK, you can roll through for a free throw or s.LP combo. If the other Sagat knows you want to roll through his possible s.MK, then he can wait, then use d.MK to punish your roll. If he’s just waiting there for your roll, you’ll be able to walk up one hit s.LK him.

See how all that works? No matter what move you go for, there’s always a counter the opponent can do. There’s always a move you can use to counter your opponent’s counter too. It’s all one big rock, paper, scissors game really. Don’t limit yourself by just using rock all the time (ie. always trying to roll in d.LK/dp/throw).

Always have a gameplan ready before you go on the attack, try to get your opponent to make the first mistake, and always punish the opponent hard when he does make that mistake. Oh yeah, learn what moves counter what too asap (ie. a roll counters a far s.MK, a qcf+LK counters a d.HP, a jump-in counters qcf+LK, etc…).


#5

hm i see, i’ve also been watching some videos.

Yeah, I use standing short, but i have no idea what it does, it looks like a weak move. I’m just in the attacking rush that shit mode lol.

I thought roll tiger uppercut beats out limbs people stick out.

what i’m gathering from your post kcxj, is that i should be more patient and wait for people to commit to do something, and react to it.

it gets kinda tiring walking back and forth doing fierces and shorts, i get impatient and just want to attack so i start doing random rolls. but yeah thax for the advice.

right now my teams are
p vega/xxx/cammy
p rolento/cammy/sagat
c groove xxx/chun li/sagat

xxx I want to learn roll cancels, who has good roll cancels that you can whore?

and basically my chun li is try to land super via repeated crossup j. shorts, roll into jab, jab strong super, any other tipcs for her?


#6

Guile


#7

Sak, Blanka, and Guile all have great RC’s, but no RC’s are really whoreable if you’re playing good comp. If you’re playing scrubs (you probably are) you can whore RC Hurricanes, RC Elec, and RC Sonic booms all you want :lol: .


#8

C-sagat vs C-sagat?

bait the other person’s standing fierce, then standing fierce in their recovery xx level 2 xx level 1.

BEAST


#9

Stop trying to learn RC’s. If you’re basing your entire Chun-li gameplan around roll, jab, jab, d.MP xx super, you need to fix that shit ASAP. Either make friends with a good player and have him teach you how to use Chun, watch some videos of good Chun players, or go to the “character specific” forum and read what other people here wrote about Chun.

Learn how to throw hcf+MP and hcf+HP fireballs. Anti-air with d.HK whenever the other guy jumps at you. If he does an air move that your d.HK will not beat, you do jump forward double HP/airthrow instead. Whenever you’re in range, do far s.MP xx hcf+MP. Whenever the other guy rolls, do d.MP xx super if you’re far, punch throw if you’re walking forward or already close. If the opponent does something stupid where you get a free hit after (ex. Sagat messed up his throw and got close s.HP instead), do far s.MP xx super.

Roll, combo x n, j.LK x n will work against scrubs and scrubs only. Once you’re play against even a semi-skilled player, you’re going to get frustrated because your strategies won’t work anymore. Start learning how to play non-scrubby right now (and STOP trying to learn RC until you do… Sagat and Chun don’t even need RC anyway), and you’ll be setting yourself up to be a great player in the long run.


#10

I think maybe you should quit playing fighting games and start playing DDR if you are looking for mindless movement and shittiness. Its a common misconception that fighting game are all about rushing and attacking like a moron. Every single fighting game at a decently high level of play requires patience and good mind games… its just like boxing. You watch two shitty boxers, they just attack retardedly, and one gets dropped. You watch two high level boxers (at least in the olden days)… they have alot of mindgames and don’t leave themselves wide open. You don’t commit to knockout punches, when you don’t know they are going to hit, because you will be left open. Similarly in fighting games, it goes for jumping and rolling etc. But scrubs want to mash. Why ask for advice, if you are just looking to mash on buttons?


#11

kcxj: oh i definitely know about c.rh anti air, and poke with s. strongxxkikoken. that’s in between the roll and crossups. of course i don’t jump mindlessly and predictably. i’ll walk back and forth and wait for the opportunity. I definitely have watched cvs2 vids, friend let me borrow evo disk recently . and i don’t think i’ x copying, but it looks like most chuns are the same, go to jab jab strong super. I was simply asking if there is more than that (aside from c.rh anti air, and s/c. strong zoning.

cheesmaster: ok wait, i don’t get it, so you’re saying i shouldn’t play patient and react to what they’re doing, but instead keep playing the way i’m playing?

I don’t think so cuz you basically said what i said, but sounding negative and bashing me for being new.

of course i’m not mashing, being on srk shows i’m not a masher. but i’m saying what i mostly see is people using shorts and fierces (sagat vs sagat), and hence i’m doing the same.

I’ve mostly been playing mvc2 lately for the past year but that shit is getting hella boring, so trying cvs2 and 3rd strike. cvs2 seems a little easier to learn and since i have 3 characters, the matches will last longer.


#12

Well there are some things that are in these vids that you’re not seeing because you don’t have a street fighter mindset yet. What you’re probably seeing in a sagat match is to sagats throwing around jabs then punching each other, but it’s more than that. What you didn’t see is that the jabs were used to bait the fierce in order to punish it. Footsies are about mind games and baiting stuff then punishing accordingly. With chun li especilly if you plan on playing c chun, there is a very important technique you should know: hit confirmation. Ever wonder why the top Us and Japanese chuns almost never get a blocked kick super? It’s because they input the super motion (qcf x2) while they do the move. Lets take chun’s s.mp for example, you might see a chun poking away with s.mp, well that’s not just to be annoying. If it hits the player can react on the hit and just have to press mk, giving him a free super. This takes time to learn well enough to fully impliment it into your game (I can’t do it well :/) but without having to worry about blocked supers, you can always capitalize on potential damage opprotunities.


#13

i think certain players like kcjx and cheese_master have been living in theory fighter land waaaaaaaaaay too long.

if u think the state of SF is still like it was back in the 90’s then u’ve been living under a rock.

CVS2 is the new SF where OG tactics and gay tactics come together with intuition and good hands. Sure, it’s nice to be a solid gamer and not do stupid shit all the time like roll, whatever. But to say STOP THIS SHIT IMMEDIATELY like its some terrible tactic that good ppl always destroy? Nigga PLZ. Roll super with Sagat is not just a good tactic…its fucking CHEAP. He has one of the best rolls in teh game, combined with one of the most damaging lvl2 cancels in the game. And you’re telling him to stop that shit? I say WHORE that shit.

Ppl who think CVS2 and other new SF’ers are still about playing safe and by the book need to get a clue. This is the new age of SF, where u can whore jumps, u can whore fierce attacks and not be punished, u can pass through a ground game with the press of jab+short, and u can build ur super up in 10 seconds.

Get a clue.


#14

if u play some one that is decent or better or a scrub that knows how to roll ull get smoked by anyone, dont be a retard


#15

YOU ARE A FUCKING RETARD

let’s look at SBO finals last year to get ANOTHER reminder of scrub tactics vs patience. daigo’s C-sagat gets impatient and roll supers against tokido’s A-sakura. tokido, being a smart player, blocks it. wasted super and seals the deal for tokido. look at how many ill-advised RC’s tokido does…NONE. what wins the match for tokido? patience and solid footsies. sakura’s roll cancels are abusable to a point, but then the shit starts hitting the fan real quick. for another reminder, look for when tokido plays morikawa. after morikawa gains a fat lead, tokido’s patient A-blanka is able to win the match by tick throwing morikawa many times (OG tactic to the fullest).

look at how many times justin wong does stupid shit while playing cvs2. hmmmm, NEVER. he doesn’t even roll cancel, which should generate so much respect. footsies, plain and simple.

when i saw ricky ortiz play at midwest challenge, he played C-CBS in the finals against combofiend. did i see any secret new tactics/gimmicks? nope, just flawless execution, seemingly impeccable footsies, and lots of patience.

RISK VS REWARD IS FUNDAMENTAL TO EVERY STREET FIGHTER, INCLUDING CVS2.

edma said it best once- gimmicks win matches, footsies and solid strategy win tournaments.

and you’ve ruined too many threads in the past by presenting flawed arguments and then making yourself look even dumber. if you want to play me at midwest championships or evolution, i’d be more than happy to take your money. put your money where your mouth is, and you’ll get a lesson in cvs2 the way it should be played.

ggpo


#16

I play choi and Ricky alot and they roll super all day with sagat!


#17

you guys have been using the word footsies a lot, exactly what does this mean?

I’ve been reading, and from what i understand, you wait for your opponent to attack, and then retaliate with your best poke in their recovery? and you can do this by baiting with light attacks correct?

at least somewhat correct, i’d always thoguht that was called turtling? pretty much everyone has said to be patient and not rush too much right?

but yeah when i play chun li (usually 2nd), i think i’ll slow down on the sj crossups and try to wait and s./c. mp xxsuper everything instead.


#18

Setting somebody to your ignore list blanks out their post, but their name still shows up whenever they do post. Even worse, if you select “show printable version” (so you can save a thread to your hard drive) the person’s post shows up in it’s entirety!

Is there any way to make it so anything to do with the person never shows up at all? As if he never even made the post in the first place? I’m tired of Geese making these troll posts so he can jerk off when we get into arguments with him. He has to quote my name of all things too…


#19

It’s something like that. Go to training mode and try ths demonstration to give you a better understanding:

Kyo vs dummy Blanka

Record Blanka doing d.HP, set him to “all blocking”, then press play. Now with Kyo, stand just outside the range of that d.HP. Blanka will clearly whiff whenever the d.HP comes out.

You’re standing at that magic range now right? Good. Now on REACTION to whenever you see Blanka’s d.HP come out, press Kyo d.HK. See how you just hit Blanka from like half screen away?

Normally your Kyo d.HK would of totally whiffed. But since Blanka stuck out a d.HP first, he extended his hitbox so your d.HK can hit him in his recovery.

Footsies is mostly all stuff like that. Know the max range on all the moves your opponent is most likely to throw out, how far your own moves go out, and all the instances where you can do “magic” half screen d.HK’s like the Kyo example I listed above.


#20

The match between Daigo and Tokido has forever changed the way CVS2 is played. Turtling joystick jigglefest! Sorry but I just had to make this random comment.