SAII/SAIII What characters?

After a year of using SAIII, I wanna learn how to use SAII. What characters though should I use SAII or SAIII against and for what reasons? BTW: Who was that beasting oro players at evo that I saw, he had a beard and was kinda short with glasses. You have mad execution unknown oro player.

That player was most likely either Hungbee or Josh-TheFunkDOC. I’ll join them in my “debut” at Evo2k5. :wink:

Here are my opinions for what super art to pick against whom. Of course, they’re subject to change without notice, heh.

Alex: Yagyou Dama works well here since Oro can cross Alex up in the corner for some easy unblockables. Landing a close Strong against Alex is not as difficult as it is against certain other characters, so EX Tengu juggles and midscreen unblockables are both quite feasible. My opinion: Yagyou 50%, Tengu 50%.

Yang: Yang and Yun are both immune to the chicken combo midscreen unless they’re slightly in the air when the first close Strong connects (eg. parried divekick, jump-in air chicken). This makes midscreen unblockables a lot more difficult to perform, requiring you to land a 2-hit Strong, walk up, and cancel another Strong into Yagyou. And if that wasn’t enough, the twins can’t be crossed up in the corner. Furthermore, Tengu Stone just might save your ass in a pinch against Seiei Enbu, Genei Jin, and divekick rushdown in general. My opinion: Yagyou 0%, Tengu 100%.

Ken: This won’t be easy no matter what super art you choose, but landing a close Strong can still reasonably happen here. Further, Ken will keep Oro on the defensive most of the time; a landed close Strong into chicken combo into Yagyou will almost always lead to an unblockable (in other words, you shouldn’t worry too much about Ken hitting the corner). On the other hand, landing that close Strong will almost always lead to a big fat Tengu juggle unless you’ve landed it practically at the beginning of the match. And finally, Ken’s tendency to rush Oro down on the ground can work in your favor: throw the fool into the corner and pressure with regular Tengu. My opinion: Yagyou 40%, Tengu 60%.

Sean: Chances are this match will mainly be fought midscreen. Sean has some decent pokes and the threat of Short Short super or parry into low Forward super, but Oro can pretty much jump with impunity. Yagyou will be somewhat more effective against Sean than against Ken, but not by much. My opinion: Yagyou 50%, Tengu 50%.

Twelve: I’ve only played ths matchup a few times, but I do know that Oro can pretty much chase Twelve around the screen without worrying too much. Still, it’ll be a loooong match. Although Twelve can be crossed up in the corner, chances are that Twelve’s not going to stay there willingly without some rocks to hold that shit. My opinion: Yagyou 30%, Tengu 70%.

Hugo: I’m wary about getting too close to this fool. It doesn’t help any that Hugo’s completely immune to the chicken combo outside the corner. However, his lack of mobility makes him a sucker for ghetto Yagyou unblockables. By this I mean shoot a fireball and supercancel it, then superjump to the other side of Hugo and go to town. If he dashes back, even better: the big guy can be crossed up in the corner. As far as rocks go, you can pretty much activate them as soon as you get the meter and not worry too much… but you never know when you might eat an SPD or Gigas between two poorly-timed attacks while pressuring. Hammer Mountain can also blow through rocks most of the time if you’re not careful. My opinion: Yagyou 80%, Tengu 20%.

Ibuki: I don’t have all that much experience playing against her, but I believe she doesn’t have all that much for anti-air. Landing a jump-in air chicken after knocking her down is probably your best shot at landing a close Strong unless she’s being really predictable. With a regular Tengu activated, Ibuki will have a really tough time not taking damage. My opinion: Yagyou 20%, Tengu 80%.

Makoto: Perhaps one of the matchups I’m most familiar with. Due to Oro’s size and stun meter, you’ll usually face her Seichusen over her Abare… giving her all the more reason to rush that shit down. Oro can hold his ground really well against her with his ducking Fierce, but not advance. Thus, Oro’s way more likely than Makoto to get cornered. But what happens then? Since the bitch is so random, answer her with either a throw into the corner or a well-guessed parry. In the first case, Tengu pressure that shit. In the second case, chicken combo into either EX Tengu for 50-65% or Yagyou for a potential 100%. Between these two, though, I’d opt for the Tengu. My opinion: Yagyou 40%, Tengu 60%.

Elena: On the one hand, she can be crossed up in the corner. On the other hand, it’s tough to get her in a chicken combo unless she does something stupid like Rhino Horn or Mallet Smash. I’m really split here, especially since I’ve only played this matchup like once in my life. My opinion: Yagyou 50%, Tengu 50%.

Necro: Like Elena, Necro can be crossed up in the corner. Like Elena, it can be tough to land a chicken combo unless I parry or block and red-parry a drill or tornado hook. Like Elena, I’ve only played this matchup once in my life. My opinion: Yagyou 50%, Tengu 50%.

Chun-Li: The chances of you launching this bitch are slim to none unless you get a lucky opening like a jump-in air chicken after knocking her down (how did you knock her down?) or blocking her Houyoku Sen. Like Makoto, she’s probably going to corner you after she finds out that her turtling is doing no damage to you (granted, she’ll be happy with charging her meter). So if you get a big opening for a chicken combo, you can 100% her ass with Yagyou. However, throwing her into the corner is and activating regular Tengu is more realistic though less rewarding. My opinion: Yagyou 20%, Tengu 80%.

Dudley: This guy can be a sucker for chicken combos unless he sticks to his ground game really well. The kicker here is that not only can he be crossed up in the corner, but his midscreen unblockable doesn’t need as much room as the other characters; you just need one dash. For these reasons, I’d give Yagyou the nod. My opinion: Yagyou 80%, Tengu 20%.

Urien: Yeah, he can be crossed up in the corner. But be careful with your corner unblockable attempts unless he doesn’t have meter; a PP Aegis will reflect the Yagyou and mess it all up. Furthermore, it’s tough to get close to Urien between his anti-airs (ducking Fierce, Fierce sphere, etc.) and his ground pokes (especially that damn standing Fierce). Regular Tengu works pretty well against him since you can destroy an Aegis with one Roundhouse (storing an active hitbox in the rocks in the process) and pressure him effectively. Still, Urien may be one of the only characters where pressuring with EX fireballs can actually work. All in all, it’s a tough fight unless you’re patient. My opinion: Yagyou 30%, Tengu 70%.

Q: This could very well be Oro’s best matchup. It’s relatively easy to launch this fool and stick him in the corner… but he can’t be crossed up once he’s there. Taking all this into account, Tengu’s the clear choice. My opinion: Yagyou 10%, Tengu 90%.

Oro: I… don’t… know! :eek: Even more so than Twelve, perhaps, an Oro mirror match will most likely take place almost entirely in the middle of the stage. Thus, both Tengu and Yagyou are viable. My opinion: Yagyou 50%, Tengu 50%.

Akuma: Long story short, you’re not going to land a single unblockable on this guy thanks to his teleport. What a shame, too, that he’s the only shoto that can be crossed up in the corner. At least you can EX Tengu his ass if you chicken combo him or at least chase and smack him with a free Roundhouse if he escapes your corner regular Tengu pressure. My opinion: Yagyou 0%, Tengu 100%.

Remy: I don’t really have a clue how well Yagyou would work on him, but Tengu always did the job in the past… If I had to give percents on this, I’d say Yagyou 30%, Tengu 70%.

Ryu: Pretty much the same as Ken in terms of Oro’s super art effectiveness from what I’ve experienced, except that you’re somewhat more likely to corner Ryu than Ken. My opinion: Yagyou 30%, Tengu 70%.

Yun: See Yang, but worse. My opinion: Yagyou 0%, Tengu 100%.

Gill: Who cares? Yagyou or Tengu, you lose.

This is pretty much off the top of my head. Feel free to disagree while giving the reason and I’ll be likely to concede the point to you. :slight_smile:

I just plain don’t like Tengu.

One unblockable Akuma can’t teleport out of is the c.fp xx yagyou corner reset. Besides Akuma’s always getting dizzy and it’s fun to irritate him with random ex fireballs, and punish ducked hurricane kicks with ex uppercut xx yagyou unblockable goodness.

I consider resets to be completely different than unblockables. Otherwise, Sean has an unblockable!

Also, I have yet to see a single reliable EX uppercut XX Yagyou unblockable, let alone one that works on Akuma. What exactly do you do?

Hell I figured you’d know and could help me out. I don’t have any reliable one’s either. I usually do a jump rk and try to cross over, but I suppose that’s all garbage on Akuma.

You know what’s also great though? EX chicken kicks. EX chicken pretty much shuts down any ground fireball action.

Thank’s Jinrai for the long page, hahaha seems like though I’m pretty safe with just using Tengu since it owns most characters. Cause with Tengu, if I feel like I can’t land a mp then I just scrub out and activate to go for blocked strings. Even blocked strings that arn’t in the corner and people get scared. If you do a blocked string that’s not in the corner and then jump with mk at crossup range to get in, people will still block cause they’re just plain scared of Tengu (to my experience if you hit the mk early cross up, the rest of the rocks will still cover your ass). With Yagu though, can you just throw it out and use it like a creeping Aegis? Cause usually people are scared of that too cause I’ll let it creep so it hits them, do an overhead while it’s hitting and then mk into command throw.

Anyways I digress right now but here were my Evo escapades with Oro. In my pool I swept 4-0 but I had to work for it because they were all Kens. It’s a good thing though they were all scrubs who kinda knew what they were doing but not really. Then in winners semi-finals the next day the first person I played was Raoh, the best Chun-li in Japan. I was like…fuuuuuuuuuckkk. He owned me hard, I tried to rush him down until he got meter, and then when he got meter I got scared and just blocked all day. Hungbee was watching my match and I was like, hey, what the fuck do you do against Chun-li after I lost. He told me that Chun-bitch is Oro’s worst match up and the only thing you can do is wait for mistakes. Fat fucking chance from Japan’s best Chun player. After that, I got knocked into losers and fate behold, I had to play Hungbee, which is arguably the best Oro player in America. Like an idiot I played Oro against him and I lost, 1-2. I played Oro like an idiot knowing full well that Ken’s low strongs rape Oro. Fuck. Anyways I had fun though, but jesus christ, in semi’s I had the worst luck. Hahahaha.

Evil: I don’t like the EX uppercut XX Yagyou setup at all, really. Not only can’t I find any good follow-ups, but it’ll get you killed if it’s blocked; there’s plenty of time for the opponent to punish you while Oro’s starting up, wasting 1 1/2 stocks and losing a lot of life.

As for EX chicken kicks, they can be useful from across the screen but risky as hell if you react too slowly. What I do is jump toward the shoto when I anticipate a fireball. If I guessed right, I smack them with a jumping :hk: into either chicken combo or close :mk: XX :hcb: :hp: , depending on my distance. If I guessed wrong, I double jump to safety.

AllMighty: Yagyou is good for variety, as long as you use it on characters I listed above with a high Yagyou percent. Against Ken, you can beat his ducking :mp: with your far standing :mp: . Just be careful with it so that Ken doesn’t smack you out of its retracting frames.

And I agree with Hung 100% on Chun-Li. :frowning: My goal for this year, before I go to Evo2K5, is to get a good enough handle on the Oro/Ken and Oro/Chun matchups to try to overcome the imbalance.

Yeah, Oro’s standing strong I noticed hits a lot of shit, but instead of abusing that move, I abuse standing and low forward a lot, more standing forward just cause it’s so fast. I usually just use standing strong to mix up the pokes, but it’s really good, better than standing forward sometimes. I barley use standing rh, only if I really want to concetrate on stunning someone, but usually, I’ll only get into standing forward range. Low fierce is really meaty, and I kinda like it too but I dunno how to use it well. So I guess my main question is, since I know how to use low and standing forward, how to I harness the true powers of standing strong, low fierce and standing rh?

there are lots of good mixups with close s.strong/forward and cr.forward… u can do stuff like s.strong(1hit) xx mk chicken > jab reset > dash to other side > cr.forward and command grab

far s.strong is a good poke, but not much follow up. u can try meaty s.foward xx command grab. if it’s blocked, throw out an EX uppercut… it almost always get them

The command grab is not safe at all if blocked. It has roughly the same frame disadvantage as a shoto sweep, and we all know how bad those are.

Click here for a 3S frame data site since karathrow is down.

Yeah, um I already know all that Oro mix-up booshit, chicken combos and bla bla bla. If you’re going to go high, I would just try for a mp launcher into chicken, if you go low, low forward into command grab, but both of those are not safe. Realisticlly many characters are better at keeping you out, so I stay in at about the standing forward footsie range to throw out standing forwards to poke them. Standing strong is really good too, I’ve never seen people punish that shit, even try to parry it cause I don’t throw it in their faces over and over. Low fierce though is a new one, I don’t know how to use it that well. At super high level play though, guessing with big consequeces like that will get you fucked hard, you don’t wanna have to guess by throwing random meaties into whatever.

that was joshthefunkDOC, he is quite beastly.

Basically, my super decision making process revolves around the following:
The absolutely no unblockables under any circumstances class:
Akuma (Teleports), Chun li (Ugh), Yun/Yang, Hugo (Not a fan of ghetto unblockables)

The absolutely always unblockable class:
Dudley (For the same reasons Jinrai outlined above)

Everybody else.

Now, if I’m playing an unkown opponent, I’ll pick tengu every time. It is by far a more versitile super and can still lead to an easy 50% on a relatively short bar considering the potential damage. This is also because after having played unblockables for a couple months, I have concluded I’m just a better Tengu player. I don’t have (major) problems doing the unblockables, if i’m concentrated I’ll get them out every time. If I screw up it’s usually a random SJ when I try to get a chicken kick in the chicken combo. Now if I’m playing somebody who I know will probably kick my ass, I’m going to go for unblockables. I’ve won many a match I shouldn’t have against better players by virtue of the fact that I was using unblockables and I got that one parry into close strong and the round was over.

So there’s my two cents.

Poor SA1 gets no respect. :frowning:

It doesn’t deserve any, sorry to say.

but, but, EX SA1 is invincible! INVINCIBLE! I suck so bad. :frowning:

Evil, if you’re landing EX SA1 consistently on your opponents, it’s certainly not you that sucks. :smiley: Don’t worry about it… unless you’re in a tourney.

Man…tournament though, you can’t depend on random parry, especially against good kens. I used to try to scrub out and do random parrys, even in those moments of clarity when you think you can parry everything. Everyone though evolves out of that state into a higher state in which they know that if you’re playing serious, block everything. Block everything on wake-up. This might sound stupid, but I will take like 5 throws, instead of a strong fierce fireballxxxsuper. Anyways though, I digress, nobody has brought up the versitility of just throwing out a yagou ball vs blocked tengu strings. Yagou has such a small meter that you can afford to throw it out to zone. Is there something bad about throwing it out that I’m missing? I know that the start up is shitty, so I throw it at a safe distance, or when I’ve knccked them down.

Random Yagyou is rather easy to escape by backdashing once or twice. If they’re in the corner and can be crossed up there, that’s a different story.

Wakeup parries are good if you do them sparingly enough; the reward for Oro is too phenomenal to ignore. Against Ken, I occasionally attempt a low parry after sticking out a poke in case they respond with a ducking Forward. If I guessed right and got the parry, I’ll either punish with a far standing Forward or block if I predict a baited super.

i know this doesn’t have anything to do with Oro but 3S gameplay in general… when ken goes for into his SAIII if you parry the… can you parry the Super Art? or do you need GODLIKE reflexes?