Sakura's Guard-Crush CC vs Counter-Attack/Counter-Movement

sakura

#1

If the opponent can break out of the Guard-Crush CC simply by using up one of his meters to Counter-Attack, wouldn’t that make Sakura’s Guard-Crush CC only good against P and K (and maybe S)??

I heard that sometimes Counter-Attack gets outprioritized by the continuous DPs, but I’m not sure whether to empty Sakura’s CC on a blocking opponent, if he’s in C/A/N Groove…

Does anyone have an experienced say in this??


#2

I am pretty sure that Sak follows the same property of out prioritizing and opponents counter-attack as long as you do raid DP really fast. anyways, with sak, you have no other choice than to empty your meter with repeated DP’s. If you do anything else, you will most likely get punished. you can probably throw in a random roll in hopes that you will cause a wiffed counter-attack, then punish from there.

I know that with kyo and iori, their guard crush cc will beat out counter-attacks. I will see if I can test it out soon, unless Gunter or Gandido can come in and comfirm this.:smiley:


#3

No you don’t quite understand what I’m asking.
Against P/K, I activate my CC from up close, regardless of whether they can block it or not, because it’ll do big damage either way, and they can’t get out. Against Grooves with Counter-Attack or Counter-Movement, I’m not sure if it’s worth it to use up a CC, even though there’s a high probability that they’ll block it.

Also note that if they Counter-Attack the CC, they lose one level, and you lose about one level, and you’ll both take approximately the same amount of damage, so it’s a fair trade-off. However, Sakura retains some of her meter, giving her more chances at landing a CC.

So, basically what I’m asking is:
Against a groove with Counter-Attack/Counter-Roll, if I have a full meter with Sakura, should I be more conservative with the CC (only using it if it’s a guaranteed hit) or should I use it aggressively (not worrying about the opponent blocking it or not)??


#4

Re: Re: Sakura’s Guard-Crush CC vs Counter-Attack/Counter-Movement

Sorry about that.

I honestly use it to guard crush the opponent. In the process, if the oppenent counters, they will most likely counter at the beggin of teh cc. If they do, you have done some chip, and still have a good amount of bar left to build and be able to activate once again.

If you play it conservative, then you risk running your bar down, and prolly won;'t do no damge. People know you can’t block, so they will either take advantage and hit you out, or they will turtlel, causing you to wast your meter.

So personally, I would waste the cc aggressively.:smiley:


#5

Re: Re: Re: Sakura’s Guard-Crush CC vs Counter-Attack/Counter-Movement

Nononono. You still don’t understand. sigh If you activated and the opponent is blocking, of course you’re gonna do the GC Custom That’s a no-brainer.

However, if the opponent is in a position where he there is a good chance that he will block the CC, should I still activate, or should I look for a better chance to land the CC.

For example, with a character like Bison, 90% of the time, I activate when the CC is absolutely guaranteed to hit.


#6

Re: Re: Re: Re: Sakura’s Guard-Crush CC vs Counter-Attack/Counter-Movement

that explains everything right there. why activate if you know the opponent is going to block the cc. If you activate, you will most likely waste the meter.

looking for an opportunity to land the cc is what you should be looking for. Unless they have little life and you want to chip them.


#7

magnus>> That’s where you’re wrong. You obviously don’t play A-Sakura. Suppose I was fighting against a P/K-Groove user. If I had full meter, and they were in a position where if I activated a CC, there’s nothing they could do but block it, I would definitely activate.

-Each blocked hit does 100 damage each.
-14 DPs at 4 hits each = 5600, and a crushed guard.
-Lv1 Super does 2000.

That is roughly 7600 damage. Also, I DON’T have to waste time looking for an opportunity to hit the CC. Instead, I can just get in close, activate, paint his fence, then get back to building my meter again. Most importantly, it’s FREE UNAVOIDABLE DAMAGE.

Now, if I wait for an opportunity where I could hit the custom combo, I’m just wasting time. I would land 0-2 customs with Sakura. If I used them ASAP, I would land 3-4.

You see what I mean??

Now, I’m wondering if I should be doing the same thing against grooves that can counter, such as CASN. Can someone give me some EXPERIENCED info on this?


#8

he plays a-sakura u dumb fuck. I dunno why you keep asking, you seem to be answering your own questions.

obviously u can do it anytime against p/k.

against the rest, do it when they roll , lose tripguard, wiff a slow poke, after connected d. wk, d. wp, after cross up, activate 2nd against another agroove, etc. etc. really just common sense.

Now when they block, usually from who i played, they alphacounter//roll either from the start, or like after few dp’s (roughly 2-3 seconds in real time).

Sometimes u can feel when there gonna counter, so just do something like d. wk , then block. Then from there see what they do. they wiff the coutner, continue whatever. im sure u can come up w/ yr own shit now


#9

If it’s not a DP or fast alpha counter, don’t expect it to do much. Counter-Movement is probably the only really effective AC since you’re out of the way and you’re able to retaliate very fast afterwards.


#10

Read this, and tell me if this sounds like a proficient A-Sakura player:

Anyway, I know how to use A-Groove, you fool. I’m not looking for an A-Groove tutorial. I would just like to know what the properties of Sakura’s GC CC vs Counter-Attack are. Despite several explanations, magnus didn’t understand what my question was, and neither do you. Geekboy knows what I’m talking about.

By the way:

You can’t block during an activated CC, dumbass.

So most Counter-Attacks don’t work against it?? Yah, I’ve had Ryu and Sagat blow through it with Counter-Attacks, but I’ve went through Blanka’s before. Maybe I should test it out to see whose Counters get out prioritized. Thanks a lot.


#11

Okay, since nobody had an answer, I just took the 15 minutes to figure it out for myself.

The Counter-Attacks which cleanly beat Sakura’s Guard-Crush CC (obviously) end her CC, and do roughly the same damage to her as she does to the opponent. She retains 50% of the meter she had when she got hit, plus the amount she gains from getting hit. I don’t think this is worth it for Sakura against C-Groove, because half an A-Groove meter is more valuable than one C/N meter. However, against another A-Groove, I think it’s not a big loss, if any at all. Your failed chance at a CC, but your opponent loses just as much meter as you do. On top of that, Sakura builds meter extremely quickly and safely, so the advantage is yours. So, if you’re aggressive with your activations, failed attempts result in no disadvantage for you, and the chance at a landed CC makes it all worthwhile.

The Counter-Attacks which trade hits with Sakura are basically the same as the ones which cleanly beat her out. They both have the same effect, but result in a little bit more damage to the opponent. The difference is very little though.

The Counter-Attacks which cause both the opponent and Sakura to whiff are probably the worst for Sakura. Not only does the opponent avoid chip damage, but Sakura’s CC continues, forcing her to lose ALL of her meter, as opposed to just half. After the counter, Sakura probably won’t be able to catch her fleeing opponent.

The Counter-Attacks which are out-prioritized by Sakura’s Guard Crush CC are obviously beneficial to Sakura. 7500 free damage is always a good thing.

**When doing a Counter-Attack against Sakura’s Guard Crush CC, the following characters beat Sakura out cleanly:
-Benimaru
-Cammy
-Guile
-Iori
-Ken
-Ryo
-Ryu
-Sagat
-Yuri

**The following characters have Counter-Attacks which cause both Sakura’s CC AND the Counter-Attack to whiff (ie. go through each other)
-Kyosuke
-Rolento
-Yun

**The rest of the characters have Counter-Attacks which trade hits with Sakura, ending her CC…except for…

**BLANKA!! He is the only character in the game whose counter-attack gets beaten out cleanly by Sakura’s Guard Crush CC. He’s also arguably the best character in the game, so you will likely find this useful. If he attempts to counter-attack, he just wastes a super and gets hit. If he doesn’t, he takes chip damage. In any case, like against P and K-Grooves, an activated CC results in 7500+ damage, whether you block it or not.


#12

:lol: when i saw him post that, i was :lol: hard


#13

yeah, you can’t block during a cc, I dunno what I was thinking.


#14

A little trick you can do to avoid being Guard Cancel Countered is to cancel your DP into a Roll when you see the pause for the GC start.


#15

That’s cuz you WEREN’T thinking, you “dumb fuck”.

MummyB>> Thanks. I’ll try that and see how it works for me.


#16

Yea, i wasnt. i appoligize for that earlier comment, was just hot headed in defending my friend, who does play a mean a-sakura


#17

:lol:


#18

Aight cool.

Back on topic…Yeah, I basically try to HIT the other guy with the custom now, except when playing against P/K, and C/A-Blanka. In those cases, I just try to unload it asap, as long as they at least block it. Also, in some cases against A-Groove, I do that too (eg. Bison with near Empty meter, another Sakura, etc…) If I get it blocked against a C/A/N user, I’ll probably go for the overhead…


#19

here’s a surefire way to get ur gc cc in on a p/k user
when u get close enuff for a b&B (lp x2 - lk - fierce dp)
do this instead
lp walk a bit lp (repeat)
then when u feel comfortable and confident enough activatate and gc the hell outta them k/p users
ps this works best on big chars
if u try to do this on nako or even sakura herself
the opponent will just crouch and ur lp will totally whiff

this is also a good way to pressurise ur opponent
like…wats he gonna do to a sakura walking up to him and starts doing lp walk lp
trade?parry?(i dun think so)
just make sure the lps dont link
once u start this trap going on…its a great way to gain meter as well and start ur sakura mind games with the opponent

now the only damn thing to do is to get my cc in when im on the right…dang


#20

anyone know a counter for this in p or k? Can you bait an activation and parry into dp? or jab?

the first thing to come out with sak is a 4 hit dp right? it’s a hi or low parry right? So hi or low parry would freeze time and then dp?

Thanks