SEIMITSU LS 56 01 vs. SANWA JLF-TP-8YT-SK JOYSTICK


#11

According to this site, http://www.kowal.itcom.pl/ArcadeParts_pliki/artZESen.htm
the engage and throw distance between ls 40 and ls 56 is identical, so i think there isnt any difference in sensitivity.
I have the ls 56 because i thought, that the small engage distance will improve my game in making me faster. But that is actually not the case!
The Problem is, whenever u want do dash, or make a FADC combo, it happens quite easy, that u hit on of the diagonals, instead of straight forward or backwards, so the “dash” does not comes out. This ofc is caused by the small engage distance. Cause of that, really have to concentrate on every input. If u try to be fast, so the input is a little bit sloppy, there is a huge possibility to land on the diagonals.
This is ofc effectively prevented by the octogonal gate, but I prefer square gates very much. If you want to play the LS 56 with an octogate, I highly recommend the stick, I think there isn’t a better octogate on the market, ofc this is all personal taste, but many will agree.

Another thing that I noticed. The engage distance of the stick is small. Because of this, the engage zone is quite big (the difference between throw and engage distance). At first view, there are no negative points to that.
But I experienced, that when you try to qcf, qcf PPP or any other ultra. Especially after DP, FADC, when u dont have much time, the ultra will not come out.
This is caused by the big engage zone of df or db in relation to just f or b.
U can ofc input the ultra like that: d, df, d, df, f + PPP. But because of the big engage zone of df, you often stay on df making it: d, df, d, df * PPP (Or Even d, df, …, df. means u even dont hit the down direction properly) -> The ultra does not come out. So u can ofc try to input: d, df, d, df, f, uf + PPP which will work ofc, evry time.
But when u do this, u sacrafice speed. And the speed was for me the reason for buying the ls56, actually, it did not pay off.

I ordered a sanwa JLF a view days back and it did arrive. I yet hadnt the time to install it, I anyway plan to make a second stick with it, which will take some time.
But by just holding the stick, I can say, that it will probably not have any of these problems mentioned above, perhaps the stick will has his own problems ofc, I cant say yet, anyway you have to deal with it.
But the motion is much smoother and i actually cant imagine, why people say, they have problems with dashes on the sanwa. Ofc the spring is much lighter, but to counter that, the microswitches are a lot harder, and so by themselves should push the stick to neutral position very fast ! (thx to the big dead zone, caused by the bigger engage distance). So i imagine, that it would be actually easier to dash, cause u dont need to have the stick in absolutely neutral position after the first forward (which is the case with the ls56, which has nearly no deadspace).
As i said, i havent yet played on the sanwa, so its just theorie, but by itself it feels quite good.

I will post more experiences, after my second stick is ready.
In the end, it is ofc all personal preferences. I can do any moves on any stick. I think, any stick has its strong and weak moments, u just have to know them and must adjust. Its a compromise. But i think, I can get along a little ! better with the sanwa (overall), at least for street fighter 4.

I had wrote more then I wanted :smiley: . U can often see new Threads of people, asking for sanwa vs seimitsu or big vs small throw. I think, in general it makes not a “big” difference, as long as u are used to the stick. And i often read, that a small engage distance is so much better or faster. For me, as mentioned, its absolutely not the case. A stick does not make the player.

Perhaps someone has made equal experiences with small engage distances?


#12

I have both stick and I use both. ls-56 is good, but honestly, not adapted to fighters. My hand hurts after 1h or so when using it. It does wonder in shmup on the other hand, where jlf is lacking in my opinion.


#13

i prefer ls-56 than jlf…it’s more faster et precise.but since some week i play whith ls-58 with new ss-plate(work with ls-56),and it’s my faforite now.


#14

Ls-56 is fantastic with a octagonal gate its my favorite seimitsu stick, and perfect with Guilty Gear and KOF. I also had problems with dashing with a sanwa JLF originally because it feels like your waiting on the stick longer then you should, with a ls56 their is no waiting everything is instant but you have to be more precise with your movements . JLF is the best stick with a square gate in my op its the smoothest and very responsive but can feel slow at times.


#15

Before I read this tonight I had already ordered an Octagonal gate from FA.com since I ran one on my JLF and loved it. The default setup of the LS-56 works amazingly well as almost all of my consistency issues went byebye for quite a few combos but the chance to error with the short throw on diagonals is a bit higher than a JLF. I was thinking the 8way restrictor would fix that and it sounds like it may :slight_smile:


#16

Yup, just spent a few hours playing and the 8way restricor on the LS-56 is the most amazing thing I’ve ever played with. My inputs are spot on perfect now. Like, everything I couldn’t do before I can now do with ease. If anybody else is having similar problems to what I have (Sanwa JLF feeling a bit slow to respond) then I highly recommend going with an LS-56 + 8 way restrictor. The diagonals were the only issues I had with the default LS-56 with the square gate and the 8way lets you feel every click which fixes that.

So yeah, if you want a stick with a much shorter throw than a Sanwa and want to make sure it’s accurate, pick up the pieces I got. You won’t regret it IMO.


#17

i had an ls 56 with a custom circle gate, and EVEN stiffer spring than stock. Arms started burning after 30 minutes…but it was amazing until then. lol.


#18

LS-56 with an octagonal gate is what I usually recommend for people looking for something more American/Happ/iL in feel, while fitting easily into a TE or HRAP. It’s not the same, but it gets you in the ballpark and has its own flavor. I feel that it’s too tight and error prone and prefer the more forgiving throw of the JLF or LS-32 for fighting games, but it’s good if that is what you are after.


#19

Last summer I swapped the LS-32 in my HRAP for an LS-40 to play shmups and platformers. The LS-40 is probably the best stock shmup stick I have played on, so far. Very short engage. The only downside is that it is very unforgiving for FGs. I gave the LS-40 a couple of weeks when I got KoF XIII and then I ended up swapping the LS-32 back in.


#20

What you mean by that?


#21

For the LS-40 the distance between neutral and engage was too short. The diagonals were too close. It was very easy for me to overshoot into a diagonal or engage when I didn’t intend to. Understand that I’m in my mid 30s with carpal tunnel syndrome so your mileage may vary. Putting the LS-32 back in instantly felt better for FGs.

I was actually swapping parts between the two tonight and I ended up with the LS-40 body + shaft and the LS-32 PCB. I’m not sure if it’s just the power of suggestion, but this feels great. Good throw and engage. Specials in XIII felt more competent. I fired up Shock Troopers and it felt almost as quick as a stock LS-40.


#22

Hmm, i see what you saying, but anyway, I don’t understand how the LS-32-01 PCB could fit on the LS-40 body. I already tried that.


#23

It actually fit pretty well. I will try to get some pictures.


#24

You’re right, i did it again…the PCB really fits well on the LS-40 body, but i believe what makes the difference about engagement / throw is the pivot design since the switches and restrictor distances between each other are the same. So, i think changing only the PCB wouldn’t make a big difference.

Also, using all LS-32 parts (excepct restrictor) on the LS-40 body results in a great feel, the only issue is that it makes a even shorter joystick shaft due LS-32 pivot placed on a little more deeper hole (ls40 body) but is possible to feel more throw immediately. If you modify the LS-40 pivot to fit LS-32 shaft on it, you fix that issue (shorter shaft) but the effect is nothing more than a sturdy LS-40, engagement / throw also the same.

That’s what i have learned so far swapping parts. =)


#25

Ahh. I guess I will just chalk the difference in feel up to my LS-32 PCB being more broken in.


#26

I had the same problems with diagonals with the LS-56 but the 8 way/circle restrictor fixed that entirely. It’s now pretty much impossible for me to overshoot and I get quicker inputs since the throw is shorter and shorter to reset back to neutral. But, as you said, everyone will have a different experience so you just go with what feels good. And in a situation like this where most lack personal experience you sort of have to go off of what others have written and see if it maybe fits what you think you’d like.

Personally, I’d love to see a thread/sticky that has all the common joysticks listed and then a few opinions written about each one regarding their feel, throw distance, force required, height, potential issues and different restrictors available. Like, the differences between the typical sanwa, sanwa with 8way, ls-32, 40 and 56, Happ, optical sticks etc. etc. That information seems to be in short supply sadly.


#27

Yep, that’s how it starts…you get stick curious. Once you get it in your head, you gotta check em all out.
And that’s why I have a lot of sticks :stuck_out_tongue:
Own most of them, except for LS-55 and the new LS-58 (which is basically feel wise is a 56 with a lighter spring.)

Fun thing about having lots of sticks is swapping parts, kinda like you guys mentioned with the LS-32 & 40.
Like Project LS-36

In that thread one guy had an awesome idea for fixing the LS-32 pivot popping issue that bothers some (like me)

Oh yeah this might help a little, still doesn’t scratch the itch of holding it and better yet testing it out during a playtest.

Good read for general knowledge of parts:
http://www.slagcoin.com/joystick/joystick_components.html


#28

Part swapping is the best part of my day. I waiting, actually for a brand new JLF (never had a new one, only busted ones) and an LS-56. I need to find out more about them. :slight_smile:

BTW, anyone know if any other Seimitsu sticks have parts that will fit the LS-30 (rotary stick)? I have a couple of these, but they’ll need new springs, switches and maybe even actuators. If I figure it out, I’ll make a small tutorial for sure.


#29

There now passed a little time after my post in this thread.
Actually I did a lot of modding. I changed the height of the joystick (distance from the top of the pannel to the bottom of the balltop) to 23 mm (slagcoin says, its the standard for japanese sticks) with some ring washers (which works very! good, its possible to adjust the height in mm scale). I got used to the height very fast (a matter of minutes lol) and actually am quite content with the LS - 56 and the standard square gate.
But I wanted to have some more fun with modding and trying out new equipment, so I purchased a LS - 32 and gave it a shot. What can I say… Really its the worst stick I ever played on, I cant really understand his good reputation. I knew of the pivot jumping problem while activating the switches and pressing against the restrictor gate, but I always thought that these people must ride the gate unnecessary hard with whole arm motions or some rage stuff. But thats not the case, the stick is “lifting” with, I would say moderate play, I’m really not unnecessary hard on it (It’s especially noticable when you hold down/back to block, the whole shaft ist lifting a bit, it feels unteady). It’s not a big deal, it’s not a hindrance to the motion and the stick is fine in the other terms, but it feels so damn cheap!!! For me it’s qlearly some kind of contruction error and definitely not a thing I would have imagined from “quality made in Japan”. I mean not even the worst chinese copys in some cheap sticks feel that unsteady. Now I have tried it out and sending it back to the shop, so no money wasted. It’s just for principle, I’m not going to swap the stock chinese parts for quality japanese arcade parts for this cheap constructional error, it’s like a joke. I will try out the JLF in the future, still have it laying down at home for weeks now, but no time to finish the arcade stick building project yet.
Swapped the LS - 32 for the 56 again and am totally happy with it, I don’t hope that the JLF is the next disappointment (But the jlf feels much more sturdy than the ls 32 and the motion is stable).
I will definitely try a LS 58 spring for the LS 56 soon.


#30

i prefer the LS. its firmer… clickier.