Seth Setups

seth

#41

I might have ruined the game in terms of numbers if this has the potential I think it does. Lot of testing required as there are a few variables, but I did run through some things that should speak for themselves…

360 + P, down, down forward, forward until Seth moves forward visibly ~ LP ~ jump towards opponent, fj.MK/j.HK (~ downback if you do j.MK so you don’t get head stomps)

fj.MK/j.HK because fj.MK hits a little farther and may be required to hit the character if they get hit by Sonic Boom. So far I’m only running this in the corner but it seems like there is enough input leniency to walk forward far enough and Sonic Boom to hit them mid-screen.

Against a cornered opponent, I was able to…

  • make all of Oni’s non-EX DP’s whiff, and only get hit for 80 by EX DP
  • safe jump Oni’s HP DP (probably can’t do this reliably without a timing method)
  • make all of Ryu’s DPs whiff
  • land in time to block Ryu’s Super
  • if boom gets blocked, it is a true block string if j.HK or fj.MK reaches (which always does in the corner?) They get hit if they try to mash. You are usually +4 at the very least if they block the j.MK/j.HK.
  • if boom is blocked and attack doesn’t reach, they can’t mash out and hit you 99% of the time (too far away from you - but in range for LP Engine and dash SPD)
  • forces them to eat chip damage? can’t jump or back dash to avoid, avoiding fireball usually forces you into a combo
  • doesn’t seem to be negative frames if they block (couldn’t hit Seth with reversal Super from Ryu after blocking Boom and jumping in with no attack mid screen)
  • always be in range for dash spd (corner or not)
  • leads into combo if it hits in corner (input leniency = walk far enough to do mid screen?)
  • Safe jumps and/or avoids all of Sagat’s DPs in the corner (might work mid-screen? j.HK works on him in corner for sure though.)

#42

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX1whMqCY6c#t=1m24s

This?


#43

Whaaat, Poongko knows everything. Motherfucker. Seems pretty finicky anyway though…was hoping it’d solve the “hello my name is Ken and this is my fierce DP” but I couldn’t get it to work very well on him.

…well, it’s not like I lack any ideas yet though. Since I started getting back on my book lately (forgot if I posted these before or not, although I’m pretty sure the unblockable is new.)

Back Throw ~ forward dash ~ MP Tanden Engine
Meaty Engine, safe against jump ins for the most part (exceptions are reeeally long reaching air normals.) You are + enough to do cr.LP without getting mashed out if they block as they get up (true block string.) Can use HP Engine if you feel like it, I don’t think it makes a difference. Most (if not all) characters can back dash to avoid it (but full screen is okay for Seth most of the time anyway.) Speaking of, you have to be able to throw the opponent a fair distance. You can be closer, but you’ll be much more likely to get hit by people holding up forward.

Hyakuretsukyaku ~ LP Boom ~ wall jump towards opponent, j.HK
Catches just about any and all button pressing (3f DPs included.) But requires that you have the space to wall jump full screen.

cr.LK ~ cst.LK, cr.LP xx HP DP x3 ~ walk back a bit, jump over opponent, j.HK or Dive kick
Avoids reversals (Adon)

cr.LK ~ cst.LK, cr.LP xx HP DP x3 ~ neutral jump, nj.MK towards opponent
Whiff set up (Guy)

cr.LK ~ cst.LK, cr.LP xx EX DP (x6) ~ LP DP ~ neutral jump, nj.HP
Stuffs/trades with reversals (Guy)

cr.LK ~ cst.LK, cr.LP xx EX DP (x6) ~ throw whiff ~ jump over opponent, j.HK
Avoids reversals, crosses up (Guy)

cr.LK ~ cst.LK, cr.LP xx EX DP (x6) ~ back dash ~ jump towards opponent, j.HK
Universal 4f+ safe jump from EX DP, but timing varies for some characters and it can be tricky. For 4f, you want to delay the EX DP’s second motion but not so much as to create a noticeable gap.

cr.LK ~ cst.LK, cr.LP xx HP DP (x3) ~ jump over opponent, j.HK
Safe jump and crosses up (Sagat/Cammy)

(Ibuki only?) cr.LK ~ cr.LK, (must pause or cst.LP whiffs) cst.LP, cr.HK
One of dem fabled sweep combos. Hope to find more later. Only did it on Ibuki so far because the spacing for mid-combo meaty st.LPs is stuuuuupid. So stupid that you have to be point blank but you can’t use Tanden Engine to start it. If anyone else goes looking for these, keep in mind that the st.LP can be close or far…it just has to hit on the second active frame…which is a lot more annoying than it seems. Oh and Ibuki has to be standing (because st.LP hits approximately…um…1? 2? crouching characters.)

(Ryu, corner only) cr.LK, cr.LP, cst.HP xx HP Boom xx FADC forward, cr.HK ~ walk back for about two or three frames, ~ jump over opponent, j.LK
Fake cross up that finally doesn’t fucking get blocked both ways. You are clearly going to cross them up…but don’t, for whatever reason. If they block this, they are psychic. Or you gave them way too much credit for spotting cross ups.

(Ibuki, corner only) SPD ~ walk back a frame or two ~ wall jump towards opponent, j.HP
Interesting whiff set up. EX Upkicks will whiff for a free punish. Otherwise, Seth’s j.HP never hits…but Seth always ends up on the side that Ibuki isn’t blocking, and it looks like it is definitely going to hit (not to mention you can probably mix in j.HK…)

(Ibuki, corner only) SPD ~ walk back a frame or two ~ wall jump towards opponent, dj.MK
Derpy set up. Doesn’t cross up, but the head stomp does connect - so you can go for stomp shenanigans if you feel like it. EX Kicks will whiff. Holding back will (sort of) OS a wall jump back to safety…you basically can use this to troll or avoid chip damage. Can probably punish EX Kicks if they go for it (forgot to try, lol.)

(Ibuki, corner only) cr.LK, cr.LP, cst.HP xx HP Boom xx FADC forward, cr.HK ~ walk back a frame or two ~ jump over opponent, j.HK
Unblockable, avoids reversal EX Upkicks for a free punish. Doesn’t matter what she does, she gets tagged by it without just frame blocking as far as I can tell. One exception: Ibuki can back dash to avoid it…and still ends up in the corner at a pretty hefty disadvantage, so whatever.

I’ll have a video of the unblockable … eventually…

…now someone else post some shit!


#44

Yup.

wow, that is a lot better than the shitty setup I found off of sweep on her…

Ok. Here’s that shitty setup I mentioned earlier:

(corner only) c.HK > immediate jump forward > divekick (before top of jump arc)

Works as a half-ass reverse blockable against: Ibuki, Chun, Guy
Regular cross up on: Fuerte

Ibuki
[LIST]
[]When blocking cross up, gets hit. Seth lands in corner.
[
]When blocking non cross up, avoids hit.
[]When holding down-forward or down, avoids hit. When holding down-back, gets hit.
[
]Can avoid hit by jumping in any direction (preferably out of corner).
[]Can avoid hit by using any version of command dash
[
]EX Kazegiri whiffs
[]Backdashes into Seth. Can forward dash to escape.
[
]Focus attack makes divekick whiff. Does not face Seth.
[/LIST]
Chun
[LIST]
[]When blocking cross up, gets hit. Seth lands in corner.
[
]When blocking non cross up, avoids hit.
[]Cannot crouch in any way to avoid hit.
[
]Can avoid hit by jumping in any direction (preferably out of corner).
[]Whiffs if neutral.
[
]Safe against EX SBK
[]Backdashes into Seth. Forward dashes into Seth.
[
]Focus attack makes divekick whiff. Does not face Seth.
[/LIST]
Guy
[LIST]
[]When blocking cross up, gets hit. Seth lands in corner.
[
]When blocking non cross up, avoids hit.
[]When holding down-forward or down, avoids hit. When holding down-back, gets hit.
[
]Can avoid hit by jumping in any direction (preferably out of corner).
[]Can avoid hit by using any version of run and tatsu.
[
]EX tatsu whiffs
[*]Backdashes into Seth. Can forward dash to escape.
[/LIST]
I can make a video if the notation isn’t clear enough. The c.HK basically has to be point blank. The divekick timing is pretty lenient. I also did not test if the opponent can do any normal moves on wakeup to avoid the hit, as they already have plenty of ways to do so. The divekick seems to hit so that no normal would hit Seth before Seth hits the opponent. Even focus attacks faced the wrong way.


#45

Good lord I am so fucking pissed off right now. Found what may have been the very first no knockdown needed unblockable. Did it a few times, was going “ohshiiit” and made a quick note so I could switch to PC and record it. Go fucking figure, I wrote the notation wrong in my rush and now I can’t figure it out again. All of my hate. All of it.

(Ryu) (Point blank, kinda unreliable, no Tanden again…) cr.LP ~ cr.LP ~ cst.LP, cr.HK
(Sakura) (Tanden only) Tanden Engine, cr.LK, cst.LK, (slight pause or cst.LP whiffs) cst.LP, cr.HK

SPD ~ hold back until Seth moves ~ wall jump towards opponent, earlyish j.LP
(Ryu) - Avoids all Supers, MP DP, HP DP, and EX DP. Safe jumps U1. Trades with LP DP.

SPD ~ dash forward ~ fst.MK ~ jump towards opponent, dj.MK
(Gouken) - Makes all reversals whiff. Well, maybe not U2 (didn’t try that one.) Activated counters will miss, stuffs mid/low counters (counter hit.) Opens up head stomp shenanigans.

SPD ~ FA ~ FADC forward ~ jump towards opponent, j.HK
(Blanka) - Finding this drove me nuts. Finally, a reliable Blanka safe jump.

SPD ~ throw whiff ~ jump towards opponent, j.HK
(Adon) - Another one that was pissing me off. Timing is a bit tricky, and requires SPD’s spacing. The awesome trade off as a result of this though: you can OS all of Adon’s wake up options with it. Problem is, Adon can avoid this by not pressing anything. The j.HK will then whiff…but Adon can’t catch you with anything still, and you’re right in his face. However, this does mean that you need to have meter when you OS Adon with HP DP (in addition, he can back dash to avoid DP - but still gets caught by Legs, while U1 should catch almost everything…)

Tanden Engine, cr.HP (x2), cr.HK ~ walk forward two or three frames ~ jump over opponent, j.LK
(Sakura) (Corner) - Doing j.LK near the head results in a fake cross up that always ends with Sakura in the corner (or in other words, Seth boxes Sakura in.) Can combo into cr.LP, whatever.

(Glitch) Doing cr.HK to Sakura after a Sonic Boom FADC combo in the corner tends to warp you through her and gives her a free punish. Can avoid this by delaying the sweep just a bit.

(Based combos) cst.MP, cst.HP does in fact work against Sakura on Tanden Engines. You must do a longer pause after cst.MP so that cst.HP can connect. While you think this would make it a 1f link, it doesn’t for whatever reason…also, cr.LK, cr.LP, cst.HP has the same problem (but this is more annoying because fucking up is much worse, and this combo does end up being harder…lolfst.HP)


#46

Of course it works. The trick was to walk forward just a bit after the Tanden.


#47

You don’t need to walk forward though (then again, I see people saying you need to walk forward for cst.HK, cst.HP on Seth too. Weird.) Anyway…this is gonna be [S]kind of[/S] long, but I encourage you to read it.

Seth has an unblockable HK Hyakuretsukyaku after cr.HP in the corner against Sakura. No jumping involved. I literally spent around five hours trying to replicate this last night, but I ran out of patience and don’t want to keep screwing around with it at the moment. But it definitely worked at one point. When it was working, the set up looked something like this: cr.HP (x2), cst.LP ~ dash forward ~ HK Hyakuretsukyaku. When it worked, Seth always performed a meaty Hyakuretsukyaku in the direction Sakura was NOT blocking. I say like because this clearly doesn’t work despite what I had written down in my notations (so I must have done something else, which likely involves holding forward at some point.)

Theory time.

This could potentially be a can of whoop ass if someone figures out the timing behind it (read: practical set up), because it has a lot of applications for Seth and other characters. I was trying to think of ways to confuse the engine, and then it just kinda came to me when I was thinking about how Seth warps through Makoto and Sakura with his cr.HK. You know how a lot of moves actually “move” your character, right? Now…why can’t you use that to go under - or even through - your opponent at the last moment and hit them from the other side after an aerial reset (cross under)? Well, the usual answer is because A) your character is too big, B) you don’t launch them high enough and have enough time, or C) the move whiffs for no apparent reason. When you find a solution to A and B, C just seems to happen regardless unless you do it late as hell and therefore make it easy to spot after seeing it once. I think this happens because everyone seems to have a very small window of invincibility as they land before actually being able to do anything after getting hit by an attack in the air that doesn’t create a juggle state (aerial reset.) There appears to be a way to defeat C, but figuring out a way to time it is proving difficult. Basically: you want the move to go under the opponent before they land, and as they land, the move must hit during the active frames while still moving forward. What (appears) to happen is that you’re holding back/downback, but the Hyakuretsukyaku is hitting just the right area of the hurt box when they’re allowed to do something. As your hurt box constantly does tiny changes, blocking changes your hurt box too (very minimally most of the time, but more significantly than the tiny ones occurring from you just standing there.) This is a result of giving everyone weird ass hit boxes that move according to your animation frames (every character bobs or some shit for no apparent reason at certain frames which vary for every character, you can test this by putting a character in the corner and standing at a specific distance with a move that will seemingly hit randomly. Here is an example. Seth - frame 1, frame 7. Look very closely at the lines that appear somewhat “jagged”, like the one at Seth’s forehead.) So the engine appears to get confused and pushes Seth to the side Sakura is blocking during the small invincibility window, but almost immediately pushes him to the other side because Seth’s collision boxes are being pushed forward by Hyakuretsukyaku.

Now, I have never heard of something like this before on this engine, so I’m not actually sure if doing a just frame block would actually stop it from connecting. I also don’t know if this is actually why it’s happening, although it makes the most sense to me (as Sakura has an unusual hurt box and seems to recoil more than other characters from hits.) That does raise the question of what happens if the Hyakuretsukyaku actually connects perfectly in the middle of her hurt box (assuming it just becomes blockable both ways.) More importantly though, if it does work something like I’m theorizing. And there turn out to be practical set ups. This could (again, theoretically) work with any air reset on any move that can move you forward enough to go through/over/under x character…like Seth’s 7f invincible DP.

side note: You can kinda see what I’m talking about by doing cr.HP (x2), cst.LP ~ dash forward ~ D ~ DB ~ B ~ F (hold forward for 2-4? frames) ~ HK against a cornered Sakura. When you do it right, you’ll move forward a little because of input leniency, and then actually do a cross under Hyakuretsukyaku (which is basically impossible to react to without knowing it’s coming before hand, so gimmicks r us.)

Also another weird note, but if cr.HP hits during the second active frame (before the 2f gap, 2f no launch frames), the character looks like they get launched a little higher. You can see it on Sakura after Tanden Engine, but I’m not sure if they actually are because it might just be that recovery screwing with me…


#48

You used to have to walk forward but that changed in AE, now you don’t. I always read your posts.

Just to be sure, you are resetting Sakura with the cs.LP right? You mention air resets in the following paragraph to the quote. Or are you whiffing the cs.LP for timing purposes? Although, I guess using the cs.LP for the reset also aids in timing. Also, why cs.LP? Why not another move (say about 4-5 frames longer in total duration) for the reset, which might help with timing the unblockable.


#49

It has to be cst.LP because Seth takes too long to actually go ‘under’ Sakura otherwise. Consequently, this is also the only normal that will hit her that high that recovers that fast anyway (although you can FADC cst.HK or cst.HP.) You have to time it so it doesn’t whiff, although that timing is pretty lenient (though if you take too long, you’ll do fst.LP…and then you’ll be too far lol.) You can also just hold forward and then do it. Dunno if it makes a difference…actually, I think it does, but 5 hours of recording the dummy…zzz…

cr.HP (x2), cst.HP/cst.HK xx FADC opens up some interesting set ups as well though. You could probably do the same thing with Hyakuetsukyaku, because it’s actually easier to cross under her. With the extra time you get from hitting her earlier in the air, you get some interesting stuff. You can, for example, use nj.MK to go over her as she recovers. While I couldn’t get it to actually hit (motherfucker) it looks like it could be possible to use as a cross up. (side note: actually I think you can use this on real knockdowns as well against Sakura due to her odd hurt box.) But you can tell the engine gets confused when you do this because there are actually some easy set ups where Seth always ends up behind Sakura using j.HK despite coming in from an angle where he shouldn’t. This results in some oddities - for one, it can be blocked both ways. Another thing I don’t see too often is that when she blocks it as a cross up, Sakura actually gets up and walks away from the corner for a few frames, but then goes into a forced block state before getting sucked back in from block stun.

Of course, this is all just about the time I wasted with Sakura. This does work on other characters, although I don’t know if the ability to cross under is universal…

Also, I only did it once - but I managed to get j.HP to cross up on Sakura in the corner. It looked sorta weird, but since I only did it on accident with no set ups, I’m not sure if it was a real cross up or a fake cross up that put Seth behind her. Frankly, I was pretty much satisfied knowing that my hunch of j.HP being able to be used in that manner turned out to be true haha. It definitely has a sick hit box though…like, you could develop set ups that are very hard to AA or even force the opponent to block after a number of things. I was able to do a few different resets that gave Sakura like 2 frames to cr.HP Seth’s j.HP, and she only had 1f to do it so it didn’t trade.


#50

i hate people who play this game sometimes

Dan/Gouki unblockable (near corner/corner)
(Tanden Engine, cst.MP, cst.HP xx FADC forward, cr.HP (x2),) cr.HK, walk back 3-4 frames ~ jump over opponent, j.HK
Timing is a little different from Ibuki but easy enough to figure out. Walk back after sweep is fairly lenient, but timing it poorly results in Gouki being able to avoid it by not pressing anything or doing a well timed low normal.

I basically had the idea off of that other unblockable (dashio’s?) so it probably works on Cody and Hakan too. I think I’m pretty close to figuring out a mid-screen unblockable on Ryu but lolthree bars and figuring out the timing is proving hard. Potential set up if anyone else wants to look into it: Tanden Engine, cst.MP, cst.HP xx EX Boom xx FADC forward, cr.HK ~ (figure out something.) Looks like there is an unblockable somewhere because if you immediately jump towards Ryu, Seth’s j.HK has a very small window that determines if you cross up or not while putting you on the respective side. Another one in the corner is Tanden Engine, cr.HP (x2), cr.HK ~ walk forward ?f ~ head stomps. Walking forward in one window, I was able to block it both ways (usually an unblockable sign.) Doing it really late, you can hit all three stomps on him grounded and avoid mashed DPs. But I was getting bored of trying shit…


#51

I don’t understand this unblockable. Could you explain this combo (?) a little better please? cl.hp FADC to cr.hp doesn’t combo. Do you mean SB FADC? Also you are talking about hitting with cr.hp twice, not doing the move twice, right? Thanks.


#52

oh lol I took it out when putting in the little bracket to signify a way to combo into it…yeah, I meant cst.HP xx HP Boom xx FADC forward. And yeah, cr.HP hitting twice then linking into sweep.

edit: here we go


#53

(Corner) HP DP x3 ~ LP Super ~ back dash ~ jump over opponent, j.HK
"Beta" unblockable on Gouki in the corner. Can start with anything that doesn’t change timing too much (basically “not cr.HP” or AA.) So starting off a DK, cst.HP, j.HP, j.LK, j.HK, Tanden, whatever is fine as long as Gouki doesn’t get lifted into the air and the DP puts him in the corner.
Beta because I can’t do it reliably (not sure if Super link timing is lenient, but it must hit at a certain point and the final hit must connect “late.”) Not saying that it isn’t reliable yet because I was just getting fucking sick of sitting through Seth’s Super animation (LET’S TAKE THIS TO THE NEXT LEVEL.)
This unblockable concept can be done off of (anything near corner), Hyakuretsukyaku, Super. But I have not found a remotely reliable way of timing it yet.

Ultra 1 that pushes opponent to corner ~ dash forward ~ plink cr.MK ~ dash forward ~ jump over opponent, j.HK
Might be unblockable against Gouki. I can’t test this because Seth’s Ultra 1 lasts too long for the default recording feature, and I don’t want to pull my hair out with PC timing. But I managed to get the little hit graphics to appear like they do when the unblockable connects…

(Confirmation) Sweep, j.HK unblockable works on Cody in the corner (use Gouki timing, not Ibuki.)

Sweep, j.HK unblockable works on Guy in the corner. Except you use j.LK instead. Seth will not be hit by reversal EX Tatsu (it just goes through him somehow…) Again, use Gouki timing. Since the EX Tatsu goes clean through Seth, you can probably OS him too.

Stuff:

The third Yosokyaku (head stomp) still causes an untechable knockdown on grounded opponents, and the two stomps before it will often catch opponents trying to jump/back dash into a juggle. All three hits can still combo on grounded opponents, even if they’re crouching.This works on everyone as far as I can tell - but you must use a set up before hand and you must do the first head stomp extremely late. Otherwise, the second or third stomp will completely whiff or just won’t combo. Much easier to use against fatass characters though, such as Abel, Gief and Gat. The hit box on all of them reaches a lot farther than it would seem, but it is hard to work with such fast start up time + very low active frames…

If cr.LK, cr.LP, cst.HP works, cr.LK, cst.LK, cst.HP works. But cr.LK, cst.LK, cst.HP works on some characters that cr.LK, cr.LP, cst.HP doesn’t. I should probably look into this later because it always does more damage/stun and you can choose between DP or Legs. (example: Tanden, cr.LK, cr.LP, cst.HP doesn’t work on Sagat. Tanden, cr.LK, cst.LK, cst.HP does.)

Sometimes you have one of Seth’s frequently used light attacks whiff when it would normally hit. Try to figure what string that resulted from and where the opponent was: a good portion of the time, that attack actually needs to be linked and will hit meaty. This allows you to combo cr.MK on some crouching characters without a counter hit, and sweep combos if they’re standing.

cst.LP appears to have the least push back of all of Seth’s attacks on hit. Oh and it doesn’t hit anybody crouching reliably. Yes, nobody apparently. Sagat and Boxer can be hit with it, but it will only hit when they’re crouching as they do those animation bobs I was talking about.

cst.HK and cr.HP both do damage and stun on both hits. The damage part is not too interesting, but the stun could potentially be used to do post-KO stuns (Hyakuretsukyaku, in comparison, doesn’t apply stun until the move is finished.)

I can not find a single use for cst.MK. Absolutely nothing, short of hoping the opponent blocks cr.LP, cst.MK which is a decent SPD tick (but you have cr.LK anyway???) +3 on hit (aka leads to nothing), 0 on block (might as well end with something where you’re + at this range), less damage than cst.MP, 7f start up. No apparent applications for the additional start up and recovery frames with special cancels. Haven’t been able to use the frames for any timing set ups either…

Seth’s cr.HK knockdown, while untechable, appears to be unusually short. Also it only does 100 stun and 90 damage which is incredibly meh worthy with it’s start up, hit box, recovery, and frames on block. His forward throw puts his opponent on the ground for such a small time that Seth cannot actually complete a jump before his opponent rises…

Hyakuretsu uses different scaling rules from most moves in the game. The first hit is scaled normally. The rapid fire hits are then scaled on that - but not with the typical scaling. 100% when you’re under three hits, then 25% less for each two moves in the combo before hand. But it won’t drop below 25%. The last hit will use the same scaling as the first hit did, and then the scaling rules go back to normal.
So, for example: FA3, Hyakuretsukyaku will do 80% (1H) 100% (15H) 80% (1H) damage and 80% stun. If it followed the normal rules, it would do 80% in it’s entirety, or 80>70>60.

Speaking of scaling, you probably know this, but just in case: moves where you have to do additional inputs do count towards scaling. All DPs will do 100%, 100%, 80% when done in full if nothing else is done before them (or whatever scaling point you’re at in the combo.)

I think I mentioned it before, but Seth’s non-EX DPs do less damage after the first active frames…not sure if it’s the first frame or the first few active frames, though. I think cst.HP has the same property.

Remember the Blanka SPD unblockable (SPD ~ wall jump, j.LK)?
Try this: SPD ~ hold back until Seth moves ~ wall jump, button.
A lot of practical set ups with this against everyone. Experiment with it.

For a bit less damage and probably less stun, you can carry any opponent into the corner with your 3 bar EX DP combos mid-screen off of any big punish or Tanden Engine (a little farther, in fact.) Not “oh he goes into the corner” but “hyakuretsukyaku, stomps, DK reset.” The “trick” is pretty simple: Start with cr.HP, wait for Seth to recover, and link the EX DP. Then do your typical EX engine follow up. The timing is a little different for some characters (sometimes you have to cancel into EX DP at the end of the cancel window instead), but I believe it does work on everyone (NOT if the character is already cornered.) You can actually link non-EX DPs from cr.HP after the cancel window, but this is very character specific. Worth looking into though, because I’ve done cr.HP (x2), HP DP (x2), Stomp (x2), DK on characters that weren’t El Fuerte. Plus you can do that LP DP x3, EX Engine combo on some characters…not sure which ones or what the values are though.

Magneto Loop does not work on … himself, reliably anymore. I don’t know why, the j.HK just whiffs sometimes. You can use dive kick, but I don’t think it’s safe.
Also, while you probably know about the near ToD shit available with cst.HK, cst.HP. Any connected Tanden near the corner can do 403/720 for one bar (cst.HK, cst.HP xx EX Legs, Stomp x3, DK.) A follow up SPD, cross up j.HK, or fst.HP will stun him. Which results in a guaranteed kill for no additional meter: nj.HK, cr.HP x2, HK Legs, Stomp x3, DK. You can do this mid-screen too, but it’ll cost two bars for an FADC instead (Tanden, cst.HK, cst.HP xx Boom xx FADC forward, cr.HP x2, LP DP x1, Stomp x3, DK for 419/720.)

Sagat falls faster than most other characters for whatever reason. j.HK cross up can be blocked both ways quite often when he is in the corner, and many cross ups mid-screen suffer from this as well. j.LK will properly cross him up, but it must be done late. Also for some annoying reason, it does not seem to be possible to OS his TU with set ups that make the TU connect on the 6th (possibly even the 7th) frame. Yeah, I took the fact that he gets up slower into account when trying this (and HOLY SHIT was it hard to come up with a way to time those without moving.) He also seems to share a Guile oddity with his wake up animation where he seemingly always faces away from the corner when he gets up, then turns around to block when the opponent isn’t in that direction (not sure if it applies to the his actual hurt box.) Doesn’t appear to affect his ability to block…well it might just make j.HK a hell of a lot easier to block for all I can tell.

On that note, Yang falls slower than most other characters. Which explains why I can do EX Kicks, MP Lunge on him with Yun and almost nobody else. Might be a character specific combo on him.


#54

Tanden > c.LK, cs.LK , cs.HP DOES NOT work on:
Blanka
Chun-Li
Dudley
Guile
Guy
Juri
M. Bison / Dictator
Rose
Rufus
T. Hawk
Zangief

c.LK, cs.LK, cs.HP DOES NOT work on:
Abel
Balrog / Boxer (works if Balrog is walking forward lol)
Blanka (cs.LK whiffs on crouching Blanka)
Chun-Li
Cody (standing, works on crouching only)
Dudley
Gen (doesn’t work on crouching in Mantis stance only)
Guy (standing, works on crouching only)
Hakan
Juri (standing, works on crouching only)
M. Bison / Dictator (standing, works on crouching only)
Rose
Rufus
Sagat (crouching, works on standing only)
T. Hawk
Vega / Claw (standing, works on standing if Vega is walking forward lol)
Yang (crouching, works on standing only)
Yun (crouching, works on standing only)
Zangief

The only use I have for that is for an antiback dash OS against characters with bad backdashes like Ryu. Even then, you can still get s.MK OSed instead if you weren’t close enough. The reason it is good is because it hits them while they are still airborne so they have the guess low or SPD. Regardless, you are better off OSing c.HK or LK legs. But yeah, you are right that there isn’t a a real use for the move aside from tick SPD and frame traps…

This is the same with Ryu’s HP SRK and the like.

As far as I know, that combo works on Honda, Seth, Abel, T. Hawk, Dan, Ibuki, Yun, and Yang. It might work on other characters and it might not work on these characters if you don’t do a tanden before the c.HP


#55

cl.mk FADC allows you to do cl.mp cl.hp after FADC midscreen.


#56

cst.MP xx Boom FADC does too though


#57

Ok I’m feeling retarded here. What does the cs.lk part mean in notation?


#58

cs.lk = Close standing lk. I say cl. because the only close normals characters have in SF4 are standing anyway as far as I know. The cl differentiates between crouching and close.


#59

Yeah, so Seth’s Super is probably one of the most unexplored, unique, and downright confusing things in the game right now. I actually wrote nearly a page so far about it in the book. I also spent about three hours looking between the Evo monitor at the native resolution and the laptop with said text file, which was running at 1024x768 (on a screen that’s meant to be 1440x900.) Everything is a tad fuzzy now and I am a little worried.

Since I don’t know how much longer I should continue to look at any monitors before my eyes fall out, and I don’t feel like writing another essay. I’ll just throw shit that comes to mind, real condensed and partially designed to get someone that isn’t me to look at it sometime as well.

  1. The HP version does in fact reach just pixels short of full screen. It doesn’t catch -most- characters falling from jumps at that distance no matter how poorly timed they are, though.

  2. They added invincibility, and they didn’t. As far as I can tell, all versions - from 1-5f - have invincibility frames. I’m still figuring out how this shit works, but I had the most “fun” with the LP version. Now, for the LP version, frame 6 is where things get fun. First, the attack becomes active. Actually, it became active a frame ago, but due to a widely unknown bit, all of Seth’s Supers have a strange first hit that will not connect in most situations. They took 20 damage off of his Super, but it frequently looks like they took 30 because of that. Anyway, we know this is one of the last fireball traps left from Vanilla. Yet we don’t know shit about it, apparently.
    For starters, he doesn’t just absorb a fireball with his Super. He absorbs as many as they can possibly throw at him. Characters like Dee Jay and Seth can’t break the ball. Oni’s two hit fireballs occasionally get absorbed. Sometimes even his EX ones do. Ultras and red fireballs still blow it up though. But Oni’s U1, when done close enough, just counts as one fireball so you get off free every now and then. Getting dragged along despite not being a throw, getting hit by a strike attack with projectile properties. Oh, and those strike projectiles are constantly trying to negate enemy projectiles at the same time. Anyway enough about that. It’s about frames 6-80, baby. Here’s the challenge: hit Seth with something that isn’t an EX projectile / Ultra projectile after the LP Super starts up.
    Quick list of my efforts: Zangief - couldn’t grab with U1, Super, SPD, RBG. EX Flat went through him and I got punished. General Shotos Inc: Gouki’s MP DP counter hits him sometimes. Seth can hit him with HP DP sometimes, too. Otherwise, can’t SPD him, cant hit him, Ultra 1 goes through him or I get sucked in before it reaches him. Fat Kids Always Win (Rufus): Was able to consistently stuff it with EX Messiah at a very specific distance. Nothing else though. Viper’s U2, nothing. Seth’s U2, the Super won out. Counter Super! Which just sucks me in. Frame apart? Time collapses, we both get hit for 0 damage counter hits, and teleport through each other. Whack. It seems the only thing this Super doesn’t have is protection against other vacuum attacks, as Tanden Engine says no as long as he can come to play in time. **basically, Seth’s hurt box from 6f-80f turns into what can only be described as “sindustry magic”. **It stuffs Dhalsims Fireball Ultra, but if Dhalsim teleports behind Seth, neither of them can be hurt by anything short of him jumping to the other side again. If you are in front of Seth, and in range, hitting him is close to impossible. His hurt box turned into a little ball high in the sky that can’t be seen or some shit.

  3. Frames are lame. All frame data is generally off by large amounts with the Super. In addition, you can get much more time to perform set ups after a successful super if you make it hit higher in the air.

  4. Gimmicks. They are not actually gimmicks, look for a different way to apply them to your game. Here’s a hint: which character gets more than 100 meter with an untechable knockdown through jumping normals?

  5. EX BOOOOOOOOOOMS. -3 when you’re raping someone in a corner, anywhere from 0 to +2 when you are mid-screen. Could mean things for combos.

edit because Seth forums are dead and I don’t want to continue double posting.

Ultra 1 data (including invincibility properties):

Start up is 1+10. Hits in front of Seth on the 10th frame, travels full screen in roughly 16 frames. 1-12f invincible. After 12f, Seth is fully vulnerable to any and all attacks unless the Ultra connects. Well, except counters.

The Ultra is more or less a unique attack, but it is considered a strike attack when it deals with invincible properties, and will pass through strike invincible moves if the property lasts long enough. It is actually a medium sized hit box moving quickly across the screen, so it can miss opponents moving forward with decent invincibility frames. It also does not hit that high, so everyone can jump over the attack if they aren’t doing something beforehand. It does not act as a strike attack against counters or opponents who are considered airborne yet are still in range. It’ll catch them.

When the opponent is caught in the attack, he will get forcefully pushed to the other side of the screen (relative to Seth’s position.) As soon as the attack connects, Seth’s hurt box is pushed back very fast. How fast? Well, Seth himself has an incredibly difficult time stuffing the Ultra with his EX Booms no matter where he is or how early they’re done. Seth becomes fully invincible for all remaining frames a few frames after it connects - a relative while before the cinematic begins. It is actually fairly difficult to hit Seth out of his U1 with a fireball when Seth reacts with it. Most fireballs simply travel too fast or too slow to catch Seth with even the worst reactions. Sagat’s HP Tiger Shot is basically the only one with some sort of consistency that comes to mind. Guile can with his EX Boom, but he can already block by the time it interrupts the Ultra (only way I found out that Guile can is that I held forward, got pushed, and Seth still got knocked out of it.) The only way to reliably stuff the Ultra is to use an attack with enough invincibility or good timing of a low invincibility attack after the screen freeze. Though it does no chip damage, so you’re free to just block at close range or jump out of the way at long range…

However, there is still a very small window (which is hard to determine) where Seth can be knocked out of his Ultra 1 when it connects successfully. On the 13th frame (immediately after Seth’s invincibility frames wear off) you can stuff the attack despite it connecting. The attack needs to reach far and needs to be disjointed from your hurt box to the point that the Ultra cannot connect until at least the 14th frame (alternatively, have an invincible attack that lasts a certain amount of time and has at least one active frame when it’s invincible.) This is pretty damn hard to do, but I figured out a way to (sorta) easily test it in training mode.

Pick Zangief, set the dummy to Seth with U1, start it up and pause. Set revenge gauge and meter options to refill, then select record. When you unpause, do QCF+PPP and pause again. Put it on playback. You need to do this as fast as possible and it is annoying to set up sometimes. When you do it right, Seth will probably launch an EX Sonic Boom once then proceed to just continue to throw his Ultra 1 out. Pick the restart option, block the (now normal) Sonic Boom, and Seth will Ultra. Once you block it, do an EX GH to punish him, and then do another EX GH as fast as the game engine allows. EX GH is +1 on hit, starts up in 13f, one hit connects on frame 13, another hits on frame 14, goes into recovery on frame 15 and is invincible during 1-13f. You have one frame to do this properly (took me a couple of tries sometimes but mashing the shit out like I was Daigo worked well enough.) If you time it right, the first hit of EX GH will connect, then Seth’s Ultra 1 will interrupt it. Zangief gets pushed to the other side of the screen and takes no damage but is put into hit stun for a bit, while Seth eats a little damage. Will happen regardless of where you do it, and you can probably hit Zangief in this state if in the corner…(this is why I figure the invincibility period is not determined where the opponent or Seth is, but when it connects, and also why Sagat and Guile are the only ones who can somewhat reliably stuff U1 with their fireballs at full screen - they travel extremely fast, just fast enough to hit Seth during this window when you’re trying to react to Shots/Booms.)

It looks kinda weird because Seth’s Ultra 1 is the only strike attack in the game that puts them in this hit state, has invincibility frames on the first active frames and remains active after he gets hit (to my knowledge.) I guess Rufus technically has the effect, but EX Tornado doesn’t have invincibility while U2 has pulls them in and has pursuit properties on hit.


#60

lvl 2 focus > hard punch
the hard punch is unblockable for anyone in the cast