Are you talking about a combo?
Sorry if this is the wrong place for this, but I’ve been a long-time lurker and read most pages in Seth resource threads, and if I’ve come across the answer to what I’m looking for already, I didn’t notice it or something.
At any rate, I haven’t been properly able to find a real ‘compilation’ of setups. I.e. various setups for quick stand/non-quick stand after DP and legs. The only thing I’ve really seen when it comes to DP is meaty divekick or when they don’t get up quick, that, uhh, double divekick into SPD thing (but I haven’t seen any notes on how to do it to get a meaty SPD with proper timing.)
Also, after legs, from what I gather most people do PPP teleport, which is what I’ve developed a habit of doing, but still, is this the strongest alternative after legs to keep up offense/pressure and/or relatively safe? I mean, AFAIK, even if you do the TP at correct timing, you’re still like 0 or +1 (I think it was one of the two) and so you’ll still have trouble with 3f normals or maybe even throws? How do you guys follow it up properly?
Sorry if these questions are troublesome to answer, but I’ve been playing Seth for a few months now, and I guess these are the questions I’ve amassed at this point.
(Also, in the combo thread, I didn’t see combos such as cl.mp, cl.hp xx LP SB xx FADC, cl.hk, cr.mp xx MK Hyakuretsu listed with values - is it because it’s character specific, even though it’s for quite a bit of the cast? I mean, I’m not sure if that’s the best bang for the buck for 2 meters, but I didn’t find a compiled list of this information in that thread, at least - have I been looking the wrong place?)
EDIT: I guess what I’m asking is if there is a clear list of setups after legs/DP/SPD, instead of spread around the occasional post in the 33-page threads. I.e. anything from what that Ramza guy posted to the SB FADC j.d.mk, j.f.hk setup after SPD in one place?
If you were doing a setup for the whiff divekick -> SPD, people would see it coming.
After DP, I almost always do crossup j.hk/meaty divekick mixups. Mix in j.lk/empty jump -> SPD, and the occasional empty jump cr.lk.
DP FADC, EX SPD, tanden or cr.lp s.lk OS legs if you think they’re going to backdash.
You should probably be doing DP for setups midscreen, and the cl.hk -> cr.mp link actually reduces damage if you follow up with stomps.
Thanks for the quick response. The DP thing is good advice, thanks, I’ll try to mix it up with those.
Okay, so you don’t try to go for any normals after the TP unless you’re trying to OS a backdash? 'Cause that’s what I’m curious about, since it seems the only option I have to keep pressure up is to force a gamble (not that I’m complaining since it’s Seth, but I’m just wondering if that’s the only good (quote unquote) option?)
Thanks, I won’t do it, then! But that’s kinda what I’m wondering, is there a list of the most meter efficient combos in terms of stun or damage that I’ve missed?
You can mix in normals after fw teleport when you have meter to make them scared of DP FADC. You can OS legs or hit confirm into cst.HP. Depends on the match up really. If they have a 3f normal or invincible reversal that’s even remotely decent (ie Seth will get hit if he tries to use a normal) you are required to have meter if you want to use normals though. There are actually a lot of options after Hyakuretsukyaku outside of teleporting but none of them (including teleport) will put the risk:reward solidly in Seth’s favor without meter unless you’re able to follow up with head stomps.
cst.HK, cr.MP is worth doing against about half the cast after a Tanden Engine, just not in FADC combos (Kikuichimonji pointed out why.)
Thanks for the reply. I guess I’ll just have to try and condition more with DP FADC to make them scared of it. Is the reason you use DP FADC and not DP OS a spacing thing?
I see. But yes, that’s kind of why I was asking, 'cause I didn’t find values listed for combos including stuff like cl.mp, cl.hp, so I’ve been in the lab myself trying out stuff. Would’ve prob been easier to just look up the combo/scaling system andy just theorycraft it, but meh, I’ll get around to it at some point. : D
Thanks for the help, guys. And Breaker, thanks for all the work you’ve put in this thread. I read all of it even though I was lurking, and find your ‘research’ to be quite useful.
If you OS DP you are -3 if you dash in. This is a free punish for everyone in the cast. Back dashing gives up all pressure against most of the cast. Simply doing DP FADC lets you visually confirm stomps and is generally not punishable unless they have 1f attack ready (mind you, people who practice can punish you for trying to do something after this unless you have another two bars - but you still end up in their face without fear of getting punished.) Plus, some characters are actually too far to OS DP…really annoying when that happens.
That being said, you can OS EX DP with three bars if you feel like it. It’s a big gamble for all the meter you will burn, but a successful hit is 400-500 damage and 600 stun…
Seth’s damage/stun is pretty straight forward. If cst.MP, cst.HP works, it’s the best Seth has unless he’s facing himself (in which case he wants cst.HK, cst.HP.) cr.HP, EX Tanden combos are generally useful when you land a normal Tanden Engine - the opponent has to worry about getting stunned in the resulting mix up unless he’s an 1100+ stun character. EX Hyakuretsu is generally not worth using in combos despite the added stun unless you’re fighting Seth or Gouki. Hit confirming into cst.HP is by far his best hit confirm (and it’s pretty crazy damage for a fast hit confirm) but generally requires him to be point blank and does not work against everyone. cr.LK, cst.LK, cr.MP is his best hit confirm that works from a distance and can OS back dashes (although you can’t use cst.LK against Claw…and someone else…forget…) but cr.LK, cr.LP is generally safer since it leads into a chain. Comboing into Super/U1 is generally never worth it unless it’ll end a game or put them into a kill mix up. Might change if I can figure out a way to test unblockables (but for now they last too long lol.) However, that doesn’t mean you should pick U2 or forget about his Super. I’d only recommend U2 against Cammy…otherwise U1 just shuts down way too many options and gives Seth a free, damaging mix up. His Super is probably the best utility Super in the game…one of the few that still functions as a true fireball trap, shuts down zoning, gives him a mix up, punishes many otherwise safe attacks that push the opponent to a safe distance, OSes a lot, does a ton of chip damage, and more stuff I’m still figuring out (practically impossible to reliably stuff it for some reason, lol?) Seth builds meter pretty fast though, and does get a lot of options with meter, so it’s okay to just use meter as it comes regardless. EX DP, EX Tanden, … is generally his most damaging punish - but cr.HP, EX Tanden does far more stun because of scaling.
Also, unless it’s going to kill the opponent - double FADC combos are generally not worth the meter spent outside of punish situations. Hit confirming them kills the scaling.
There are some other hit confirms but these are generally character specific and mid-combo meaty which are annoying to remember and usually don’t outdo cst.HP anyway.
Hey, thanks for a detailed reply. I got some stuff to work on now, and you guys helped answer the questions I had (so far!)
Guess I gotta practice a bit now.
If anyone has a spare minute, would it be possible to get a short listing of the unblockables seth has? Right now I’m using only 1, and its the one that works vs gouki/dan/cody/…hakan i think(?). The hyakaretsu in the corner, dash once, jump twice and j.rh. I’ve also used the SPD --> wall jump, j.lk vs blanka. Other than that I’m not sure what else he has. I’m super interested in any on ibuki, as I’ve seen a few people mention that.
Thanks in advance of course.
cl.hk cl.hp works on Abel doesn’t it?
well srk auto-tags media links now i guess…
i’ll make better videos of these soon
^ Big thanks man. Really working hard on my Seth atm. Much appreciate all of your posts as well.
backthrow (into corner) > c.MK > divekick (at peak of jump arc)
Divekick hits same side, but Seth lands in corner. Can combo c.LP after divekick hit.
reverse blockable on:
Gen (whiffs if not blocking crossup)
Zangief (couldnt combo c.LP)
cross up on:
Juri (whiffs if not blocking crossup)
M. Bison (Dictator)
El Fuerte (whiffs if not blocking crossup)
NOTE: I did NOT test reversals, if crouching, if jumping, dashing, normals, etc. for this setup, just which side Seth hit.
And speaking of back throws into the corner, Dashio had an interesting setup here:
After a backthrow into the corner, if you hold upforward you will land on the same side (outside of the corner) on everyone except:
You have the option of landing in the corner even when you held upforward. You can land in the corner by delaying your jump OR you can whiff a normal just as you are landing, to end up in the corner. j.LK is preferable seeing as how Seth doesn’t make a loud noise when he performs the move. The most I have heard from him was a “hmph” and that was every once in a while. Food for thought I guess.
i found this unblcokable, and i didn’t want to take the time to check if it’s in these two pages because i don’t have the time. (opponent in corner or near): hyakuretsu, crouch, jump as soon as you see seth starting to crouch, dive. opponent must quick stand.
only works on seth so far. doesn’t work on chun-li zangief. an “unhittable” on guy. (either way he holds, he blocks)
Do these still work in 1.04 of ultra??
What is outdated and what is not?