I am a Dictator main but have been working on my Seth for a little while…the main problem i am running into is that i am used to playing footsies just to survive and with Seth i am not really sure how to approach his footsies game…i have been using alot of crouch medium kick, tanden engine, and dash up spd but other than that my ineptitude is killing me
Seth doesn’t want to play footsies, he has j.hp. Don’t try to play fair. Only play footsies when forced to, such as vs a crouching Balrog or Blanka. Otherwise abuse j.hp games. If they start DP’ing bait it out and punish.
Abuse cr.mk xx lp Tandem Engine as a poke to get mixups going. If they start jumping out of it or reversal’ing do empty cr.mk’s to bait.
Cr.mp buffer mk legs is okay as a counter-poke.
Seth’s s.mk is his best footsie poke. It is nowhere near as good as Dictator’s but it has good range and becomes better when combined with abusing j.hp and sonic boom pokes. S.hk has a bit more range and better damage but is risky as a poke because of its recovery time. Cr.mk is technically better because it’s faster but s.mk is more useful as an offensive poke because it’s a standing poke. Cr.mk is a more defensive poke.
Against tall characters that can’t duck it s.mp somewhat replaces s.mk because it’s faster and has better recovery. A bit less range though. Similar to Guile’s s.hp in use but not as good.
s.hp is a great answer to opponents trying to bulldog you but is not useful against a blocking opponent because some characters (mostly charge characters) can punish it on block. Also it has some risk involved because if they focus it or jump over it they get a free combo. You need to make them scared to focus or jump in before s.hp is useful.
Unlike Dictator Seth’s walk speed is ass so you have to use dashes or dive kick jumps instead of walking a lot of the time.
I dont think it is smart to play footsies with seth, not because his footsies tools is weaker compared to others (which is the truth), but because seth wants to either be really close or really far. There is no middle man here, Seth needs to play at extreme edges to be a threat.
The only character in which footsie battle is required or a necessary need is the Seth vs ryu. While we all know seth has better keep away and zoning tools, he lost his threatening trap with U1, forcing him to use much closer approach. Playing footsies with ryu included the use of pokes such as St.:mk: and St:hk:, as well as the Cr:mk: xx legs to punish an whiff attempt (major part of this footsie game, since it pushes to corner).
While Seth uses footsies in every match up, it is only for brief moments since he can not keep up the preasure, nor he can risk to be in the dange line. In that ryu match up, being closer gives Seth much more damaging options which he is in need, but being really close opens the threat of SRK FADC Ultra1, which is painful for seth.
If you want to know why most Seth players avoid footsies is because of Mr. Masters: [media=youtube]6uZWArSOmCc[/media]
I’ve been just poking my opponents to frustrate them into making a mistake. I don’t consider myself to know at all what footsies is like, but I work around it.
Seth has footsies?? I never knew. I’ve never done footies with him ever lol. probably the feel of the character.
I think everyone pretty much covered it… Seth has bad footsies, so it’s not even really worth trying to ‘do’ footsies unless absolutely necessary.
The best footsie tools seth has is probably st.mk or cr.mk both of which are really slow and kind of suck unfortunately he’s no gill
his walk speed makes me scared to try to use footsies with Seth. Poongko has a somewhat good footsies game with Seth if you watch his videos. LOL sometimes it just looks like hes spamming attacks instead of doing combos, which is what he could possibly be doing, but it looks nice.
You don’t have to be close to Ryu. s.hp, j.hp, ultra, EX Legs, Shoryuken, and Sonic Boom is potentially all you need. You can punish Ryu’s hadoukens on reaction with 1 EX bar or closer with j.hp. Ryu can only do this with ultra or super. Ryu wants to play footsies with you so he can land a cr.hk and get a mixup going. Don’t give it to him.
Like you said being close is risky because of SRK FADC ultra. Mixups aren’t worth it unless they’re relatively safe like DP FADC shenanigans or crossup -> cr.lk blockstrings. If you condition someone to block then you can start SPD’ing them but I wouldn’t do that as the default option unless you have an idea of the opponent’s mindset.
I acknowledge your statement, I also agree that Seth is weak in the footsies department, and should be avoiding imeediately to avoid losing momentum or getting knocked down.
What I ment with the “Foot battle, Seth vs Ryu”, which I am at fault for not clearing it up, is that sometimes in the match, Ryu can force Seth to use footsies if chance permits for him, like avoiding cornering yourself, but it could be just for a moment, simple trades of pokes, which still puts seth at a disadvantage regardless. Seth then seize the chance to backdash or teleport away to reset the flow to zoning.
In the Seth vs Ryu match, Seth can get his damage through smart zoning, using like said above, St.:hp:, J.:hp: and Ex 100 legs of destruction, and playing close is good due to high damage output through smart mix ups and random shenanigans once in a while, till Ryu nails the 2 bars, forcing Seth to play safer and more cautious, focusing on baits and finding a way to force ryu to use meter (fireball wars, usage of EX hadouken perhaps).
In these two stages, jumping from zoning to rushdown sometimes puts you in Ryu’s Footsie zone, with his overrated Cr.:mk: xx Hadouken, which can be EX flashy kicks on block before hadouken part gets you. Thats what I ment by using some of Seth’s pokes to push Ryu away, while using Seth’s Cr.:mk: xx wow legs to punish whiff lows if chance permits.
However, these are forced positions which can handicap Seth’s momentum, and can last for mere seconds (still game changing seconds), so like you said in your first post, Dont play fair, let them do the hardwork, while you enjoy and relax with Jumping :hp: :D. Just don’t panick when you are forced to fight with footsies, just go with the flow and find that one opening. Hope I helped, sorry if I was not clear enough.
I /facepalm every time I use st.mk against a blanka player instinctively forgetting that it whiffs his damn hit box if he crouches and then I eat a punish. Sometimes I only use footsies to get in range and bait an attack so I can start my rush down, otherwise… forget footsies as Seth for the most part.
Yea but Poongko’s execution is ridiculous, so he can get away with excessive focus attacks (which he basically uses to “poke”).
I really want to see what he can do at a place like Evo. He still strikes me as a bit raw. Online Tony and Sabin might have the best Seth around, but Poongko’s offense sometimes looks other-wordly.
Thing is, in most of these videos of Poongko he jumps in all day and doesn’t get anti-aired. Doesn’t work like that offline.
I think it’s clear he plays a lot of scrubs online, so fair enough, but he’s capable on the big stage. I just wish he’d learn some D.
Earmuffs, Poongko! Earmuffs!
I like that every single person here read the title and lol’d inside almost instantly.
Footsies=Suicide. Get counter hit and die.
yeah if you don’t know how to use footsies, this could happen. Footsie use, like on even ground, isn’t the best idea. But throw in a c.MK after c.LP chain, and you’ve expanded on your pressure. Of course don’t do this all the time, or even frequently. But you can bank off of other people just knowing that possibility, and going for DP on this sort of educated guess.
Seth’s greatest footsie tool is standing still. scarecrow style.
Those words were my exact thought when I saw this thread title.
Basicly Seth can use j.HP in place of any kind of footsie game; as with such terrible walk speed, ‘meh’ normals (might even have been good with some walk speed behind them) and a ridiculous life situation; footsies with Seth isn’t a winning battle.
To be constructive though:
The other thing he can do is jump at them and then Dive Kick as low to the ground as possible, it can land on lows they stick out and even if they block, it has allowed Seth to by-pass the footsies and be able to do something up close. It’s no good if the opponent expects it might be coming though, you have to suprise them by demonstrating other options (rather than everything else just being a bluff) so you don’t get AA’d. I’m not completely sure if this still works in SSF4, as I’m only familiar with vanilla Seth.
Seth’s dive kicks have 4 more frames of startup and a slower descent (feel like they have a weaker hitbox also), so they are much easier to react to.
this not really true…u got to find why he wasnt anti-aired…first of all his amazing rush down abilities…2nd almost every time when he jumps either its a cross-up…or he performs a divekick at a distance where seth could have crossed-up with jump hk…so less reaction time to anti-air…and even daigo and mago didnt anti-air seth alot in recent matches against (hiropon)seth…because they were using divekicks very smartly…and poongko’s execution as well as his predictions/judgment are very strong…noticed he wud focus attack dash in spd…and then focus attack dash in dp fadc…crouch lp spd next time…so he is very smart and tht confuses alot…u cant jump cuz of dp…u cant stay there coz of spd…hiropon though plays a lot like all japanese play…get in have some lead go back and zone…
few vids of seth against daigo and mago…and they r masters at anti-airing yet they didnt many times…last one is mago(sagat) vs poongko(seth)
Lol, there’s a thing called backdash and reversal ex shoryuken.