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Are you 100% certain that Seth has 4 frames of landing lag where he can’t block at all? I heard from other people that the 4 frames recovery is divided into two parts, 2 frames where you can’t block at all and 2 frames where you can only tech throws and block. This still makes it theoretically impossible to safe jump 3 frame DPs, because if you are active and in the air on frame one you get hit on frame three, which is the last frame before you can block.
If taken at face value, Seth having 4 recovery frames means he can’t safe jump Sagat. But I’m pretty sure I have safe jumped tiger uppercut.
One thing to consider is that it might be possible to ‘safe jump’ with neutral j.hp/j.hk, even against people with 3 frame DPs. You time your j.hp so that you land on frame 2 or 3 of their wakeup. If they DP, your arms will magically disappear, and even though you are in landing lag, their DP will whiff for a few frames because of spacing, allowing you to block (Or OS DP/EX Legs to catch a backdash/whatever). I’ve heard that some characters have setups that allow them to safe jump when jumping forwards, even against 3 frame DPs, by spacing their jump correctly.
Against Abel you just have to time your safe-jump later. He’ll get hit out of EX TT, you’ll beat EX CoD with a cr.lk, EX Falling Sky will whiff, and EX Roll can be OS’d against anyway.
Does hp OS Tandem Engine punish teleports? If it hits meaty (because they’re invincible) it should beat backwards teleport. You could combo into cr.mk xx hyakuretsu maybe.
I did some more testing with Sagat. I found that I AM able to safe jump Sagat but still can’t OS EX DP; his uppercut hits me every time. These are very strange results… until I reread your first paragraph. Sagat must be hitting me during the frames where Seth can’t do anything BUT block/tech.
I tried your vertical jump OS against Ryu and it does work. However, Ryu can just backdash to safety and punish Seth’s whiffed DP. I’m looking only for setups that can’t be escaped in any way that can punish Seth. That’s why I’m also discounting things like OS Tanden. However, OS EX Legs could be a possibility against setups that I consider to be failures due to backdashing.
As for Abel, he can still EX roll to escape and punish any OS move. At best, it could be possible to safejump Abel.
It is possible to safe jump 3 frame DP’s. I know of one example with Guile. He has a safe jump that’s b+throw > wiff backfist > jump towards+rh. Here’s the wierd thing though, this only works as a 3frame DP safe jump midscreen. If you throw Ryu into the corner, wiff backfist, and jump at him(guile comes in at a higher angle) he will be able to DP your safe jump attempt. This safe jump is easy to perform as it requires no “waiting” in between moves.
I dunno if this can work with any other characters safe jumps. I’m just throwing this out there. Might get some ideas from this.
OS SPD beats everything but his backdash. At least, I know it does with Zangief versus Abel.
Exactly. I’m looking for OS setups that beat EVERYTHING or at least do not end up in Seth taking damage.
Gilley, thanks for the help. Given Kikuchimonji’s statement about the 2+2 frames of recovery, it looks like a much larger chunk of the cast can be safejumped against, but the number of characters that Seth can get away with option selecting a DP hasn’t increased since the original post.
It could be possible to OS EX Legs so that the stick is in a blocking position if the opponent attempts a 3-5 frame startup move, but I need to do more testing to see if that can be escaped and/or punished by other means.
Update: Seth now has an inescapable option select against Sagat!
Jump Roundhouse ~ Jab Tanden
If Sagat attempts a Jab/Strong/Fierce/EX Tiger Uppercut, Seth will block. If Sagat attempts a backdash, the Tanden snatches him. If Sagat does anything else, the Roundhouse connects.
I’m going to have to overhaul this thread in the future… after I’ve re-tested the entire cast. Thanks Kikuchimonji!
EDIT: Tested the cast (rather, the characters that the DP OS don’t work on) using the sweepmax and backthrow setups, substituting Jab Tanden for the DP. Guile and Sagat work. Dan works if you use Legs to catch his backdash, since his backdash is fast enough to avoid Jab Tanden and will allow him to get a free jump in combo on you. **Cammy ** works unless she uses a backfist… and will Cammy players ever think to try that? Fei Long would have worked if it wasn’t for his EX Chicken Wing, which even beats out EX Legs. Blanka would have worked if it wasn’t for EX Rainbow Roll, which caused both Tanden and Legs (all strengths) to whiff.
Cammy and Sagat allow Seth 2 frames of leeway while Guile and Dan allow 1.
Do you really land sweeps with Seth?
Not really. I was just trying to find all possible setups.
Just popped in to say that j.hk OS hp Tandem Engine is very nice versus Vega backflippers. If you jump in at the correct timing you’ll catch either version of the backflip and tag him with j.hk if he backdashes. This isn’t a safe jump otherwise he can backdash and recover in time to block. I don’t know if reversal EX Scarlet Terror will catch you then.
I came to the same conclusion about Vega, though I’m 99% sure I tested EX Scarlet; it loses to Seth’s jump Roundhouse in that situation.
Okay, so you know that bullshit dive kick vortex setup that Akuma has where you can’t DP the dive kick? (for example, forward throw double dash lk/mk (?) demon flip dive kick) I figured out you can do the same thing with Seth, off of either a knockdown or a reset. Basically what you do is you do a dive kick that will almost whiff over them. If they do a reversal uppercut it will either whiff entirely or get stuffed. (Edit: For Ryu you want to do the dive kick a little lower down than that, otherwise lp DP wins or trades. The spacing on this is hard, if you do it low hp DP can trade and too high lp DP can win.)
I set Seth do do cr.hp xx lp shoryu -> stomps and then do a meaty dive kick and did the reversal myself.
Ryu hp DP - It gets stuffed or whiffs.
Ryu lp DP - It gets stuffed
Sagat hp TU whiffs
Sagat lp TU gets stuffed.
[*]Blanka up ball whiffs (punish with ultra?)
If you don’t think this is sexy, I don’t know what you want.
Note: The timing for Sagat and Ryu is different because they are different heights.
Edit: The timing for Ryu is really hard. I don’t think it’s worth it. But it works on a lot of different reversals more easily.
Ryu’s timing was fairly easy to get down for me…the “problem” is that my opponents block it. And of course that’s not really a problem, it’s awesome.
well it is a problem if you mistime the dive kick, if it is too high seth is at frame disadvantage, but luckly, since the dive kick is from reset/knockdown you can be certain about landing it.
I do vs. Ryu sometimes, it’s your closest thing to a good footsie tool against him. Has a bit more range than low MK, safe unless he has super.
Also, if you predict a jump-back air fireball from Akuma, you can PPP teleport and sweep him. Low MK usually whiffs there IIRC.
And it’s the most reliable way to punish Gief’s lariat, although that shouldn’t be an issue anyway.
Thanks for this thread, everyone!
Are there any videos up of Seth’s various Option Selects?
Option Selects make no fucking sense.