Setting up IAT bnbs in commbat

dhalsim

#1

So i noticed that Sim has vortex. but I’ll get to that in a minute. What I wanna talk about is landing IAT in commbat. As I play Sim more and more and get his timing down better, I am realizing how easy it is to set up IAT combos.(you say yeah against scrubs) but NO im also talking about generally seasoned players. So first thing I like to setup especially against fireball characters is tele in pretty quick at the start of the round, I mean not first thing, but pretty fast none the least. This makes the other player worry right off the bat about you doing random teleports in on them. So they will slow down and start trying to react to you rather than throwing fireballls or Exing through you fireballs, because they are looking to punish your random teleports in. You can use their pause(because they want to see if your gonnna tele in or not before they do anything) to throw fireballs that they have to react to instead of you reacting to them, which puts them into Sim’s gameplan not theirs. Once you get them reaacting to your fireballs it sets up you IAT bnbs easier. If they throw a fireball to counter your already thrown fireball you can pretty much IAT on reaction and land a nice bnb combo, if they block you can spot them blocking with enough time to IAT in usually and land a bnb. Be carefull if they have meter though because they can punish you easily(well most the cast can). Watchout for people who start jumping back fierce on reaction to your fireballs because if you IAT in they will land on your head. If they are reacting by jumping back then further conditioning may be needed to get them to stop(or you might not be able to land and IAT bnbs on them). I think I covered that enough to draw a picture of what im talking about.

Now I’m gonna talk about the vortex. So the vortex only works on ppl who have no meter, bad exection(if they have bad execution and you know it then who cares if they have meter), or dont know how to block your fireball traps.(pretty much everyone online, and lower to medium level tournament players, because high level players know how to block it.) The key parts are that they have no meter and are knocked down.Specifically you want them to be knocked down at half screen, maybe a step further away or so, So anyways after you score your first bnb(j.hp>b.mkxxyoga fire) or land a back throw, throw another fireball and they have to block it, if you have good enough execution you can IAT in for another fireball trap, if it lands which it usually does, rinse and repeat until they get dizzied. Some characters because of their small size will slide under you when the fireball hits but it is still comboable you just have to see it and throw your b.mk the other direction.


#2

No offense, but if you have to qualify a vortex by saying “it only works on people who suck and have no meter” it’s not really a vortex. That particular tactic has been used basically since the game first dropped. It works now and then, but it’s not exactly something you want to base a game around.

As for your opening strat, I guess that works ok against scrubs, but I generally don’t want to put myself in a risky position early in a round against a good player if I can avoid it.


#3

well thats like ssaying akuma doesnt have a vortex because you can ex pc out of it or ex dp out of it.
and for the second part… you missed what im saying, i’m not saying tele into the corner or something, im saying the second you get a feel for your opponent, which is usually pretty fast for me, i dont know if it takes you a couple of games. but i cant usually guage them in about half a round, so maybe its only easy for me,w/e. take it or leave it i dont give a shit guy, but all this I posted works like a charm for me, just wanted to put it out there to see if anyone else could get some usse ooutta it too, cause i never see Sims doing it, and it seems like a really good way to keep pressure with sim.


#4

Well akumas vortex is good because it has several options (5?) That all lead back to the same situation. Sim’s trap isn’t because for one, it’s not hard to block, and two your options are limited, and anything other than IAT behind - bnb doesn’t knock down, unless you count throws, which i don’t.
The reason you don’t see other sim’s constantly doing it because all it takes is a correct block and you’re in the shittiest place to be with sim, up close. It’s better to maybe try it once, then vary what you do with tele in front, tele backwards, df.fierce/strong or jb.fierce etc. That’s also why you don’t random teleport in to get a feel for an opponent, because reaction jab to that is easy, then they have the advantage with you coming out of a reset.
It works like a charm online and against people that don’t understand you block the character and not the fireball. If you ever get past that stage you’ll understand that and maybe you will “give a shit” guy.


#5

ok i get that its more of a trap than a vortex. and i do give a shit, I just dont give a shit about someone hateN and not giving any viable reason. And also about the random tele, well sometimes its good to be a little random because it throws off your opponet. It is even stated in the footsies articles posted on SRK. not that that is were i got that from, but reading it did reenforce some of my gameplay. I’m not saying do it alot im saying once.1 time just to keep them on their toes a little. and if your in a tourney setting you play more than one game so it can be good for conditioning.


#6

Obviously you need to be random with Sim (or any character) sometimes, but I don’t think the randomness should entail a MASSIVE risk. Like, if you randomly throw out a poke you havent been using, or if you randomly use a string that isn’t familiar to your opponent, chances are you’re gonna be fairly safe. But if you randomly teleport in on your opponent, you are basically putting the round on the line (against a really good player).

You play Sim/Bison, right? It’s important to REALLY digest the fact that these characters are played in very different ways (and with very different mindsets). Bison is all about taking risks, and Sim just isn’t. With Sim, you have little health and poor options in close quarters – low risk/low reward is the name of the game, imo. Just play keep-away.


#7

Yeah I see what your saying, So on the same note about IATing in combat, it seems that a player that is determined not to get IATed in on will just jumpback or jumpback fierce at every fireball you throw. So you cant evey land and IAT bnb on them, for the entire game they do this. But the plus side is that it really seems to set up more for Sim anyways, because essnetially they end up in the corner. I never realized how bad it can be to be pinned in the corner by Sim until yesterday. I was playing an Akuma player and once I found the perfect mid range distance he would loose so much life trying to get out of the corner. His s.lk and mk and mp do so much work on an opponent stuck in the corner, as opposed to ususally when i get someone cornered I give them more room, but lately iv been hovering around max medium poke range on cornered opponents who wont let me land a IAT bnb, and it seems to do just as much if not more work than the IAT setups I am talking about in the beginning. Sorry if this is already posted and known knowlege, It just seems like I see more Sims that want to whore the heavy attacks and be more at max s.hp range than medium range. Which isnt bad, I was just stating on a cornered opponent it is much harder on them if you stay at max medium poke range when you push an opponent into the corner with fireballs or pokes. UNLESS you have ultra or super then one extra step back never hurts anything for making those two a little easier to setup.


#8

I did give a viable reason. Porting is risky. Taking risks early in the match is the last thing I want to be doing, especially in round one.

A big thing I think you’re not getting about Akuma’s vortex vs Sims IAT shenanigans: Akuma wants to be up close most of the time.


#9

Yes, I agree with Starcade on this one. I’ve been playing a lot of bison of late, so have been neglecting my Sim (:cry:) but, a teleport into harms way, with the possibility of catching your opponent off guard and landing a half decent dmg combo is not worth the risk associated with the manouver.

Sim’s game relies on zoning and spatial awareness- the vortex becomes a part of this, but generally is only used with full super/ultra/both meter, as the reward/risk ratio is more acceptable.

If you zone correctly, you will force your opponent to maybe block a fireball, or become predictable with his fb’s…that is when you capitolise with your IAT -> jb.HP, b.mk xx lp.yoga flame -> super (if you have it) then ultra (if you have it) and repeat the IAT shinnanigan. Like I say, you can just fire off the IAT randomly…but if you eat a jab, srk, anything really- then you are in a horrible position, and against players of your ability/higher- you put yourself in harms way just once with sim…and you can expect to lose, and lose hard. Akuma on the other hand, has MANY options if put in trouble, so he does not have to worry about fighting up close, as that is definately his strong suit.

Sim does not have a vortex game like fuerte/akuma/etc.

…might become different in SSF4 though with the new ultra…will have to wait and see!


#10

Pretty much I IAT away from the opponent a lot and throw out a lot of random pokes and concentrate on some other tactic. When I feel that the player is getting too offensive minded with the jump ins and taking risks, I IAT in for a BnB, and if it doesn’t work I’ll leave that alone for a while and play keep away. I’ll never try to IAT on someone who is turtleling.

You also want to try to set up fireball traps. Every once in a while I’ll test out my opponents by throwing a yoga fire and doing an IAT away to see if they will attempt a counter jab as a way of getting information to see what kind of IAT counter they will throw. If they jump back or throw a c.HP or whatever.