SF2 WW Frame Advantage / Frame Count Question



I’m really new here and this is my first post, so I apologise in advance for my question. Please don’t rough me up too badly…

I’ve just started playing some SF2 WW and I’m really enjoying it. When I’ve been taking a break from being beaten up I’ve found it really interesting to read some more about the game and how it works through Shoryuken Wiki’s awesome guide - and I’ve got a question that I was wondering if anyone would be kind enough to take a look at for me.

It’s to do with the frame advantage and frame count data that appears on Ryu’s character page, though after a quick look it also seems that my question would apply to the other characters in that game, as well as many of the other guides for SF2 WW’s sequels.

In the guide it gives the hit stun frame data as follows:

Jab/Short = 14 frames
Strong/Forward = 19 frames
Fierce/Roundhouse = 23 frames

and it goes on to say that, in general, block stun is one frame longer. So, 15, 20 and 24 respectively.

In Ryu’s character info it gives a breakdown of each move’s frame advantage, along with a detailed frame count and a simplified frame count for his start up, active and recovery phases. But whenever I try to understand how the frame advantage has been calculated - by adding the frame count from his active phase (even subtracting the first frame) to his recovery phase and then subtracting that total from the hit stun / block stun values given in the guide - I never seem to get a consistent answer that tallies with the given frame advantage for that move and that can also be applied to others.

I’m particularly confused with his Close Standing HP and his Crouching HK. They both have the same start up frame count, then there’s a difference of two frames in the move’s active phase in favour of the c.HK, followed by another two frame difference in the recovery phase, this time in favour of the cs.HP… but the frame advantage differential for the moves are a -8 vs. a +2?!

If there’s anyone out there both kind enough to not only have read all of this, but also to help me
understand where I’m going wrong in how the frame advantages are calculated for SF2 WW and why some seemingly similar moves can have such different frame advantages then I’d be eternally grateful to you.

Once again, my apologies and thanks in equal measure.