SF4: Dry Already?


#1

Here we are, just 6 months after the console release, and I’ve gotten to thinking. From that, I’ve started to wonder if we’ve already tapped the game’s system for everything it has to offer.

Why do I come to this conclusion? Two main reasons:

  1. With the way damage scaling is set up in this game, simple combos into Ultra are going to be the pinnacle of damage, and while pulling off Sakura’s 30-hitter takes infinitely more skill than EX Shunpukyaku -> Ultra, the latter’s damage beats it by a mile for less effort and resources. This stifles innovative use of the FADC system.

  2. Only 6 real new characters means that what you knew about the SF2 cast applies, for the most part, to IV. Further, because of point 1, there’s no real drive to push further and explore the new characters.

So, short of anything truly gamebreaking being found, I think we’ve pretty much wrung all we can out of this game.

What do you think?


#2

There might be a small surprise or two left in the game, but for the most part I think from now on this game will simply come down to who is the better player when it comes to the fundamentals of Street Fighter…

Which might not be a bad thing, depending on who you ask.


#3

i dont think so. with the game being so easily accessible, simple, and just plain fun to play, it will probrably stick around longer than you think

now if you are looking for something deeper, then you’ve probrably already stopped playing this in favor of blazeblue


#4
  1. sf’s never been about big combos (edit: true about alpha, but v-ism is the only reason for it). i don’t think the fadc system was ever meant to be the star of the show, fundamentals still mean a lot more.
  2. as the game goes on, the quality of players will go up. add that to your point, and it means that shenanigans will work less, and it’ll come down to skill and the metagame.

#5

There’s still TONS of competition available in championship mode and the game has been out a while - I think it’s going to last a while.

Then when they release the new version with T.Hawk and Dee Jay it will be even more popular - esp. if they nerf Sagat down to middle tier and everyone gets to laugh at him.

This. Big combos are more of a showing off tool and not something that is often used in tournament play often.


#6

I’d pay money for a Sagat nerf. Hell, I’d pay even MORE money to give Sagat a SEAN nerf.


#7

I’d pay money for a Ryu nerf - 20% of my games online are vs Sagat, but 40% are vs Ryu.


#8

The question wasn’t whether or not there is competition but rather has the system been tapped to it’s full potential. I think for the most part it probably has. As the OP said, it’s generally the simplest applicable combo that inflicts the most damage, so that is going to detract a lot of players from attempting to discover more complex tactics.


#9

If it’s dry, it’s dry because capcom sucks bad netcode dick. If the netcode was really good, I can gaurantee you there would still be a ton of players online.

The local scene is still there though. Online has died out.

EDIT: Oh, dry like that. I don’t think so. Jwong and Eduardo’s Rog come to mind. Their playstyles were very different from the usual Rog players. There’s a lot to still be learned about the whole game.


#10
  1. alpha series had big combos…
  2. sf4 itself is far from perfect
  3. i don’t think there is alot more to explore, the balance once again kills off many characters
  4. online sucks
  5. new version please, thanks

#11

I don’t know…

Sabre’s Sakura at Evo was pretty darn surprising.


#12

Dry like 80 year poonanny, far from it son!


#13

:wtf:


#14

**

  1. Fuck T. Hawk

  2. Fuck Dee Jay

3.Guy and Adon FTW

  1. Add a Custom Combo meter (optional, think Alpha 3)**

#15

I think that the loose inputs and loose input window are going to create some useful situational and (of course) character specific option select inputs that might not have been discovered by most players yet. There are already some innovative things that can be done with option selects, and I’m sure that more will be discovered as time goes on.

I think you are right on with that point about combos with Ultras though… I personally think they should increase the damage scaling on an Ultra if it was part of a combo to improve game balance. Make it do full damage if it’s used as a punish, but if you combo into it make the damage scaling rather heavy so that comboing into ultra isn’t the goal of every round for every character that can do it… There should be a trade-off there.


#16

I think the OP is quite right with his points about scaling and lacking further innovative use of the FADC system; however, I’m acknowledging what MrQuestions has said about option selects emerging.

Some pretty sweet ones are still being explored today, with some nice ideas forwarded by MrQuestions himself in the Akuma forum. I’m convinced there’s still more to be found in this game in terms of studying and finding exploits in the (retarded) input and leniency system. Tsuji Demons and Plinking comes to mind here.

But I’d also like to see something changed with the scaling and FADC systems that could allow some potential for more innovation in advanced tactics.


#17

Not gonna happen homey - the general reason for SF4’s success was nostalgia, and T.Hawk and Dee Jay are a part of that - nobody gives a shit about Final Fight characters (I’m speaking in general terms here, I always liked them).

I’m not sure how I feel about the FADC system - it really only benefits certain characters, mainly ones who don’t require EX meter to be effective - you generally won’t see Honda or Vega using FADC for anything.

I’m also not sure how I feel about FA’s in general - they’re certainly not overpowered or overused, but sometimes I think they’re a bit too easily countered by jab spam which makes newer players just give up on trying to use them at all.

Maybe this is the perfect level of balance so we don’t see a ton of annoying FA spam in every match, I dunno, but it feels like they could be a bit stronger or more ‘usable’ - right now you don’t need armor breaks to deal with FA’s.


#18

Adding anything to the engine is a dream you won’t see come true.

And besides, “Dry” is a subjective term. I’m sure everyones exact definition is a bit different.


#19

Well I’m in G1 on PSN, and all I have to say about the game’s popularity is: It gets lonely at the top. I thought since it’d take forever and a day to find a player in G1 final, that going back to ranked would be a good option. and it is if you’re just looking for somebody to play. but there aren’t too many skilled players around there.

Ultimately, that doesn’t make playing Ranked worth it to me as I don’t want to feel like my strategies diminish due to facing less skilled players frequently.

SF4 isn’t every fighting gamer’s dream game. I personally like damage scaling because it keeps competition reasonable. not “oh if you get hit with this combo, you’re screwed”. Sure that exists when playing against top tier easy ultra characters, but it also makes one reconsider their style of play.


#20

Here are some few issues for me personally…

  1. I am playing the same characters in CE over and over again…Special mention to Ryu & Sagat

  2. I feel Charged characters not named Balrog(Boxer) are weaker than Shotos in general…they just have less options…less use of their FADC…Less (or No) way to connect to their ultras.

  3. This game favors defensive style of play too much…I cannot stand the keep away & chase game AND the Staring at each other(Hard turtling) until clock runs out games…this is speaking as a player and an audience(I watch a lot of videos online)

Of the three, the last one is an issue… I suggest the following …maybe increase game speed just by a bit so it is harder to react?..or tighten up the reversal window?..have less moves punishable on block? map can be a little smaller?..remove or nerf some characters’s escape tools(Akuma’s back teleport, Ryu’s air hurricane kick, Seth’s teleport)?