[SF4] Ken: Why does EX-hurricane kick deal less damage than normal hurricane kick?


#1

I recently tried to practice a little around with Ken and after playing around with him in training mode, I realized that his EX-hurricane kick/tatsumaki does less damage then the non-ex (HK) version :confused:

Since stun seems to be the same for both, I wonder if I should use ex-hurricane kick in combos or use the normal HK version and save the meter for different EX moves.

I am just a bit confused, since it seems so far every EX move deals either more damage or at least juggles my opponent.
Probably I am overlooking something basic here, so if anybody could help me out, I’d be very thankful :pleased:


#2

Ken has all sorts of minor issues. But the advantage of EX Tatsu as far as I’m aware is how quickly it moves you forward.


#3

Ken’s EX tatsu recovers faster and is safer when blocked. It gives you a bit of frame advantage on hit to follow up with something afterward like a tick throw.


#4

it is better used for his mix-up game, and so that’s when you’d probably utilize it more. if the ex did more damage AND was used in a successful mix-up game, he would probably be more than a decent fighter in IV.


#5

It puts you at frame advantage on hit (and slightly less disadvantage on block) so you can make the person guess what you’re going to do. SRK, throw, block, neutral jump, etc. It does less damage because you have a good chance of getting another combo with more damage afterwards.


#6

Not all ex moves do more damage. Like most people said, its just faster with better recovery. Bet you never noticed that Ken’s 2 hit medium srk does more damage then the 3 hit flaming hands srk either, did ya?

Another good example is Zangief… ex spd has 0 start up, but does less damage then a fierce spd.


#7

as for why you should or shouldn’t use hk tatsu instead of ex tatsu. the first thing i’ll point out is that hk tatsu is -2 on hit (meaning combo’ing into that on gief is a free ultra, super or command grab for him) and then on the rest of the cast your putting yourself into a frame-trap for them to use by using the hk tatsu, where as if you use ex tatsu your the one with the frame trap. so with hk tatsu you can somtimes be punished and the rest of the time you have less options after the fact. where as after ex tatsu you have more options.

then of course you have the speed the 2 travel at, at certain distances doing cr.mk xx hk tatsu will either not combo at all (meaning your about to be punished hard) or you will only get the first couple hits to combo and then they will have a chance to block it… in which case they can punish you hard, where as there aren’t many if any spacings where the ex tatsu will fail to combo off cr.mk


#8

Thanks a lot for all the replies :tup:

Ooops, just tried it and it’s really true :crybaby: Well, at least I was correct in practicing my combos with the HP shoryuken I think, since MP shoryuken seems to whiff the 2nd hit sometimes if I am to far away… :wonder:

Wow, now I understand why the AI Zangief on the hardest difficulty was always able to command grab me after the HK Tatsu hit, I had to spam Shoryuken every time to stand a chance :wtf: Somehow I thought :" I must have the advantage because I landed the Tatsu!"


#9

Also lets say you punishing characters with large hit boxes. Don’t use HK tatsu after st.rh, because the first hit whiffs and its the one that does the most damage, punish big characters with st.rh > ex.srk otherwise you are missing out on damage, more Ken knowledge for your brain and also a way to completely avoid Zangeif at the end of the combo.


#10

Yeah, there seem to be a lot of little stuff that make Ken a less viable character in comparison to the top tiers. Hes a great character, but hes got all sorts of weird spacing issues and timing issues that drive his stock down. The -2 on hit is news to me, I never checked the frame data for his specials. I thought it was a clean wash after the hard tatsu making it 50/50, didn’t know he was disadvantaged for landing a combo >.< Although, I knew it would be death to tatsu Zangief because you’re supposed to avoid being close to him, and the tatsu - although more damage and more stun - just wouldn’t be a smart idea to risk 50/50 with gief.


#11

HK tatsu is -1, not -2. Still means free ultra or super from gief ( 1 frame start up on each) but if it was -2, gief would be able to get a regular spd everytime you hit him with hk tatsu.


#12

i’m pretty sure i have been snatched up a lot of times while holding up back for landing a hk tatsu combo on gief without thinking… i do see where the frame data says -1 but… yeah it’s just not adding up with what i remember


#13

I played a Geif last night and did the hit comfirm > hk tatsu to start the round off and I was gonna do the jumping hp overhead so I was holding up back and got piledrived lol. It has to be -2.


#14

Might be net lag…?