SFA3 - Honda


#1

I haven’t been able to find much info on him at all. The general opinion was in the newgroups that he was great in the BETA version, but was turned to crap for the final release. Was the BETA ever released as a rom?

I’ve been using Honda for awhile, and I’m unsure which ism is his best, alot of people say V-ism but how realistic is it that you are going to get the chance to land a headbutt VC into OTG ochio?

From playing Honda for awhile these things become noticeable…

Standing and crouching SP are high priority but are a tad slow

Standing and crouching FK are high priority, fast, and have good range and hit twice at close range, but rarely do I see people use it often, I’ve outpoked alot of characters with it.

What’s the best way to use the Hundred Hand Slap? I know it’s a very good move, since CPU Honda can kick your ass with it, but how do you get it out on demand? How many button presses in how many seconds? Doesn’t this wreck the buttons???

The Super Butt drop is completely invincible during the first hit, allowing it to go completely through pokes, and once I was able to get through a fireball with it, but the timing is extremely tight.

I think I saw the super butt drop with another super once, which causes honda to enter reel animation a few centimetres of the ground, although after the hit hes back on the ground, seems like a glitch though it doesnt seem to have any noticable effects.

The Two other Supers Honda has, appear to be not too useful, although the Super Headbutt does have block damage potential, as well has punishing long range lag and also in juggles.

I remember hearing about a recent japanese match involving Sakura and Honda, does anyone have any details?

Anyways, just something extra I decided to record my low level Honda skills against the CPU in Final Burn Alpha v0.2.94, to see if you can tell me what could be changed.


#2

no


#3

yes, the beta is 980629 either sfz3rj1 or sfa3rj1.

i know knack all about honda to be honest. and i never heard he was better in the beta. and even if he was he makes no difference.

things to remember about honda, jab headbutt has invincibilty frames, perfect for anti-air.

his j.fierce is godly, and you really should learn crouch cancels. even if you just start getting into the habit.

his forward buttsplash is a nightmare to fight against. it can be repeated making honda akward to hit. if you try and sweep etc, the 2nd buttsplash will win. the only escape i found was to jump into it, air-block and air-roll out.

anyway, honda’s not for me.

sub

btw, honda has an easy VC to land, VC3 (i think) s.roundhouse AA, buttsplash, torpedos.


#4

Nope, that’s not the beta. That’s a final version. Just an older revision. The beta version doesn’t have character introductions, endings and boss encounters.


#5

Funny, I always get the line, Honda is hard to use, but deadly once mastered, I’m just trying to find the proof that Honda IS deadly once mastered. He seems to need alot more work to string together his normals with the wide variety of angles, speed and coverage they all have.

I mean every single one of Honda’s air normals has a particular use I’ve found, and it seems like every one of Honda’s ground normals have a different application as well, although I’m not quite sure about his f+FK knee…

Basically it seems like in the air:

JP = corner trapper, jump-in tick
SP = Air-to-Air (opponent above)
FP = Jump-in or Air-to-Air
SK = Jump-in Tick, extends jump length(fireball avoidance), air-to-air, anti-anti-air
FK = Cross-up, close jump-in, reduces jump-length(pressure)
RK = Long Range Air-to-Air or Air-Ground Pressure

I’m still trying to figure out which is his best normal anti-air, standing FP, standing SP, crouching FK, standing RK, or maybe even f+FK. :confused:

From the a-cho footage I saw it seems like the other players were quite fearful of allowing Honda within close range, it’s the first time I’ve seen players trying to stay out of range of Honda, preffering to wait for a mistake or try safe pokes.

The Ochio seems to miss alot in play footage, it seems like Honda’s normal throws have more range, I just wonder why people seem to try and go for it so much, is the damage that much better? Also the CPU’s normal grab into buttslam into hundred hands is almost impossible to counter. I saw a japanese player try to go for Butt slam into throw/ochio, I’m wondering what the frame advantage is after blocked Butt Slams, and how easy people can reverse this tactic.

I was actually surprised the Japanese player tried to attempt the super orochi slam when he would have to know the range on it is pathetic and the super butt drop would do more damage, but I suppose he didn’t have time for a charge.

The Japanese players seemed rather fond of the jump-in FP into SP/FP Hundred Handslap, since crouching SK is Honda’s only cancellable normal, which means nothing but a close FP headbutt will even combo on the ground, as well I suppose the HHS combo will do more damage as well. I’m wondering how effective HHS is for dizzies…

Anyways more news to follow…


#6

Nice info… Good joob man. Keep it up :smiley: b


#7

Ok been practicing with Honda for a bit now, I realised that his crouching FP should be used very sparingly, as the lag time before and after can allow opponents to get in on him. Following poke strings up with crouching RK is better as it starts-up faster and causes Honda to move away from the opponent(during his spin on the spot), avoiding possible counterattacks.

Still having trouble figuring out which ism is his best, V-ism is quite good, with a VC JP+SK activation he can threaten an area about the length of his standing SP with his st. SP, repeated FP headbutt combo… He also is fairly good with his Anti-air standing RK, JP headbutt , repeated FP headbutts.

The main problems are his crouch cancels, they require some different timing due to the jump lag he has for the ochio throw.
This really cuts down on the amount of crouch cancelling he can do, basically any cc. above 2 reps usually requires a counterhit at the peak of someones jump.

After finishing any of his headbutt VC’s in the corner, if you can get a 2 hit SP headbutt at the end you can crouch cancel two reps of his crouch canceled FP to tack on extra damage. I’ve also found that a connected VC1 JP Headbutt started from around sweep range(possibly corner only) can enable Honda to start a extended cc. starting with jumping SP, but its not a very realistic option. I’ve also found that if the opponent is bouncing high enough at the end of a corner headbutt VC it may be possible for cc. SP repeat for more reps.

A-ism on the other hand avoids flashy techniques and combos and goes for straight damage and supers. It’s always beneficial to have meter since it allows Honda to AC and also it makes him much more threatening when he has two supers that can pass through fireballs, hit full screen or pass through pokes for 40+% damage. His guard bar is a bit longer in this ism as well.

The HHS is still impossible for me to get out on command, i guess my fingers just aren’t fast enough, but it always seems to start up easier after completing a SK butt drop into HHS in the corner which is a decent juggle combo. Also the HHS is useful for apply pressure after a sweep if the opponent is getting wise to crossup and tick attempts. I think the HHS is very important to Honda’s pressure tactics but I can’t really test it till I can get it to start when i need it. :bluu:

Final misc. stuff: I’m thinking jumping SP when timed perfectly may have longer range than his jumping RK on a standing opponent, not really useful but interesting.

Anyways enough rambling for now.


#8

Ok figured out that following poke strings up with the hundred hand slap is what takes Honda from being a slow fat guy with pretty good pokes to being a real threat. If anyone wants to master Honda you have to master getting the HHS out on command, he’s only half the character he could be without it.

The HHS his fastest and longest ranged poke, it causes nice block and guard damage, and if it hits, sometimes opponents can be dizzied with only one more hit.

Finally, A-ism honda seems just as good as V-ism, anyone who doesn’t know how to play against Honda gets nailed in V-ism, but if they are a good player who knows Honda, sometimes I think its better to go with A-ism, since jumping on a charged V-ism Honda is usually 50% life gone, or a perfect JP Headbutt if they dont have meter. But good players won’t try to jump in on Honda, which is why I think A-Honda’s extra damage and supers come in handy.


#9

from an old post


#10

Thanks for the post Buttermaker :slight_smile:

Anyone figured out the exact technique for getting the HHS out on command? I am still having trouble with it.

In other news, I’m starting to lean more towards A-ism Honda in terms of being the best version. Mainly because of his wide assortment of supers as well as the extra damage and guard bar.

I think both V-ism and A-ism Honda are both viable options, V-ism is simply if you want to counter VC, since Honda’s VC aren’t too damaging unless you have full bar or reach the corner for a crouch cancel series.

As I said before, I’m finding following poke strings with the HHS works wonders for chipping and pushing opponents away when you don’t want them in jump-in distance.

The Ochio throw has horribly short range and slower startup than a normal throw. When opponents are in close, its better to go for the regular throw or hold.

Wish I had the frame data for some of Honda’s stuff, it would really help to see if the Super Orochi throw is a viable attack.


#11

I’ve still been trying to get the HHS out on command, it’s fine if I do jump-in FP,SP,FP,SP,FP and then the HHS combos on Dreamcast, however it doesnt seem to work on emulator or arcade. Any ideas???


#12

Honda’s jumping FK has strange properties, sometimes it beats moves clean and other times it trades, I think it’s got to do with which angle the opponent is attacking the FK from.

Also Jumping FK can be used on a knocked down opponent, and if they try a reversal special, you usually end up on the ground blocking, otherwise you hit, and then follow-up with HHS, throw or cr. FK which leaves Honda at the perfect range for HHS or the normals cr. RK or cr. SP which both have huge priority, or try for a super to catch them poking or trying to jump away.

Try to always go for a cr. RK instead of a crouching FP, cr. RK knocks down AND leaves Honda in the perfect position for a cross-up FK, cr. FK mixup.

Honda’s Super Orochi Slam seems to have the range of Honda’s st. SK(stand right next to your opponent, and press st. SK, the distance away you were pushed to, is the Super Orochi Slams maximum range). I’m not sure if the range can be extended like Gief’s SPD, some SPD expert might be able to try this.


#13

Was at the arcade today testing out a few things with Honda.

Against most people, cross-up FK, followed with cr. SK > super, or throw, or cr. FK and then with Honda’s other options such as cr. RK, cr. SP, st. SP or Butt Slam gives him a pretty good up close mixup game. In the corner you can tick with butt slam into Honda 360 throw.

I as playing against a really good Z-Akuma today, which is where my weaknesses of not being able to 720 super, or HHS on command got me beaten. Without HHS or Super Orochi throw, opponents have no real fear of keeping close to Honda all the time and trading pokes. The Super Orochi throw and HHS are part of the reasons I think players were wary of letting Honda too close in the Acho footage.


#14

Have you tried the fierce HHS as a wakeup? I can get it to come out every time, not otherwise though. Give it a try.


#15

Yeah HHS works much better on Arcade and Emulator during a large amount of time when Honda is busy such as wake-up or during a Butt Drop.

However on DC if you press FP and during the FP animation press punch five times, the HHS will occur, this works during FP jump-in or any move that keeps Honda busy for you to do the five button presses.

On Arcade and emulator this doesn’t happen, which confuses me. Honda will just keep repeating standing punches over and over unless you mash like a madman, or keep Honda busy for a really long time, like Butt Drop or wakeup.

I just dont get it :confused:

Perhaps its the emulator I’m using FBA


#16

I’m using MAME and it’s exactly the same as you describe.


#17

In the two Honda acho matches I saw, it was both times the same japanese player, using Z-ism Honda and winning vs Sakura and in the 2nd match V-Honda losing vs Guy barely by timeout.

In the footage, the Honda player can buffer the HHS during the time the FP, SP or even SK is out. Perhaps the arcade version has different button press requirements??? Maybe the arcade version requires more than 5 button presses?

I just don’t get it. :confused:


#18

maybe he just presses really fuckin’ fast? :slight_smile:

I know it’s like that in the old games… dunno about A3


#19

I just tried it again and yes, you have to press very, very fast. :sweat:

Press the button like you’ve never pressed it before and it might work.


#20

thanks for the help, I just don’t think I can do that I only been using arcade sticks for 8 months now.