SFIITurbo: Guile-vs-Ryu--Who wins?


#1

SFIITurbo is one of my favorite games, and I always thought this was one of the best matches in the game.

But between these two characters, which one will ultimately pound the other character out of the game: Guile or Ryu?

Peace!!!


#2

Ryu


#3

guile would own


#4

Here. Try this while using Ryu. Once distanced and outfireballing guile, let him jump in. Then walk forward and anti-air ALL of his jump ins with crouching strong and 2in1 that into a fireball(leaving you pummeling him with fireballs again forcing him to jump). Wash, rinse, repeat.

Let’s not even get into the hurricane kick.

Iono…who do YOU think wins. lol

I don’t even use Ryu on HF but I love to hear stories of how Guile is top tier in there, heheh. Must be talking about in Japan on a head to head.

I never touched Ryu back in the day and I remember this simple strat. Just one of many little things that leave Ryu clearly on top.

Just my opinion. I chuckle in advance at anyone saying Ryu & Guile are top tier in HF. Ryu is. That’s for certain.

Apoc.


#5

please…by all means get into the hurricane kick

i never got into fighting games during the HF period, so all info on HF is new to me…

also, is SFII Turbo for SNES the same as HF?


#6

Ryu’s hurrican kicks go through sonic booms. So if you’re far away you can do the short one everytime a sonic boom comes in, land and be safe. If you’re close(a bit out of sweep distance) you can either do the short one where you can land and throw guile, or land and just him. Or you can do the Roundhouse one which if timed correctly will not only pass through the sonic boom but hit guile before he recovers.

And I like to add one more thing to what Apoc said about Guile and the fireball trap with ryu, that if Guile is in the corner, and Ryu starts his fireball trap at the right distance, then Guile doesn’t have too many options except play a guessing game which favors ryu. If the Ryu in question is Super Turbo Ryu with the Super then Guile has one more thing to worry about in the corner, when Ryu’s super charges up :slight_smile:

So although I also thing Ryu has a better chance of winning than Guile, it doesn’t mean it’s not possible. In the hands of the right player even the crappiest character has winning potential. Although if that person is good enough to win with the crappiest character then there is no point logicaly for him to play the crappiest character if his aim is to win, since he just makes it harder on himself. :lol:


#7

It’s more than that. Ryu’s Hurricane Kick in CE and HF had invincibility on startup that lasted until he could hit you and when he was landing, so if Guile tried to do something like jab SB, follow it and throw if you blocked Ryu could either wait till the SB got right on him and HK thru (most likely hitting Guile) or he could block the SB and do the HK as a reversal. If Guile tries to throw he will get a standing punch that will pass thru Ryu harmlessly as he starts his HK and Guile will get hit…


#8

I was only talking about Super Turbo :slight_smile:


#9

Sounds like none of you know much about what you’re talking about.

Guile vs Ryu is an interesting matchup. Who wins depends totally on the styles of the players. A Ryu who is not aggressive will have a terrible time vs Guile. In turn, a Guile who is lets Ryu push him back into a corner is at a disadvantage. No one has a distinct advantage.

Trapping Guile in the corner is a good technique… umm… but have you ever player a good Guile player? It’s seldom that he’s the one that is pushed into the corner. In turn, Guile has a great corner trap too, did you forget?

(What? Hurricane out of the corner - over an anticipated sonic boom?? Um… the keyword is ‘anticipated’. If you get it wrong, it’s a free throw or uppercut… remember?)

And hurricane kicks?.. a decent advantage, but one move will not make or break the matchup. Plus, in the given scenerios, you can tell that these guys have not tried these techniques against decent Guile players. If you have to ask, then… (ya know)…

So you are absolutely right - this is one of the best matchups of the game and that’s because there isn’t a clear winner. It just depends on the styles. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either biased or doesn’t know much about the game.

FYI


#10

I don’t think I have ever said this about anyones post, and don’t take this personally, but you don’t know what you’re talking about. :slight_smile:


#11

ghgh: I’m not saying it a free win for Ryu… But you must see that Ryu has at least a little advantage over Guile?

Personally, I think that it is a very winnable match for Guile… You just have to outplay Ryu. But I think that Guile is at a pretty clear disadvantage.

Guile can’t keep up with the FBs. No biggie, you can still match most, and straight jump the rest… But you don’t gain anything. Best you can hope for is to guess one for combo, match and hit upclose, or bore them to death fullscreen and get them to throw FBs mindlessly and catch a j.rh.

Anti-air, YOu have to charge, Ryu don’t… pretty simple? Guile gets adavntage for having super easy reversal though.

Ryu’s super is great… Guile’s sucks ASS I’m convinced it’s best use is 2-hit anti-crossup :slight_smile:

Hurricane kick… The fact that Ryu can just evade a boom that easily is a distinct advantage. It’s still on the screen, so you can’t throw another, he doesn’t get pushed back, etc. What can you do vs his FBs? Match them? Jump? Try to Flash kick over/thru them to hit Ryu’s arms trying to be flashy just to end up getting hit yourself most times? :stuck_out_tongue: It also screws up how you can throw your booms in pressure patterns. You cannot get predictable at ALL or you eat HK. It also has the “what-if” thing. You have to limit the way you throw your booms because Ryu just might HK over them and hit you. I’d rather face Ken.

I’m rambling… :slight_smile:


#12

Reza-O: If you’re going to take time to post a reply, you might as well make it worth everyones time, don’t you think? How do you come up with the idea that I don’t know what I’m talking about? I’m curious. Do the things I mention not make any sense to you? Explain.

Marvel: I’d tend to agree with you that Ryu has a slight advantage only because I use Ryu (I’m biased). If I wasn’t biased, I’d have to give the advantage to Guile if all things are equal - BECAUSE the good strategy with Guile is to wait (react) versus Ryu’s which is to guess (anticipate). If you want an explanation, let me know. But for now, let me respond to your strategies.

  1. “Guile can’t keep up with the FB’s”. - That’s why he has a backfist. Ever get hit by it? TRUST ME, unless you corner Guile and have the correct distance AND the correct fireball speed combination, throwing repeated FBs is not a good gameplan.

  2. “Anti-air, You have to charge”. - That’s why he has a great uppercut… and a very decent standing roundhouse. Get to know the basic moves as well as the specials. You’ll be surprised.

  3. “Super”. - In SF2HF, there weren’t any supers. However, if you’re talking about SSF2T then you’re right. But by no means is this a major factor in a win/lose scenario.

  4. “Hurricane Kick”. - Here’s how it works… Guile shoots a SB from a distance -> you see it coming and HK -> Guile crouches and uppercuts you when you’re passing over OR guards the HK and throws you when it completes (of course keeping in mind that you might try to DP as soon as you land). BUT, I do agree, as I did previously, to say that the HK is an advantage.

Why does some folks think that you have to match fireball with sonic booms? What will I gain to match FBs with SBs? Or FBs with other FBs for that matter - no matter which character I use? Let’s use our heads.

If you’ve played Guile players that rely so heavily on SBs to facilitate their strategies, then those Guile players are probably not high caliber players. Another words, that’s not how Guile is to be played.

Experienced SF players will tell you that Guile is a pressure character. SBs are used to set things up, not to throw randomly, or not even as a primary weapon. Uppercut, low forward, backfists, and somersault kicks are used more as weapons than SBs.

Reza-O: Do you still think that I don’t know what I’m talking about? I wouldn’t be responding to this if that was the case. But I’m just trying to give some insight, that’s all. Please give us some more insight from your point of view if you disagree.


#13

If you live in Los Angeles, I can meet you at an arcade and show you in person. My posts were all about Super turbo btw. I am not going to type out a response though, although I am sure after your remark :

“Sounds like none of you know much about what you’re talking about.”

I will not be the only person you will hear from. I am sure you will get an earful from other people on the fallacies of your beliefs, so I will leave the typing to them. Also seem to me you came in this post with a closed ear, so there is no point for me to type anything. I am sure the person who needed the help who made the original post, got what they needed from the responses. So I will leave it at that.


#14

a Japanese ranking chart that someone posted recently had ryu vs guile at 5/5 for both hf and st.

http://games.t-akiba.net/sf2/diagrama.html

dont know what the source for that is.


#15

I can’t read this whole thing. Dude, this is mid-level, “never really learned to play it yet”, strategy.

Ryu’s fb speed is of utmost importance in the match. You need to be in range in order to touch him with it first(k…get passed the fireballs) and you can’t counter with the backfist without cancelling the fb with a sonic boom. Go ahead and try trading and be dizzy by 2 fireballs. I’ll let yall argue. But this is strategy you may use before facing an expert Ryu. Shit, have Watson roll down and show you how to play(not that he plays it anymore. Just sayin’).

It’s like math before calculus. This must be what you were exposed to. It doesn’t work against Ryu in true form. Don’t speak so harshly. You know what you’re talking about…on that level. In reality…you really don’t. I love the gamepro tip though. Cr.fierce on a hurricane. I suppose Ryu’s just randomly hurricane to float over your head? Wow. Crouch fierce from a lot of characters hits poorly placed hurricanes woohoo! LOL Dude, the average player knows these things. They aren’t implemented like you seem to think though.

Fireballs aren’t an issue? Guile needs to be cornered? I dunno.

Don’t mind me. I don’t know how to play. I don’t even play Guile or Ryu.

Some funny shit though. I’ll laugh in the background from now on=) Hope yall don’t just insult eachother.

Apoc.


#16

Apoc: One word - ignorant… in the true sense of the word. You speak without even reading the entire post??.. very smart. Until you read the entire post, I, along with everyone else on this board, will, by definition, be obliged to call you “ignorant.”

Read your first paragraph about fireballs and then read my point number 1. AHHAAA! Interesting, isn’t it?

Just for your information, the only real insult on this thread was when I said that “you guys don’t know what you’re talking about.” Although it may have been a bit premature to say, it looks like I’ll have to stand by that comment.

Let me see… “Brian” did a wonderful job in researching what our japanese counterparts thought about the matter. 5/5… meaning EQUAL. Of course Apoc, you are wiser than our japanese counterparts regarding the character rankings, aren’t you? Please say that you are. Otherwise, you’re speaking nonsense. Better to sit in the background and chuckle… at… yourself??

Don’t disagree with me because I’m a jerk. Disagree with me if I’m wrong. In this case, I happen to have the support of our Japanese friends, don’t I? Anyone care to take it any further?

“It doesn’t work with Ryu in true form…” What’s true form?? What in the world is that supposed to mean? Is that when Ryu turns green and grows bigger? How about Guile in “true form”?? Do you think that the (poor excuse for a) strategy that you initially offered will stand up against a Guile in “true form”??? I’d like to hear a direct answer - Yes/No? (Don’t worry, we already know the answer). Then were you referring to low/mid-level play like I was, or were you talking about this “true form” jibberish?

Tell the truth, you were offended that your ignorant comment was torn to shreds - NOT by me, but by a Japanese ranking chart AND me, and now you’re a little embarrased that you lost face. It’s OK… really… LOL… It’s just a video game. Apparently, as you mentioned, you don’t play Guile and/or Ryu. You’re forgiven. BUT just don’t go around giving advice if you don’t have any experience about the subject matter, okay? Good. Thanks.

Again - Brian, good post. That’s the type of info that people are looking for. Thumbs up.


#17

Actually, I did read the whole post as I posted. I just hadn’t at the time I started replying.

Either way, I can accept being ignorant. No one knows everything. I’m sure that I’ll be ignorant again:(

As for knowing what I’m talking about. That’s open to opinion here. You have your own.

Japan rankings? Understand that in the US, where we play side by side WITH our opponent, I couldn’t care less about rankings that come from playing your opponent onscreen(head to head machines). There is totally different strategy involved. In ST, Chun Li is good there. Here Chun Li sucks off half the cast. So, while I appreciate the effort, for me and all who play American style(side by side), it’s only semi-accurate. Sometimes it’s way off IMO. But yes, as far as American ranking goes on our style, I know more than our Japanese counterparts. In fact, back then, USA had just as much comp. Kuni himself said that Japan had only a few players that were on Tomo’s level. And on the all around, especially after viewing their older tapes, I really don’t believe they were too hot at old school until about 96 maybe. Yeah, I did know more back then. Not now maybe, but I can be hypnotized to retrieve superior information.

Why would I chuckle at myself? I really don’t see you owning anyone at all. The Japanese thought Rog sucked on A3(as did Americans), yet he hangs with the top tier(a requirement for being labeled a “good” character) and beats the shit out of most. They just didn’t know that. I said from the beginning that we all think differently. That doesn’t mean we both can’t be right. However, just for you I thought I’d outline where Japan thought they knew their game and I said I knew better and was right in that instance. See? It’s possible, as perfect as the Japanese may seem(I know. “GASP”, right?).

As for support of Japanese friends? LOL wtf? Yo, I gotta give you laugh props on that one. Unlike most, I KNOW the Japanese don’t know it all. They certainly know more about the game. But when strategy is concerned, that’s a matter of philosophy and not absolutes. Their rankings and beliefs will most certainly differ with ours based on natural philosophical standpoints.

Moving along…Not only do you post like a jerk, but you’re a fucking drone thinking that if Japanese players agree with you that you’re right. That just makes you look more retarded to me. Believe in your own opinion on games and back it up in play. Fuck what you think really cuz that’s all in your head. I’ll care when I see it on the game.

So, in that sense, I don’t know you and don’t have any proof that you can even formulate strategy. No physical evidence that you know what you’re talking about.

Go enter a tourney, whoop up on Ryu with Guile. Then you won’t be talking out of your ass and out of ignorance.

FYI, Ryu in true form simply meant REAL Ryu players that you obviously hadn’t any experience with. Meaning you must’ve faced some fake-ass Ryu’s. I hope my clarification will suffice.

And yes, If I ever play against your Guile I will take my mediocre non-HF playing ass Ryu and push you away once with a RH 2in1 and then you will die trying to find a way to attack me. That’s how it will go and there’s an HF tourney at MWC and I don’t have an HF to practice so I’ll be there cold as hell. Please, attend so I can pay for your trip after you beat me for the cost of your ticket:D

Take your own advice. I was one of the best at HF in its’ heyday when a million ppl played. I played at World’s Finest with the best in probably the world at the time and I witnessed the strategies of the best. So talk all you want. Fools don’t know when to shut up.

But on the real, check around. I’m not into a lot of bs. I’d rather meet and play you. I don’t even force ppl to write posts humiliating themselves. I’ll let you keep it to yourself. But show up to MWC or don’t talk. If you only talk, you’re all theory anyway. Let me show you how things work in reality directly in one on one competition on the game. The results can’t lie at least.

Seriously, don’t talk shit unless your ready to bang. Otherwise it’s just screamin’.

If you can’t make it, challenge Mike Watson if your Guile is 50/50 with Ryu on HF. He’ll be more than happy to take your money.

Let’s have some real fun. I was trying to help ppl out. You just wanted to call ppl wrong. Come to MWC and eat some humble pie.

The truth of the matter is, I know Reza. He’s a nice guy. You flamed him. It wasn’t necessary. And you said some stupid shit while you were at it. So, I felt that I’d let you know in just the way you let him know. You get what you give, they say. If you had said anything about my prior comments, I didn’t know, and wouldn’t care. You just wanna flame ppl and act like you know without actually performing and beating ppl. There’s a lot of ppl like you and I wouldn’t care what any of them thought really.

You were hella entertaining with the comments about the Japanese ranking. LOL! I guess you didn’t realize who you were talking to. I have my own nutz to swing on thanx. I laugh at a lot of what Japan thinks just as I’m sure they laugh at us. I prove my points in actual tourney though. I don’t need to name-drop to add credibility to what I say.

Brian’s post was appreciated. So was Reza’s You’re a fool to think that all anyone cares about are the Japanese opinions.

Good try kiddo. Come again. Next?

Apoc.


#18

Apoc: Your post disappoints me. You reply in typical scrub manner. To think that I expected more from you.

First, in saying that you know more about character rankings than Japanese top players and game researchers… (ahem) Um, I don’t think so. I’m sorry - the rankings are different because we sit side-by-side instead of head-to-head?!? (LOL!!). OH, you mean the strategy differs because of elbow room!! OK. Or maybe you mean that you can peak over and see what button your opponent is going to press!! uhhhh… okay… right…

LOL!

Yes, I put quite of bit of emphasis on the opinion of our Japanese sources. You know as well as I do that their gaming research is top notch. (I’m not 100%, but where was kara-throwing (3S), infinites (A3), roll cancelling (CvS2), etc discovered?? In the US??) Quite simply, if they publish a character ranking list, I (and EVERYONE else) will respect it just a little bit more than I’d respect yours - ESPECIALLY since you don’t even play Ryu - remember???

LOL! - For real?? Do you REALLY think you know more than the Japanese players, researchers, and publishers??? LOL! Do you do drugs??? LOL!

Then here you go saying, “well, meet me at blah, blah, blah, and we’ll bet my entire life savings over a video game, blah, blah, blah…” Come now… calm down. Is this what your self-esteem is based upon? Are you trying to save face by challenging me to play a 10 yr old video game?? I can see that you’re just a little boy… at least mentally.

We do agree on one thing though. You called yourself “mediocre”. It seems as though not only are you a mediocre HF Ryu player, as YOU yourself said, but you seem to be a mediocre person… not bad, just typical. No offense though… I’m just expanding on something you said about yourself.

“Don’t talk unless you’re ready to bang”?? I’m sorry, is that hardcore Gangsta talk?? YEAH - video game gangstas!!! Word to yo mutha! Grow up. LOL! In any event, did I ever say that I want to play ANYONE in HF to prove anything? Or was this discussion originally about giving accurate information to a youngster who had a question??? hmmm…

Finally, I’ve had the opportunity to play MWatson (on A3). Impressive A-Ryu. Solid old school player - not many tricks, just straight up combat. I can see that his Ryu would be most formidable in the old SF series. In A3, I lost against him one game with my secondary character and beat him one game with my primary character. Just referring to this to let you know that I understand what high level gameplay is.

Like YOU said, you were just upset because of how I initially came across. But the info I provided is quite accurate. Bear and grin it my friend… 'cause you’re making yourself look less respectable with each post. Just take a look - you went from discussing general Ryu/Guile strategy to “don’t talk unless you’re ready to BANG!” LOL!!

No need to respond - you’re no use on this matter. But don’t fret - you may be useful for other things…

“Inferior mentalities make for loyal servants.”


#19

again, I should say I have no idea what the source is for that ranking chart. It could be some guy in Japan who never played anything other than the computer and decided to make a pretty ranking chart. Or it could be the best players in the world. Dunno.

It does seem reasonable that Guile does better over there than here, as they seem to play him more. I suspect the Japanese know something about Guile that we don’t. For one thing, they probably are much better at optimizing their sonic boom speed.

Anyway, Apoc perhaps it would be helpful if you could give some specific examples of how playing side by side as opposed to head to head gives a distinct advantage to Ryu. In the Chun Li case its obvious.


#20

sorry if some1 posted this earlyer…BUT FUCK RYU go with Ken. HIS KICK ARE FASTEr…or they where in SFII…tehehe…ken would win!!!..but is some one is going to yell at me for not going the post…then…um…lets see…

…Meh i’ll go with Ryu