You mean a Mexican high flyer isn´t stereotypical? Lucha Libre also contains a lot of mat based wrestling or brawling, not only high flying action.
You know, why we have this image of “Mexican high flyer luchadors”? It is because, the American promotions specifically signed smaller luchadores to show matches with a lot of highspots.( Definition:“Highspot (n) A move, usually aerial, that includes fast motion among two or more wrestlers; often risk is involved or at least perceived.”) http://www.pwtorch.com/insiderglossary.shtml
He is a dude, who thinks that Turkey is a 3rd world cesspool and that families there have a lot children(See at Hakan and his 7 kids). Also that the people of Cuba want to be liberated by the US. I mean, we all are able to say extremely dumb stuff, but the opinion about Turkey and Cuba is just pure ignorance.
IDK why Magegg is being so judgemental and up tight about stereotypes. Most of his arguments come from his own assumptions and nothing to do with what the other guy said. Stereotypes aren’t bad by default, as the old saying goes “stereotypes exist for a reason”. What’s so bad about using a few positive stereotypes here and there for a character? Wouldn’t a Canadian gamer be happy to see themselves represented in Street Fighter? Sure a full blown stereotype like T.Hawk or Dee Jay would suck, but I think having a stereotype for a base then adding some flare to the character I.E Yang, Yun, Ken ( yeah I said Ken ) would be great. That what the Lumber Jack lady sounds like.
I’m just gonna say the notion that DOA having a Boxer from Canada is stupid because “what does Boxing have to do with Canada?” is a pretty dumb line of reasoning. It’s cool because he’s from Canada so it’s nice to see us represented, and since we’re not much different from the US or the UK…if they can have boxing types, why not?
And really, C.Viper would be something seen as weirder than a Boxer from Canada since you’d kind of expect a spy thing to be from like the UK because the most famous fictional spy is James Bond, etc. Plus…I’m pretty sure the US doesn’t have a lot of people who resemble female versions of Reno from Final Fantasy VII.
A lumberjack is the most stereotypical thing you can picture about Canadians, period.
Cause your description fits that character so much.
The fact Brazilians are African-descent doesn’t mean a Kenian should know Capoeira, that would be like saying Congolese people should be doing gangsta rap only because it was invented by African American.
The names are not enough to stereotype a character, man.
I don’t think neither Hakan, Fuerte or Rufus are stereotypes in the strict sense, while they take a couple cues from stereotypical ideas but they’re overall original inventions:
Hakan has a really stereotypical personality according to what people imagine of Middle Eastern men, but his design is completely original and has nothing to do with stereotyping.
Rufus is a mix between two or three completely different things, the idea of an overweight American is sort of an stereotype (not really seen in Japanese media often) but not when applied to fighting, he rides a motorcycle which is kind of a stereotype, then they give him a kung-fu fighting style and a costume vaguely inspired in Bruce Lee and more in common with Lien from KOF MI, then he’s far away from being a stereotype.
Fuerte I wouldn’t say he’s an stereotype simply because of being a luchador, that would be like saying a Korean TKD fighter is a stereotype. It might be an archetype and one that makes sense, one stupid stereotype would be Fuerte being a Mariachi fighter. His design is nothing special and the only truly stereotypical thing about him is his obsession with Mexican cuisine.
Anyway, those three characters are failures and they’re not much appreciated precisely because of the grotesque stereotypical details they gave him. That’s the reason why you shouldn’t be doing stereotypes anymore.
To create a cool character you must stay away from the cartoon coloring book stereotypes, you can take a couple gimmicks from different countries stereotype but they have to make sense. Why a lumberjack? That’s just as stereotypical as a mariachi for Mexico, and doesn’t make sense in the fighting context. What do you think is a cool design, Vega/Claw, or Laurence Blood from Fatal Fury 2?
They could start integrating it to the shared universe. Or at least a couple characters. If there was a version of Sakura in Rival Schools, why not alternate universe versions of characters like Akira, Kyosuke or Ryu could exist in the Street Fighter universe?
And that was why people didn’t like it. It was a terrible stereotype (specially because it has nothing to do with fighting) AND the execution was really grotesque. Look at Bob in Tekken, is basically the same idea, but without the “Capcomized” design style.
I think Street Fighter IV character designers have a chance to be good, as long as they stop basing their designs in grotesque stereotypes.
But then I look at the alternate costume designs and say “damn, there’s no way these guys can design something good…”
No stereotypes. I’m all up for colorful, exaggerated, larger than life depictions of people, but character designs don’t have to be rooted in BS generalizations of entire races, “positive” or negative.
I DEFINITELY wouldn’t mind a Jim Kelly homage, though.
What’s wrong with stereotypes? Balrog’s one of the most offensive stereotypes and I’m fine with it. He’s stupid, violent, and obsessed with money. Can’t get more stereotypical than that, and I love him for it. No offense to all the brothas out there lolololol.
It’s a little harder to understand the impact of anti-black stereotypes like that if you’re not a “brotha” yourself. Possible, just much harder.
Diversity of personality is what I’m really asking for. If greedy, stupid brutes like Balrog have to exist, fine. But give me more Dudleys (if he’s black) and Elenas (minus the noble savage traits, pls) to more than balance out the Balrogs, Mikes, and Birdies.
And don’t get me started on Deejay and Sean…
And for the record, the bolded applies to more than just the black characters.
Character tropes does not automatically translate into racism unless the trope itself is racist. There’s nothing racist about T Hawk talking about the earth or Elena communicating through dance or whatever her schtick is I don’t even know.
It’s only a problem when you’ve got thieving black characters or caucasian Hakan clones that oil up with mayonnaise.
They need to put Sean back in but revamp him as a mobile grappler. He already has most of Abel’s move set lol
an overhead kick
Just make his grapple an actual throw, give him some of kens kicks, and maybe he can dash cancel some of his normals in his power up state.
I just want him to be a rushdown monster that’s just trying to headbutt you or trying to pound your face in lol. A mobile grappler with a decent neutral game would be fun. Kinda like a sf version of bang shisigami.
That’s just not the way Street Fighter handles characters. They always do something that ties into their national heritage. They don’t just have characters that completely ignore where they’re from. It might be good for DOA to have a Canadian character that doesn’t represent Canada in any way other than his nationality, but it’s not good for SF. SF always does something a bit more outlandish.
Boxing definitely makes more sense with a US/UK character since the sport has roots in London and many of the most legendary boxers in the world are from the US and UK. Canada doesn’t really have a presence in it so I think they’re a bit more unrestricted with what they can do with a Canadian grappler girl.
I think I’ll draw some pictures of my character, her design and moves and whatnot. Should be fun.
What about Abel, Necro or Remy? National heritage?
It’s obvious the Street Fighter design style has changed over the years, I don’t think people would accept many of the Street Fighter II designs right now, and the grotesque design style from Street Fighter IV didn’t really work for most people. They felt more like mockery of the represented countries instead of a worthy representation.
I don’t think people wants more Abel, Fuertes, T. Hawks or Dhalsims, designs like Charlie, Elena, Rose, Vega, that’s where we should look at, something less stereotyped, less cartoonish and more human.
I think they could learn a little about games like Garou: Mark of the Wolves, if you check some designs like Tizoc or B. Jenet, they’re good representation of different countries but they don’t feel like a mockery caricature, unlike Rufus, Fuerte or Hakan, in fact they take the most noble and valuable aspect of the country and use it to exalt the character.
The Street Fighter III design style didn’t work for some people, but they felt much more like original characters than nationality stereotypes.
1.Abel was modeled after Fedor Emelianenko, he should look human enough.
2.I would claim that some of the characters in the left group are gameplay wise much more interesting than the chars of the right group(Especially Sim).
3.They should use characters in SF:V, who work well with the game mechanics, not just because they look human or whatever. It is something you aren´t seemingly understanding. The criteria for, who should be in SF:V isn´t just about, how one character looks.
1.Ono said about Hakan that they to add the game some true Street Fighter characters of the caliber of Dhalsim and Blanka in 2010.
2.Big titted pirates are a good representation of UK? Also a 2,15 meter big luchadore, who does Frankensteiners, is realistic, sure.
3.Many Turks actually like Hakan, some don´t, but I also know Germans, who dislike Hugo for example, so nothing bad. Oh and Ono´s opinion:"It isn´t meant to be a sign of disrespect towards the Turkish people. IT IS A GAME." http://istanbulian.blogspot.de/2010/05/turkish-street-fighter-hakan.html
You aren´t a game designer and please don´t talk like you actually know something about what good game design is or should be.