SFV Lounge: Lupe please comeback! DevJin moving to Mortal Kombat XI


#581

Others have already answered but the gist is, as a Laura player, you should be being positionally aggressive. That means walking and dashing forward. That also means the opponent should be pressing buttons to keep you out. And that’s when you st.hk them, to CC their button attempts and get an M elbow KD into your pressure okizeme.

Conversely, if they start to get more shy with the buttons, that’s the time to dash in and start your offense.

Also, if sagat gets st.hk non duckable CC I want chun to get st.hp CC, air ex legs to become the new version of season 1 iall, and her cr.mp to cause a soft KD.

I mean as long as we are asking for the world.


#582

I dunno if she’s gonna make it man


#583

It would be ironic though if after all the years of bitching about Rashids cr fierce they went and gave Sagat a better Rashid cr.fierce


#584

I dunno man, I would ask for it. Don’t have to be the honest character man all of your life.

I would say at minimum the 7F part that hits crouchers needs to be a little bit longer than this any way.

This is the good part of the hit box, but doesn’t activate until frame 9 and doesn’t hit crouchers. Best thing it does in grounded neutral is whiff punish standing buttons and generally deter certain other standing buttons but eventually they can just block and walk in on it if they’re a decent character.

To me there’s nothing ironic about it. Like a strong ass s.HK is what Sagat needs. Falke’s s.HP and f+HP on Sagat would be busted but hey, that’s what you need in SFV. You need heavies that people can’t crouch that go into full combos or build you v gauge. You can’t just sit in honesty all your life. Need some swingy buttons.

Even if the 7F part of Sagat’s s.HK improved he still has that jump that is easy AF to anti air and probably won’t get anything other than slightly better forward walk. There’s way many other attributes to Rashid that make him what he is. That c.HP alone in this game only goes so far. It’s a lot of things that add up for him.


#585

Definitely going to make it a conscious effort to put all this into my gameplan. Not that I don’t know Laura’s plan just sometimes it goes out the window and I find myself giving up space or going on auto pilot. Especially if I can tell the opponent knows and is keeping me in that lunge punch Chun has or Vega’s long buttons wish there was more character diversity at my level. Not sure if it’s the same at high level because I could use the mu knowledge


#586

Thanks man. Yeah, I really need to rethink how I approach neutral, which may effect who I play as. Sagat is actually probably the best fit for how I traditionally wanted to play, but I’m not sure if that’s how I want to play moving forward…

I’ll stick with him for now, at least until S4 drops, but in the meantime, I’ll reevaluate how I want to (or should) play.

In fighting games, I’ve always been afraid of just simply walking or dashing in, but was a little too comfortable jumping in, or using travelling special attacks to get in. I’ve also always preferred a character with strong zoning tools. The problem has been that I use these tactics very predictably which seems to be extra dangerous in SFV for whatever reason. Also, in non-SF games, I always used a character that had some type of a neutral freeze move (like Sub-Zero’s freeze, Scorpion’s spear, Spider-Man’s Webs, etc) to get-in to do a combo without fear. I really need to overcome that fear and get comfortable walking right infront of an opponent and finding the right time to block, attack, shimmy, etc.

Sagat gave me the ability to keep my distance and zone and poke. His jump and tiger knee are slow/dangerous enough that I don’t jump/flip in as much (which I did predictably) with Akuma or Cammy. Basically, he allowed me to keep my distance in neutral and be somewhat comfortable with it in this game.

For now, I’m just going to stick with Sagat but I’ll stop walking backwards (unless I’m trying to purposely backdash when dealing with excess pressure, or trying to bait an AA). I keep walking myself into a corner to get some space to zone comfortably, but that’s horrible. Instead, I need to keep pushing forward to at least stay within s.MK range. It will at least teach me to be more comfortable a little closer. Then I can decide if I want to use a character that is more tailored at applying pressure or not.

I’ll be on in a bit, but it likely won’t be for long, same with test of the week until Sunday, which should be a little more open for me.


#587

I don’t think St. Hk hitting crouchers would be that insane

It’s absolute fuckin blasphemy that Rashid can control space better than Sagat


#588

Thing with that is though it would render his other buttons obsolete. Why would you push any other poke outside of st.lk if your heavy is faster, longer , more damaging and more controlling than any other normal.

Sagat would basically be spammy st.hk /tiger shot/uppercut.

You can actually whiff punish with st.hk too, so that’s that base covered.

I dunno, I like a lil bit of tactics rather than full on BS.

Edit: I must be the only fucker on the forum that knocks back mega buffs


#589

It already forces stand on hit, so presumably it’s now going to hit double on block as well.

Like sure, all of you go over Capcom unity and ask for this, then meet me here in 2 months lol


#590

Same reson you do with Rog, and Bison and other characters.

I mean it would still be a 7 frames start up which I would mind them changing to 8 or 9 if it hit crouchers. And it would be negative on block.

I’d actually use St HK within close range if it hit crouching characters.

Actually I take that back don’t change the start up…lol I like my 7 frame AA


#591

Rog and Bison don’t have a fireball.


#592

The AA hit box is the secondary hit box. The first 7F part doesn’t AA. s.HK’s hit box shuts off for a frame and then frame 9 is the AA hit box. So technically it’s a 9F AA. Still good though especially with lag reduction and active at that point for 3F.


#593

Bison does! ah ha!

But even still it would have a use up close, and make him more threatening up close. I’d still use st lk cr lp and cr mp on defense.


#594

We’re just looking at it as if that would totally make him a cut above the top 10 if he had it and I don’t even think it would. He would just be legit better and that’s what he needs.

I’ll post this again. I mean do these guys look ashamed for only hitting c.HP and s.HP mostly over and over and over again with no whiff punish?

Earlier Sagat didn’t need a bunch of buttons. In that game all he really hit in neutral was c.HP and s.LK and that was pretty serviceable. Still had depth when he got in close range but Sagat was never really known as a character that hit many ranges of buttons until then. The shots or one or 2 of hit best buttons did most of the work and that was fine.

I mean we know what’s already out there so this shit isn’t going to scare us. Why am I gonna be afraid of of Sagat with s.HK that really forces neutral when other lower tier characters like Falke already have these type of buttons that force the opponent to respect her range? What’s wrong with Sagat having that when Falke can have it and have an slow, but very invincible EX DP that’s motionless and covers half the screen and most of the cast has to do gymnastics to AA with any regularity? Falke is a few changes away from being a complained about character and Sagat is always good when people complain about him.

Make People Complain About Sagat Again.

Why do you wanna hit all kinds of different buttons in this game any way? Save that for SF6. Get your good buttons and go out there and hit them. You’re still gonna have matchups that are going to force you to jump and you’re still gonna get AA’d for free unless they change his jump speed or jump buttons. Still likely gonna have very seeable dash and all of that shit also. s.HK still loses to lows and most of the better characters still are gonna low button you into VTC into shit.


#595

You seem to be missing the point that that button is a CC. If you take away it’s CC property… great. Make it hit crouchers.

But while it’s CCing… hell no. Shit would be like season 2 Urien x3… only with a DP and motion based moves.

But if Sagat gets this stupidity, Chun gets her crumple st.hp. It can be battle of the half screen CC’s!


#596

Falke is already like that neutrally. s.HP and f+HP hit crouchers and go into combos and f+HP is CC and builds meter. Yet nobody is crying for her to get nerfed.

Urien is Urien for more reasons than his s.HP. Same with Rashid. It’s not just that one heavy button that makes them what they are. They’re both very wild special movement characters with special moves that take up space and make them way they are.

Even if Sagat gets all of that shit, he’s still a tanky shoto with no real low threat, slow easy to AA jump and weak tiger knee. Still arguably better playing Falke against all but maybe 2 or 3 characters. To me that’s about where he should be. More ground dominant compared to Falke, but much easier to AA and less mobile.


#597

Falke doesn’t have a fireball that’s anywhere near Sagat levels dj. Cmon. That’s not an accurate comparison. You may as well compare Sakura to guile because both have projectiles.


#598

Personally I think you guys are taking an already good move in his tool kit, then making it better, whilst leaving the bad stuff the same.

Personally outside of you guys St.hk nuke that you just gave him, crouching fierce is the one I would buff up, take it down from 11 frames to around 8-9 and maybe even make it 0 or plus 1on block.


#599

That’s the point. If she did she’d be busted. If Sagat had her f+HP and s.HP he’d be busted.

If they got pushed a little bit more in their weak spots, they’d both be more to where people want them.


#600

Not even. I wouldn’t mind the bad stuff getting a little bit better too. Just enough where the s.HK does what it should do and not something that just adds to the amount of heavy buttons that he can’t really force on crouchers.

Yeah c.HP getting better would work too. Generally he needs a REAL heavy button. This is SFV. All of top 5 have a REAL heavy button. FALKE has real heavy buttons. Falke. Let’s give it to the king. s.LK and s.MK will still be very useful especially since s.LK has been the best it’s been in a while.