SFV Lounge: Menat BUFFED, F2P SFV coming, CCCC COMBO BREAKERS coming


#4649

#4650


#4651

Lots of em were fuckers. I still think sim was the worst. Put in all that effort to get in and then just get looped up for your troubles.


#4652

Giving some replay commentary a shot. Definitely a good exercise in figuring out your weaknesses. Testing the waters, lemme know what yall think


#4653

The best thing about that fix SFV video is that right around 15 minutes in it basically says in 1 minute that James Chen was wrong about prox normals (something he went over for like 2 hours LOL). If the video was only one minute and about that it would be the best you tube vid I’ve seen in a while. I commented on James video about the Alpha 2 prox thing and how the prox normals on conception were said by devs to just be a visual thing and not really gameplay instated into the game.

Everything else is…overly dramatic. The game still has long bouts of neutral even between some of the more up close characters with the current changes. Some of the SFV meta things are an issue, but there all things that like the stuff that people didn’t like in IV, will most likely get changed or removed in SF6 any way. Then deal with the new problems. The game is at a point where most of the strongest 2 bar triggers are gone and the only overly strong 2 bar triggers that are left are with characters that likely won’t ever touch top tier any way.

Video doesn’t explain 3rd Strike dashes or neutral perfectly either. He only shows Dudley’s dash to explain 3S dashes which is stupid when you can watch tournament matches of Makoto and Urien clearly being able to just run their shit in and throw somebody without much problem. Certain characters aren’t as dash centric like the twins, but they have dives for neutral crash any way and if you can’t parry the dives are worst than dashes any way. Shoto dashes are basically as strong as they are in V minus a frame or 2 difference in delay and parries protecting you from button they may hit.

3rd Strike neutral at lower level especially with lag is pretty BS for someone coming in. If you can’t parry, online Akuma and Alex tatsu/stomp mashing is fucked and I’m sure there are some randoms online who stopped playing once they dealt with a mashy Akuma or Alex. Parry is like the data crunching in V. If you don’t have it down the game is retarded and you will likely get out of it early if you’re new dealing with better people.

SFV’s main legitimate issue for me is that you get too much reward on stray hits for too little resource.

Most of the cheap stuff in other games you have to burn real resource for. The jump in and crush counter mechanics allow way too much meterless/1 bar damage. The other things are issues, but wouldn’t be as much issue if damage dump off everything wasn’t so nuts. Either way though, high damage is fun and coming from Marvel I’m used to huge/meterless/meter positive damage dump off shit that doesn’t always reflect the resource/effort. Even low tier characters like Vega catch you with one button in the right place with one EX bar and your life just disappears. So even the low tiers are strong in a sense because of that.


#4654

Good video. I wish one could always think when he is in the game as well as he can think looking back at it.


#4655

Almost never can, it’s something to aspire to be able to do though. Being able to think and solve those types of puzzles that quickly in a real time match is intensely difficult and draining even. It’s a skill set that clearly divides players of different skill levels.


#4656

As for Mocha’s video. Only watched a couple minutes in so far but, about Vega’s VT2 I’ve played against Rugalitarian’s Claw enough and yeah it’s mostly a gimmicky trigger, but it’s not quite as cut and dry as explained. Like if you just sit and wait for the counter that’s not really the end of it on its own. If you try to walk or dash up to him he can still mash the kick follow up and if that hits you in the face he can go for a combo.

I know one time also Rugalitarian was able to like cancel part of the trigger and command grab me so there’s some finnicky shit with how it works.

Rest of the video is cool. Kinda weird that you’re missing counter hit hit confirms. I understand it’s online but even online I look for that yellow sign as an extra confirmation. If yellow comes up on screen that gives me extra confidence to go. Like I’ll stop myself or may screw up if I don’t see yellow sign, but yellow sign is always my cue even in a bit of lag.

Vega players are going to backdash and mash v reversal in corner. That’s what they do. Can’t blame them. They don’t have an EX DP or invincible super so they have to do stuff. Smart ones will block it out and counter poke/throw/wall jump out but that’s too much work. Most Vega players sweep because the average online player doesn’t remember to low block check his slide. Plus if you focus too much on low block checking his slide that lets them do other stuff any way if your reactions and mental play aren’t really in there.


#4657

I never played good Vegas but it’s always fun seeing the bad ones hang themselves with Trigger 2. You know they’re going to slide so you just block low. Slide is coming, they cancel into Trigger, Vega leans back and laughs manically only to get punched in the face a few frames after that.

Vega players should pick up Kolin or even Trigger 2 Ryu to get a feeling when to counter and most importantly, when not to.


#4658

Damage isn’t high in sf5.
Perhaps comparatively with what else is in the game… but it’s always weird to hear people talking about sf5 being high damage.

3s Chun cr.mk xx super does 45% or so. In sf5 it does like 350. It takes an entire round to get a super in sf5. In 3s you can get 2 in one round. Etc etc

In A2 level 1 custom combos can do 45% or so. Up to 80% for level 3 customs.

Sf5 is not high damage.


#4659

You didn’t read what I was saying. You have your own point, but it’s on the wrong argument.

The point I’m making and the one that makes sense is that the meterless damage you get is far above other SF games especially in situations or confirms where you wouldn’t be able to get that damage otherwise. Meterlessly/one bar landing something stray and going into damage in this game is far above what you can access in most other games.

If you land a deep deep jump in you can get the meterless stuff you get in this game in older games, but in SFV you can get that damage from the top of a jump which is legitimately stupid. You can’t just meterlessly land one button and get what you can get with Urien and Rashid in other SF games. Doesn’t happen. Especially SF3 and before.

That effectively is why health bars deplete fast in SFV though. You don’t run off 70 percent of the opponent’s bar with one combo into 1 to 3 bar super, but it’s it’s own thing. Everything hurts because almost everything that lands can lead to shit that hurts for no or one meter. V Trigger also adds huge globs of meter and stun dump just off an activation. Which all snowballs into why the rounds can end so fast.


#4660

I’m not really understanding what you are getting at? You are saying that CC meterless conversions are higher damage than older games? I mean you can cherry pick that metric but it seems like a weird one to be mad about whenall the other metrics are low damage.

People die semi fast in 5 because the entire game is infighting. Not because the damage is high or 1 meter damage is high… it’s really not.

Like a sweep punish in ST is like 150 damage or so. So “good” ranged damage was always a thing.

What makes games go longer is more projectile stuff. In 5 there isn’t a lot of projectile stuff so you constantly get matchups with no projectile character and that means 2 upclose characters basically swinging for the fences… even in a low damage environment that will lead to faster games. But this game still lasts longer than sf4 where you can get knocked down in the first 5 seconds then make 2-3 bad guesses and it’s over. The biggest factor for fats rounds in this game of sf5, is getting lucky with a couple heavy or medium starters into oki, into a stun or damage dump into a super. Other that that this game realistically needs AT LEAST 3 combos to win but that usually turns into 5 or 6 especially if no meter was used or a light cinfirm was used,

I guess for you you mean that high damage is accessed from further away via CC and v pop… I guess. Still seems like a weird metric since CC is at most 300 damage unless they are throwing super behind it, which tends to be rare.

It’s just another combo to me.


#4661

Yeah it’s the stuff Highland complains about. Not end of the world shit, but it is where the problems really are. 3S has a lot of scrambly infighting also, but unless you have that bar of meter and confirm it’s not going into most of what can happen in V.

Stuff from Rashid, Rog and Urien meterless off stuff that’s safe minus or plus on block goes into excessive damage and corner carry for little to no resource. The corner carry arguably being worse than the meterless damage. Lot of barely any resource stuff off one hit or one high hitting jump in that can run you towards a corner where it’s hard to play the game anymore. Rashid hitting you with the top of j.HK and going into the world and getting corner for whatever reason.


#4662

I don’t really believe in big hitstun jumpins myself, I didn’t grow up that way. But I don’t have huge problem with it either. It seems like something defensive players and zoners would complain about more because it’s a specific issue with getting past their kit. It’s funny because I talked about this shit years ago and people basically laughed and pointed their noses in the air. I also said YZ st.hp was solid as shit and people did the same. I also said motherfuckers walking out of jumpin range is stupid as hell. Maybe people will come around.

But beyond that what is this great thing Urien is getting form max range normals…you talking about st.hp… that move that was nerfed into oblivion and he literally can’t even get a combo off of if hit at max range? Like 8 out of 10 of my st.hp CC’s won’t combo into KD so I have to settle for dashup cr.mp xx fireball. Yeah… great stuff, fucking whiners.

I’m used to getting hurt from range. Whether it’s a fireball trap or low roundhouse custom combo or parry/focus my attack into super, or knock me down into an HKD from midscreen and turn that Into a half life mixup, the game has always had scary stuff to me. The designation that it no longer requires meter (but still requires specific things to happen) is negligible to me. But maybe I’m biased. Im the one throwing out CC and trying to get close, generally speaking. The games are less interesting for me if one guy does nothing but back up and give away space all day.


#4663

So, I thought that I’ve made an ultimate setup:

  1. ps4 connected to a tv, using tekken wireless stick on it, used for replays + training mode
  2. pc connected to a monitor, using my eightarc pearl (I love that stick), playing ranked

Idea was to watch replays and play in training mode while I am waiting for a ranked match.
And it does not work at all due to CFN being so slow, especially on ps4.
I am thinking about bying a capture card now…


#4664

I don’t really think SFV is a high damage game, for the most part I believe damage values and scaling are like SFIV but slightly lower (correct me if I’m wrong here). It’s a very momentum heavy game though, which makes it “feel” high damage. Shit spirals out of control quickly if you get hit.


#4665


#4666

So I’ve been going to my local a lot recently, all my opponents are either Akuma, Ibuki or Rashid, plus this one guy that plays super raggo Ed and wields EX upper like a Jedi wields the fucking force. Also this one guy showed up and played Kolin this one time.
Anyway, none of this people has an iota of neutral, they live on setplay and or oki. And they are doing fine, and that is just wrong. I somehow am the 2nd best player at the place, while being the lowest ranked and I’m only second because the best guy is ZJZ. I go there, play these guys who are all somehow platinum and unless I just don’t play Juri I am guaranteed to win 7/10 times.
So I understand high level play has Neutral, but in this game you can get pretty damn far without neutral.


#4667

It can specifically have things that are higher damage than SFIV because of the scenarios. Like post stun damage in this game especially off one hit with full resources get crazy. Minimum scaling for supers is only 50 percent so that’s where you get the retardo damage Abigail/Birdie stuff. They souped up on damage from trigger, hit you with long ass optimized combo into super and commentators go absolutely nuts after 50 minimum scaling on super.

In SFIV you can see stuff like post dizzy combo, they try to combo into something after and the scaling is just so crazy no matter what meter they dump after.

With SFV specifically in neutral you just have these things that convert in places that they don’t in earlier SF games into stuff that requires the resource of a Marvel game or less.

Yeah big hit stun on jump ins is stupid in general. It was in IV also and nobody should like that shit. It’s scrubby and gives too much reward for floating around the ground game.

The jumping issue is an issue for every character really. If you’re a rushdown or mid range poke character that is worse than Rashid then you’re dealing with Rashid’s better meterless/one meter neutral conversions that run you into the corner where the game is neutrally over. Then also dealing with him being able to just hop over your buttons into top of jump meterless/one meter dump into probably corner regardless of front or cross up. For zoners also big problem because they can’t match the offense of the characters that are best at this unless they’re Guile or Menat.

Yeah Urien’s s.HP got nerfed but if you’re complaining about infighting range then that’s where Urien is gonna be any ways. Plus charged s.HP is still really strong and gives it other new strong properties. That’s all Nemo and the other Uriens have done. Place regular s.HP better and run way more charged s.HP.

The stray stuff turning into huge damage for no resource would instantly make the game a lot better. The infighting problem is overstated especially when the match posted of Ibuki vs Rashid was very clean for that type of matchup. The super raggo S2 Laura vs Rog shit is mostly gone now.

Now you get more ranges of stuff and characters like Ryu/Sagat/Falke close to being relevant with the Guiles and Menats will have a lot more ranges matchups are being played at. Lot of fun to have the closer ranges fight the long people and those are pretty much my favorite matches to watch in this game. Both working for what they like to best .


#4668

Funny thing is that buffing Ryu and adding edgelord Ryu is Capcom caving in to the shoto love. If Ryu is actually a character in S4 then you’re going to see Ryu even more than already online.

Sagat was on top for a while, but I think it’s just cuz he’s tanky shoto any way. Once they dropped another Ryu and buffed Ryu he’s not needed as much.