SFV Matchup Chart. S2 Boxer vs Guile; Urien vs Gief; Ibuki vs Sim; Ryu vs Vega; Juri vs FANG


#1

Alright FINALLY going to get the ball rolling with this matchup chart thing. Wanted to wait for the new character to be revealed and generally get a chance to really think about the matchups for myself so I can have a starting point to conjecture with everyone else.

**Gonna lay some ground rules **here so it doesn’t turn into the SFV Lounge 2 like the balance thread did. If you MUST talk about the things below, please TAKE IT TO THE LOUNGE. It will not be tolerated here.

Please don’t get into stupid ass SFIV vs SFV wars or whatever wars you wanna get into. 3rd Strike vs SFIV lasted long enough, SFIV vs SFV doesn’t need to last anywhere near as long. Don’t bring up other SF games unless you just need to make a pure observance of something between the games. We don’t need pages of which SF game is great for you or which one is giving you growing pains and hurting your relationship with your friends and family.

Please refrain from overly positive or negative talk about the game in general. If SFV has saved your life, that’s great. Don’t need to know that. SFV is killing what makes SF fundamental for you? Great, don’t need to know that. This thread is for objectively talking about matchups and strategies for the game. It’s not meant to be a diary for your SF shit. That’s what the lounge is for.

**Please also keep large lists of your ideas for improvements for the balance to the improvements thread or the lounge. **Theoretical added balance changes generally just derail discussion on what is actually going on with the game and generally get into unnecessary back and forth conversations that don’t really explain the current meta. Bringing up a thing or two that needs to be touched up for a character is ok, but we don’t need long ass lists and discussions about things that aren’t within SFV’s competitive reality.

**
You have your warning. ** There will be a VERY LOW tolerance policy for the shit above. It derails threads like this way too easily so it’s not going to be put up with. General requests to fix things if you are messing up will be forwarded. If not, mods will have to get involved.

Other than that, hope to get some good discussion and hope we’ll be able to keep up with everything since we’ll be getting new characters pretty regularly throughout the life of the game.

I decided the games been out long enough and since there hasn’t been a lot of matchup based tiers going on about the game on different sites, might as well do it. Especially since people believe matchups bring out the overall strength of a character better than just conjuring strengths and weaknesses.

@LordWilliam1234 posted up a mock up chart of matchups that he will help us put together once everyone is done conjecturing.

**Basically what I’m looking for is volunteers to discuss and analyze the matchups for specific characters. ** People who play similar characters can have a meeting in their character thread or just PM each other and discuss the matchup numbers. Then compare the numbers with people who play the other characters and come to a hopeful common ground to make a list.

I won’t COMPLETELY disregard the DLC characters, although I think it’ll probably be easier to come up with DLC data for Alex and Guile than say for Boxer, Ibuki or Juri who are still really really fresh. The idea will be to come up with a list for the characters that have been around since launch or soon after launch and then we can always go back over the DLC characters as more time goes. Better to at least keep the discussion and matchup analyzing open for them them to just bar them from discussion I feel.

I’ll make a list of each character and people can post and volunteer to put their names up as as an analyst. When most of the list is filled with a decent amount of players people can conjecture and come up with numbers and reports on different matchups for their characters.

Alex: @Hawkingbird @serpentaurus

Balrog: @Plaid_Unicorn @TheCrimsonPugilist

Birdie: @Hawkingbird

Cammy: @Necrotrophic @Ramma @ShinLad

Chun Li: @“DevilJin 01” @Dime_x @Froztey

Dhalsim: @“Cheech Wizard” @Marmalade_Jones

F.A.N.G: @“Cheech Wizard”

Guile: @Pertho

Ibuki: @“DevilJin 01” @serpentaurus

Juri: @Trife88 @eiSH

Karin: @Trife88

Ken: @LoyalSol @LordWilliam1234

Laura: @OceanSalt @Los, @Tiers4Fears, @melflomil

M. Bison: @Plaid_Unicorn @Zeniside

Nash: @otter

Necalli: @Muttonman

R. Mika: @Trife88

Rashid:

Ryu: @Highlandfireball

Urien (N/A):

Vega: @Rugalitarian @Veserius @serpentaurus

Zangief: @LoyalSol @Mesenkomaha see @Slaynman @Marsh_D_Teach


#2

I don’t think I’m the most skilled or experienced Laura player here and I don’t have a keen feeling for the difference between a 5.5-4.5 and a 6-4 but I’ll try to help. Maybe @Los, @Tiers4Fears, @melflomil or @Maryokutai can back me up.


#3

We should clarify if we use .5 notation up front.

@Muttonman for necalli
@Ramma @ShinLad for additional cammy input


#4

@OceanSalt Ok cool. If you could conjecture with them or bring them here for some matchup numbers that’d be cool

I’ll clear that up. Generally I hear people don’t like the .5 stuff, but we’ll see if there’s other opinions.


#5

I don’t have any specific argument in favour or against .5 notations. The only thing I see is that at this stage of the game 6-4 might be the worst possible MU and if you can’t use .5 they will all be either 5-5 or 6-4.


#6

Whenever I see 6.5 I’m just like, how is that different than 7-3?


#7

Well yeah, it makes sense only if we don’t get past 6-4.


#8

There have been many people indicating there’s a few 7-3s.

I’ve seen respectable fangs say cammy beats him 7-3. I can see it.

There’s also gief sim which I’ve heard people I respect on both sides say it’s 7-3.


#9

Is it alright if I can also add in for Ken input? Pretty sure @MochaLatte would be good at this too.


#10

I’ve never done analysis before. Experience and how I feel about match-ups is all I can offer. I don’t think I can give a match-up a numerical value.


#11

I’ll let LordWilliam make a decision on the .5 or no .5 thing. Once we get confirmation we’ll really get things rolling.

Wherever you guys wanna discuss the matchups and then bring the info here is fine. Lord William and I can help work on final decisions for certain matchups if there is an issue.

Here’s the mock up list that he originally made. Of course it isn’t a realistic list.

http://i.imgur.com/NeY1VbW.png


#12

It’s hard for me to not use .5 it seems to make a difference in most matchups, but I will change it if need be

simply my own opinion

Nash vs Rashid 5.5-4.5
Nash vs Mika 5-5
Nash vs Chun Li 5-5
Nash vs Ryu 4.5-5.5
Nash vs Ken 5.5-4.5
Nash vs Cammy 4-6
Nash vs Vega 4.5-5.5
Nash vs Necalli 4-6
Nash vs Laura 4-6
Nash vs Zangief 7-3
Nash vs Karin 4.5-5.5
Nash vs Nash 5-5
Nash vs Bison 6-4
Nash vs Birdie 6-4
Nash vs Dhalsim 6-4
Nash vs Fang 5.5-4.5


#13

That’s fine waiting for confirmation. If we don’t go with .5’s we’ll just make those 5 5s.


#14

Dictator is last. This is realistic enough. #BuffBison #MakeBisonGreatAgain


#15

I’ll try giving my list for Ken

Advantaged: Mika, Dhalsim, Guile, Laura, Birdie, Rashid
Even: Nash, Chun, Cammy, Necalli, Zangief, Karin
Disadvantaged: Vega, Bison, Ryu

Unsure about: Fang, Ibuki, Balrog, Juri

You can list those as 6-4 for right now as I’m not completely 100% on these match ups being horrendous, but the ones I would say are the closest to a 7-3 is Ken vs Dhalsim and the closest to a 3-7 match up is Vega. Fang is one I’m not completely sure how to weight since Fang is my secondary at the moment and the amount of stuff I am finding with him in addition to what Xian is finding with him makes me thing we haven’t really seen that match in full just yet.


#16

Wow I am honored that you tagged me in this Jin. I haven’t been playing very much for tje past month so I will comment on my matchup thoughts, but they may reflect an older meta.

I’d love to see @Slaynman and @Marsh_D_Teach comment here and give their perspective.


#17

Well you’re the only Zangief main that I know on the forum and you play pretty well. Let’s see if the other guys help come through.


#18

I do not think I am skilled enough to provide analysis about Bison’s match-ups.


#19

Same.
I posted a list in the laura’s sub forum. We can discuss it there and we’ll come back with some numbers


#20

As I said previously, I kinda agree with most of LW’s numbers. The only ones I would change are:
Laura vs Nash - I agree with otter that this is definitely not in Nash’s favour. Basically every non-grappler character without reversal is highly abusable for Laura and Nash is no exception. His fireball game is nowhere near a threat as Ryu’s or Guile’s. I’d say it’s a 5-5 at least, but I could agree about the 6-4 for her.
Laura vs Chun - this might be a 3-7, if anything to stress that it’s her worst MU and the only one where you can feel real despair no matter who you’re fighting. If we don’t wanna go that far then Karin, Ken and Ryu should become 4.5-5.5.
Laura vs Cammy - not sure about the 5-5. Cammy wins the neutral hands down, her DP is always a real threat and if she decides to AA you consistently you’re kinda screwed. The only thing Laura has going for her are health, stun and a few ways to stop the divekick game. I’d like to hear the opinion of Cammy mainers about that.
Laura vs Vega - 5.5-4.5 or 6-4 (I don’t think any Vega mainer would disagree about that)
Laura vs Gief - 4-6. Unless you lame him out with fireballs Laura can’t have any real advantage here. With many of her normals and specials making her walk forward, whiffing any button will make her enter the L SPD range. The oki of the two characters is similar minus the overhead, but Gief’s grabs are faster, have much bigger range and deal more damage/stun so landing them and getting the setup that follows is much better for him than for you.