I’ll partake. I enjoy stuff like this. Just let me knwo when we discussing
Reserving my spot for Juri since she has my eye right now.
I still need to play a couple of match ups against people with a brain.
With how close match-ups are in this game I’m fine with using .5 notations, unless we start getting an influx of 7-3s (which I don’t see happening).
@TheCrimsonPugilist Looking for Balrog input
Ok cool. Since you’ll be making the final chart and others seem to be in favor of the .5 markings, we’ll go with it unless there’s a big backlash. I say let’s just hope people really think about the matchups before they go with the .5 stuff.
Is everybody else good with the .5 markings? ** If so post up and confirm.
Oh yeah, can’t forget @“Trouble Brewing” for Dhalsim. (Hope all’s well by the way, sir)
Personal thoughts for Ken if it’s going with the .5 system:
 R. Mika
Not 100% certain placements for me atm are Claw, Ibuki, Juri, and Laura.
Going to have to count me out of this; I haven’t touched the game since the last Xanadu monthly and been utterly burned out on it so my Necalli matchup knowledge is out of date.
I don’t really have enough MU experience w/ the rest of the cast as Balrog yet, but when I get enough, I’d be glad to leave my input on them.
Laura 6-4 (could be 6.5-3.5 but I’m not sure. I don’t see what laura has in this matchup. No dp, dive kicks are easy against her and cammy has better neutral)
Juri/ibuki (no idea)
Here’s my evaluations for Chun and Ibuki
Chun Li 5
M. Bison 6
R. Mika 5
Chun Li 4.5
M. Bison 5.5
R. Mika 4.5
You’re less likely to lose a 7-3 than a 6.5-3.5
more data points lead to a better understanding of whats going on.
With less data points you start saying characters have an “easy” or “hard” 6-4 and it’s just ???
@“DevilJin 01” I’d have @Windalfr on here for like 4 characters before I had myself on here once.
Honestly I can’t really give any match-up numbers, I’m constantly running into new shit everyday and a lot of what determines my success pretty much boils down to muscle memory.
I can give my analysis of Ken vs Ryu at least
. A lot of ryu’s spacing is predicated by ken’s st.hk, the threat of getting crush countered out of a fireball makes the ryu want to stand outside of the range completely or within the range where he can punish it on block.
. If we’re going purely by grounded normals/footsies, ken’s whiff punish game and the reward he yields will outclass ryu. Ken’s st.lk into DP can be practically applied to wreck ryu’s low forward and just about any whiffed medium button while ryu doesn’t have that luxury. Ken’s st.mk is also a strong deterrent for the ryu player to use normals.
. I noticed that against the higher level ryu’s they will rarely try to engage in a footsie battle and resort to their fireball game, I tend to get hit when the ryu is elusive and makes me think that he’s engaged in footsies when in reality it was a bait for him to back up and chuck plasma as a poke in my face again. It’s difficult for ken to contest the fireballs with his own… Actually my fireball game sucks so I can’t really say much here. What I can say is that the threat of ryu’s forward dash in combination with his fireball can be tough to deal with if you plan on trying to walk and block him into the corner. A lot of this is due to my playstyle, I’m basically playing him the same way I played Dudley in sf4 coming into sf5 with little shoto experience. I am willing to eat an anti air or two if I can make the ryu player more cautious with his fireball game to engage in footsies. I do believe that ryu’s fireball/forward dash gameplan will become less effective should capcom decide to fix the input delay.
. A lot of the meta also revolves around very tight spacial awareness, ryu’s jumping short can be especially weird since delaying a dp for the auto-correct will fail often should he go for the cross-up. I don’t have this habit down, but the way around it is to input an actual cross-cut motion to get the auto-correct. His jumping tatsu can make your dp whiff as well. This means that it’s crucial to develop the muscle memory/spacial awareness to know when to resort to cr.hp to anti air and when to cross cut. The corner game is awkward too, it’s important to be able to neutral jump air-to-air in order to prevent the ryu player from coward coptering out of the corner, which I admit I’m free to but at least I know it’s something to work on. Even with an auto-correct dp, it barely does any damage and you’ve given up the corner hence me plugging the air-to-air.
Summarized, ken can usually convert more out of the footsie and anti air game with the right play but ryu has multiple ways to throw the ken player off with burst movement and elusive jump ins. If I had to label this match with a number I would call it mostly a 5-5 for now.
I guess I should make it 6-4 to be more consistent.
And laura “could” be 6-4 as well. The other 6-4s should be 5.5
I’d say gief and birdie are clear 4-6 and ryu might be 5.5 in his fav
I wouldn’t say Ryu has to play far back since his s.LK punish Ken’s s.HK on block unless Ken spaces it absolutely perfect. I think Ryu punishes the s.HK better than almost anyone else.
The optimal range for Ken’s s.HK is at a range where it is pretty obvious he is going to s.HK.
I see Laura vs Cammy as a 4-6 but no more than that. The MU really isn’t that different from Ryu or Ken except for the better neutral and the lack of fireballs for Cammy. Her linearity and the low health/stun make the MU relatively unstressful.
The only 3-7 for Laura is Chun and potentially Guile (I’m not sure though, what can he really do besides throwing booms all day?)
I can throw some shit in here, I’m an Alex main. Just throw any matches I feel are tilted in favour of the opposing character.
Alex vs. Cammy, 4-6
Alex vs. Laura, 4-6
Alex vs. Mika, 4-6
Alex vs. Chun-Li, 4.5-5.5
Alex vs. Nash, 4.5-5.5
Alex vs. Vega, 4.5-5.5
Alex vs. Birdie, 4.5-5.5
Not many others I feel are bad enough to warrant mentioning. Those would be his worst IMO though.
My thing is… What does laura have to handle dive kick? On wakeup she’s pretty free too.
Sure cammy is linear but it doesnt matter in this mu. She always gets in for free and she doesn’t even need to be in if she doesn’t want to be.
When she’s in, cammy has great pressure. I don’t mind throwing her every time because I will get in again if I want to be in. But, eventually laura has to stop taking throws and Cammy’s frame traps and ability to blow up walk back/stand blocking is incredible.
I just don’t see what laura has to compete with. I’m not scared of Laura’s offense at all
I’ve never really done a matchup analysis chart before, I will give it a stab but just know I don’t know what I am doing.
Also I won’t do one for Balrog, I am def not the right person for that character. I’ve been focusing mostly on Bison so I can take a stab there but again I don’t think it would be much help.
Also if I might add there are far more knowledgeable bisons out there, they just stick to character threads. I guess I can start the discussion there and compile the list and bring it back here. I will be the liason.
@Froztey really 4-6 against Laura? What does it make you say so?
Well, for the same reason I don’t care about Cammy’s pressure because the best she can do is press buttons until she tries to throw, and unlike Laura she has no move that gets her into throw range without walking. She also has no overhead and if she gets too happy about frame traps you can just V-Reversal her and knock her down; then you’re in a situation when Cammy can either DP or not, and one bad guess may hit her really hard, unlike Laura who can still eat 1 or 2 throws and be fine.
As for your question against divekicks, Laura can use anyone of her AAs for the close ones and the fireball for the ones from afar, but most of the time you wouldn’t bother because she gets so little off her DKs. And if Cammy has no meter and she’s not in range for her V-Skill she really has no choice but to respect Laura’s fireballs.
Again, it’s really the neutral and the DP that make the difference, but the damage Cammy can deal for winning neutral is nothing compared to Ryu or Ken, which both also have much more stamina. Just look at K-Brad’s match against Akram, his long sequences of successful pressure got blown up each time by a few button presses, and when Laura’s in VT the stun can quickly stack up on Cammy.